Shadows and grey

chrisvann

chrisvann

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Chris
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Hi all, I'm mainly into sports photography but recently bought a studio lighting kit. The problems I'm having is bloody shadows and a grey background. I have a white paper background but don't get a brilliant white finish, and I want to get it right without editing. Also I can't master shadows. Anyone else have these problems?
 
Hi Chris,
I presume you have bought a two light studio kit? If so there are a couple of options open to you, use one to light your subject and the other behind your subject to light the background paper. This however will restrict your subject lighting as there is only so much you can do with one light. Your second option would be to invest in another light or two to light the background paper from behind and either side of your subject with the two main lights to illuminate your subject. Your third option is to lighten the background on the computer which I detest, takes too long and never looks right. Last option, get creative with the lights and don't focus on getting the background a bright white, put all your effort into lighting the subject and see how it looks with a darker backdrop?
 
chrisvann said:
Hi all, I'm mainly into sports photography but recently bought a studio lighting kit. The problems I'm having is bloody shadows and a grey background. I have a white paper background but don't get a brilliant white finish, and I want to get it right without editing. Also I can't master shadows. Anyone else have these problems?
Click to expand...

Sounds like the inverse square law at work. Simply this - double the distance from the light to the subject, the light is reduced to one quarter, two stops less.

For a pure white background you need to light it separately, usually with two lights. Very evenly lit and carefully balanced to the front. It's not easy to do well. Lots of threads on this if you search.
 
GFPhotography said:
Hi Chris,
I presume you have bought a two light studio kit? If so there are a couple of options open to you, use one to light your subject and the other behind your subject to light the background paper. This however will restrict your subject lighting as there is only so much you can do with one light. Your second option would be to invest in another light or two to light the background paper from behind and either side of your subject with the two main lights to illuminate your subject. Your third option is to lighten the background on the computer which I detest, takes too long and never looks right. Last option, get creative with the lights and don't focus on getting the background a bright white, put all your effort into lighting the subject and see how it looks with a darker backdrop?
Click to expand...

I have a 3 light kit with two soft boxes. I am trying it at home and the room its set up in has yellow painted walls. Im assuming because I dont have a great deal of distance between the camera and subject, this will also give me problems along with the yellow glow. I will play around with the lights with out the soft boxes on. I need to know is it best to have a dark room with lights or a bright room with lights. Studio is not my thing but I would like to learn it. Thanks for you reply, much appreciated.
 
HoppyUK said:
Sounds like the inverse square law at work. Simply this - double the distance from the light to the subject, the light is reduced to one quarter, two stops less.

For a pure white background you need to light it separately, usually with two lights. Very evenly lit and carefully balanced to the front. It's not easy to do well. Lots of threads on this if you search.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I cant double the distance as im trying it at home. If thats what I have to do then i'll need to find somewhere to practice. thanks for you input.
 
Chris,

What has been explained here is the way that the inverse square law works - that every time you double the distance travelled by light, 3/4 or the light is lost (or at least is lost in practical terms), which is why your white background ends up as grey. Nobody has said that you need more space, although more space does make life easier and more space certainly makes it easier to get good results - so please don't assume that you need to find somewhere else to practice.

As for the other part of your post, there is nothing wrong with shadows. Shadows define the shape of the subject and help to add the third dimension. Good photographers are judged by their ability to create the right shadows, of the right depth, in the right places. Getting rid of shadows is easy, and if you want really bland results with no shadows just bombard the subject with light from large light sources, from all directions
 
chrisvann said:
Thanks. I cant double the distance as im trying it at home. If thats what I have to do then i'll need to find somewhere to practice. thanks for you input.
Click to expand...

Why double the distance? Though you do need a bit of space to get the background lights in and properly controlled.

Sounds like what you need is Lastolite HiLite back-lit background. Just the job when space is tight. Pricey though.

Edit: crossed post with Garry. I know what he means by using shadows to promote shape etc, but I don't think good studio lighting is necessarily about shadows. It's about control, with shadows or without them, or somewhere inbetween. Part of the white background look (that Garry hates ;)) is almost shadow-less lighting, and lots of 'wrap' from the background. IMHO it doesn't look right with any significant shadows, certainly nothing too harsh. The only people that seem to dislike this style of studio work are photographers who have done it a hundred times before ;)
 
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Actually I don't hate it at all, I just hate it when it's done badly, so hate most of it:)

A lot of the very best white background shots are fashion shots, with perfectly crafted shadows. Dynamic images that just jump off the page and grab the emotions and create a sense of want...

Although a lot of white background shots are shadowless, shadow and white backgrounds are not mutually exclusive.

Today I was involved (although only right at the very edge, with no real input) with the production of a video shot against a pure white background with beautiful shadowss
 
Hi Guys. Thanks for you replies. I'm no photographer but for the last 7 years I've been addicted to sports photography something very different from studio portraits. I can use shutter speeds and aperture but when it comes to f stops and light I'm nowhere near clued up enough . I like shadow and with outdoor portraits I've used them well but when I've got this studio set up its like I'm starting all over again, completely different. I find shadows there and I don't want them, do I use soft boxes, are the lights too close, is the room too dark, and I use my wife and son for practice but they get bored after a while ha ha. I'm sure I'll figure it out or just give up. I'm not trying it to make money I just wanted to try something new. Thanks again Chris.
 
Chris,

Firstly, the amount of ambient light in the room makes little or no difference when you use flash.

Seondly, the larger the light source (relative to the size of the subject) the softer the lighting will be, so if you want minimal shadows with a gradual transition from light to dark, and soft shadow transfer edges, you use a softbox close to the subject.

Use just one flash head, fitted with a softbox, get it close to your subject and experiment with the position until you're happy with the direction and type of shadow. Then add either another light or a reflector to fill in the shadow areas, this will reduce the depth of the shadows.
 
chrisvann said:
Hi Guys. Thanks for you replies. I'm no photographer but for the last 7 years I've been addicted to sports photography something very different from studio portraits. I can use shutter speeds and aperture but when it comes to f stops and light I'm nowhere near clued up enough . I like shadow and with outdoor portraits I've used them well but when I've got this studio set up its like I'm starting all over again, completely different. I find shadows there and I don't want them, do I use soft boxes, are the lights too close, is the room too dark, and I use my wife and son for practice but they get bored after a while ha ha. I'm sure I'll figure it out or just give up. I'm not trying it to make money I just wanted to try something new. Thanks again Chris.
Click to expand...

Make sure the soft boxes are around 45deg to your subject and, slightly higher then your subject, this will make the shadow longer and out of the frame. Not sure what the others are talking about. Over complex for what you want to know I think.
 
Thanks very much guys. I'll get there. Lots of info there. To be honest I've not used and external flash and I've been shooting in manual to a avoid the internal flash. I have a remote flash but is way to bright and I imagine that's due to the lack of distance. Much much different to football or motocross ha ha
 
chrisvann said:
Thanks very much guys. I'll get there. Lots of info there. To be honest I've not used and external flash and I've been shooting in manual to a avoid the internal flash. I have a remote flash but is way to bright and I imagine that's due to the lack of distance. Much much different to football or motocross ha ha
Click to expand...

I wish I understood that... External flash is way too bright? What the hell is it you've got??? I use 500w/s lights at around 3/4 power to get f/11 on the subject (so as to kill all ambient light) What lights have you got?
 
Hi Andrew. As Ive said Im into Sports photography and Im no photographer, im a Dad that started taking shots of his son on a football field,then nephew at Karate and so on. Our kids are involved in football,motocross,karate,Rugby and others. Ive never done studio, so I bought a kit and thought id have a go. I do alot for the sports clubs in my area for the kids to raise money for trips and equipment etc. Last year we made a load of calendars and they sold them to raise money for their own clubs, its that sort of thing that I enjoy. However this xmas they want to do a studio shoot for the calendars and as you can imagine this would cost them a fortune to make nothing out of it. I bought the kit early so I have time to practice. The kit is three neewer 300DI Lights with softboxes and reflection umberellas, it wasnt exspensive at all, but Id hoped it would do the trick for the kids. It also has a remote flash that attaches to the back of one of the lights and on the camera, then I have to sync the two, but I havent found the right balance, its either way to bright or to dark. its just practice but I though id ask on here for tips. Thanks
 
Right...
It's actually much easier to do than to explain but let's have a go.
1. Your camera must be set to manual, not to any of the programme modes.
2. Set your shutter speed to 1/125th and set the ISO as low as it will go.
3. Set your lens aperture to f/8
4. Using just 1 light with softbox fitted, set the power on that light to full
5. Place that light wherever you want, but a good starting point is immediately in front of the camera and fairly high. This will create shadows on the faces that are in a fairly pleasing place, and shadows from the subject on the background will be low and probably hidden behind the subject. If you want the shadows to be softer, move the light closer to the subject. If you want the shadows to be harder, move the light further away from the subject
6. Take a test shot.
7. If the picture is too dark, change the aperture to f/5.6, as a starting point. If it is too light, change the aperture to f/11 as a starting point. If it is still too light, turn the power of the flash head down a bit - all adjustments to the brightness are carried out by adjusting the lens aperture and the flash power.
8. If you can't control the shadows as much as you would like, add a second light. Place it immediately behind the camera and fairly low down. Adjust the power of the light to give the effect you want.

That's about it really, and it should give you a good starting point, then all that you need to do is to practice and experiment.

Important safety warning: Never leave the lights on if you are not in the room.
 
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Gary thats fantasic i'll give it a go. It doesnt have to be perfect like I said its just for the kids, but when I do something I like to give it my best.

Thanks very much for you help.

Chris.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Right...
It's actually much easier to do than to explain but let's have a go.
1. Your camera must be set to manual, not to any of the programme modes.
2. Set your shutter speed to 1/125th and set the ISO as low as it will go.
3. Set your lens aperture to f/8
4. Using just 1 light with softbox fitted, set the power on that light to full
5. Place that light wherever you want, but a good starting point is immediately in front of the camera and fairly high. This will create shadows on the faces that are in a fairly pleasing place, and shadows from the subject on the background will be low and probably hidden behind the subject. If you want the shadows to be softer, move the light closer to the subject. If you want the shadows to be harder, move the light further away from the subject
6. Take a test shot.
7. If the picture is too dark, change the aperture to f/5.6, as a starting point. If it is too light, change the aperture to f/11 as a starting point. If it is still too light, turn the power of the flash head down a bit - all adjustments to the brightness are carried out by adjusting the lens aperture and the flash power.
8. If you can't control the shadows as much as you would like, add a second light. Place it immediately behind the camera and fairly low down. Adjust the power of the light to give the effect you want.

That's about it really, and it should give you a good starting point, then all that you need to do is to practice and experiment.

Important safety warning: Never leave the lights on if you are not in the room.
Click to expand...

Thats good advice :)
 
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