Sharpening - I can't get it right

jhob

jhob

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John
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It's one bit of post production that I am really at sea with. I just don't know how much is enough or too little. I think I tend to err on the side of caution and have slightly softer images as sharpening artefacts seem really obvious to me but then only when zoomed in over 100%. I have the biggest problem with noisy images as the noise creates sharpening artefacts on even quite mild sharpening settings.

I use the smart sharpen filter in photoshop in a process of just fiddling with the settings until I get something that I think is acceptable.

I'd love to get sharpening mastered as at the moment it just feels like I'm fumbling around in the dark and hoping for a good result and then not even know ing if that result is a good one or not.
 
If you use smart sharpen..........try 100, 1.0, lens blur. on your large files.

when you then take them down to websize at 72dpi try again at about 50, 0.4 this should just sharpen up for the web.

This isnt a written rule it can change and lets face it I dont know what the hell Im talking about half the time!!!

Give it a go and see! :thumbs: You might just benefit from my years of fiddling!! ;) :naughty:
 
thanks Janice, will give it a whirl. I think the last settings I used were 65, 1.0 with lens blur and then I had a bit of a fiddle with the shadow and highlight bits too.
 
A good starting point for sharpening hi-res's for printing is to set amount at 100% and pixel radius = output dpi/200, e.g. if your output dpi is 300 then set radius to 1.5. This is generally a 'safe' sharpening setting.

Dont worry if your image looks a little noisey at 100% it should print OK. If it's too noisey when printed then it's either underexposed too much or over processed. Anyway, a little noise never hurt anyone ;)
 
Try the high pass method instead - I can't get along with USM personally.
1. Duplicate your flattened image
2. Go to Filter>Other>High pass
3. Raise the slider until the image is still mostly grey but you can see a light outline of your image - like a pencil sketch.
4. Change the layer mode to Hard light & adjust the layer opacity to suit :thumbs:
 
I am not a Photoshop user but Elements 4 is enough for me, as if it aint right in the camera playing about with in post processing very much is an admission you got it wrong at the taking stage and seldom improves on getting it right initially.

Unfortunately if using RAW you have to sharpen the image yourself due to the cameras softening of the image. As far as possible I like an image to go straight through the RAW converter at it's auto settings on to the Editor where I crop, resize, then enlarge to actual pixels and sharpen using unsharp mask set to around 80%/2/5, then just save for Web.


DaveW
 
jhob said:
It's one bit of post production that I am really at sea with. I just don't know how much is enough or too little. I think I tend to err on the side of caution and have slightly softer images as sharpening artefacts seem really obvious to me but then only when zoomed in over 100%. I have the biggest problem with noisy images as the noise creates sharpening artefacts on even quite mild sharpening settings.

I use the smart sharpen filter in photoshop in a process of just fiddling with the settings until I get something that I think is acceptable.

I'd love to get sharpening mastered as at the moment it just feels like I'm fumbling around in the dark and hoping for a good result and then not even know ing if that result is a good one or not.
Click to expand...

Sharpening is definitely an arcane art! Everybody has their own way of doing it, and it often differs to that used by others.

Experiment, and try and find a method you are comfortable with.

Good luck.
 
moomike said:
Try the high pass method instead - I can't get along with USM personally.
1. Duplicate your flattened image
2. Go to Filter>Other>High pass
3. Raise the slider until the image is still mostly grey but you can see a light outline of your image - like a pencil sketch.
4. Change the layer mode to Hard light & adjust the layer opacity to suit :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Tis the way I prefer to do it now. I prefer this technique as it allows me to select a mid grey and brush out any sharpening on areas I don't want it. I tend to set the layer mode to vivid light though.
 
Think I'm going to have to give this high-pass filter a try - thanks again for the pointers!
 
I am useless at sharpening but using Bicubic Sharpener when resizing for the web makes a big difference to how much is needed.

Michael.
 
If I'm taking a print from a full res file I don't bother sharpening, never found a need for it.

If displaying on the web it's just smart sharpen. I think my settings are 60% and 0.4 pix.
 
moomike said:
Try the high pass method instead - I can't get along with USM personally.
1. Duplicate your flattened image
2. Go to Filter>Other>High pass
3. Raise the slider until the image is still mostly grey but you can see a light outline of your image - like a pencil sketch.
4. Change the layer mode to Hard light & adjust the layer opacity to suit :thumbs:
Click to expand...


I use USM 10/25/0 and repeat where necessary.

I have heard to peeps on here mention high pass before, but didn't know what it meant. I have just tried it and got as far as the Grey with pencil outline. I am unable to find the layer mode to make adjustments in #4 above. Can someone give me a pointer to where to look:thinking:
 
Its at the top of your layer palette Gilly - will be a drop down menu that will say "normal" - right next to your layers opacity adjuster - just click & drop down to hard/soft/vivid light.
Just give me a shout if you have any problems & I'll post you up a pic of exactly how to change it :thumbs:
 
Should have said above, but my normal sharpening is USM with a radius of output resolution ÷ 200 (0.5 for web, 1.5 for 300dpi), threshold of 5, and then just adjust the amount to suit. Read that as a recommended approach a long time ago, so cannot remember where or why now.

Michael.
 
moomike said:
Its at the top of your layer palette Gilly - will be a drop down menu that will say "normal" - right next to your layers opacity adjuster - just click & drop down to hard/soft/vivid light.
Just give me a shout if you have any problems & I'll post you up a pic of exactly how to change it :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Aha! found it thank you. Done that, now what? it is still all Grey? Am I missing something here?:thinking: :shrug:
 
Gilly B said:
Aha! found it thank you. Done that, now what? it is still all Grey? Am I missing something here?:thinking: :shrug:
Click to expand...

Did you duplicate the layer? You should have 1 layer looking normal, and 1 layer with the high pass sharpening on. The sharpening layer should be on top.
 
Ewan said:
Make sure you've duplicated the layer, not just done it to the current layer, and then make sure you've lowered the opacity.
Click to expand...

You don't really need to lower the opacity. I find with the blend mode set to sofyt light, the effect is subtle enough.
 
Okeydokey. I've usually used hard light when I've tried it out, guess that's different :shrug:

I'll leave it to the experts :lol: :D
 
Thanks for the tip moonmike, just saved/improved a number of photos.
 
I had a go with the high pass sharpening tonight and came out with some really pleasing results. I've found with the high pass it's really important to have a relatively noise free image otherwise this gets accentuated more than with smart sharpening.

I did quite a few tests tonight and I generally preferred the high pass results to smart sharpen in most cases.

Thanks everyone for your help in this thread, I certainly feel that I have learnt a lot more about sharpening and have a handy new string to my sharpening bow to boot. Top banana!
 
Image - Mode - Lab Color
Then in Channels pallet elect the Lightness channel
Unsharp Mask
Than back to Image - Mode - RGB


With this method your supposed to be able to apply more sharpening without getting the halos

Taken from "The Photoshop CS book for digital photographers" by Scott Kelby
 
Apparently if you use smart sharpen it does away with the need to sharpen the lightness channel when using USM to avoid halos.

Smart sharpen is really the replacement for the unsharp mask filter and so should, in theory at least, be able to attain better results.

TBH I can't see much reason for using the USM other than for reasons of familiarity.
 
whiteflyer said:
Image - Mode - Lab Color
Then in Channels pallet elect the Lightness channel
Unsharp Mask
Than back to Image - Mode - RGB
Click to expand...

There is an easier way. After applying the USM go to Edit > Fade Unsharp Mask... and select the Luminosity mode. This means the filter will only be applied to the L channel without having to switch modes. You have to do it immediately after applying USM though as the option becomes unavailable once you perform another action.

I was so lazy I had recorded it as an action so it was just one button click after sharpening, though I am being won over by the high pass filter method now.

jhob said:
Smart sharpen is really the replacement for the unsharp mask filter and so should, in theory at least, be able to attain better results.

TBH I can't see much reason for using the USM other than for reasons of familiarity.
Click to expand...

Or you do not own Photoshop CS2 or CS3 and are using either an older version or a different application entirely.

Michael.
 
mij said:
Or you do not own Photoshop CS2 or CS3 and are using either an older version or a different application entirely.

Michael.
Click to expand...

OK Dumb question time
Are you saying that USM is "better" in something like CS2 /3
than Elements 5 for example?
 
Cobra said:
OK Dumb question time
Are you saying that USM is "better" in something like CS2 /3
than Elements 5 for example?
Click to expand...

In CS2/3 there is a new sharpening filter called 'smart sharpen'. It is effectively an upgrade on the unsharp mask filter, although the unsharp mask filter still exists in CS2 and 3.

I would imagine that the USM filter works the same across all recent versions of photoshop be it elements 5, CS2 or CS3.

I'd like to add that I haven't tested any of this, I'm just going on what I have read and been told.

Hope that helped anyway.
 
jhob said:
Hope that helped anyway.
Click to expand...

Clear as mud but thanks :D
Having just claimed my "student rights" ( OU course) and bought CS3 extended for the princely sum of less that £150 I guess when I have several hours alone I will start to investigate for meself :bang:
 
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