Settings for Misty days

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fbxiii

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Steve
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Hi. I have had a new lens for my Sony A200 DSLR for Christmas and am trying to get some wildlife shots for practice. It is quite misty and grey outside and my pics aren't as clear as I would like. The lens is a Tamron 70-300mm.

Can anyone advise on the best settings for a misty and dull day please?
 
With the mist/fog there isn't much light around so it is difficult to take pictures with a slow telephoto lens.

At 300mm you need to keep the shutter speed above 1/300s if you're hand holding the camera, your minimum aperture will be f/5.6 so you'll need to bump up the ISO to get enough light. However, doing this will give you more noise and less detail...

Something that will compound all this is that the Tamron lens isn't very sharp (especially at 300mm, f/5.6) so even if you get the settings right things might not be as good as you'd hope.
 
Thanks for the advice. What ISO would you recommend? I am using a tripod with remote to minimise the shake.

The lens does seem to give a soft image at long range. I have a choice between the Tamron and Sony 75-300mm lens. Would the Sony be better?
 
You could try stopping the lens down to say f/8 which could improve the sharpness but then you'd need to lower the shutter speed and/or up the ISO - it's all a bit of a balance I'm afraid. When I had an A200 I was happy to go up to ISO400 if shooting RAW and applying noise reduction afterwards, maybe 800 at a push.

Don't know about the Sony lens I'm afraid but I very much doubt it's worse than the Tamron which is renowned for being soft.
 
I'll give it a go. I am waiting for a bird to appear :lol:
 
Misty days normally mean low contrast so you may want to increase the contrast, either on your camera or afterwards in PP.
If you can post some photos you will get better advice as people can see what the problem is.
 
If you can see the mist then so can the camera. The camera/lens won't magically make it disappear. The best thing you can do is to get closer to reduce the amount of mist between you and the subject. Other than that a bit of contrast enhancement might help, but really WYSIWYG.
 
Here is a shot that has been cropped down to fit in the gallery.

 
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fbxiii said:
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In this image the light is flat, flat, flat. No sparkle. No contrast. No highlilghts and shadows.

It is also underexposed because the camera has seen that huge expanse of misty grey and made sure it looks middle grey in tone. That's what cameras do unless you instruct them otherwise. As a result the bird is too dark. Whether shooting in manual mode or an autoexposure mode you would do well to brighten the exposure by at least +1, maybe a little more. I see you shot in manual mode with spot metering. What was the meter telling you? Where were you metering from? How big was the bird in relation to the whole frame before you cropped?

Personally, with the light like that I would not even bother with the shot. But that's me. You need to work with the light, and maybe add some of your own. Here's a shot under snow filled skies. I set my exposure carefully and threw in a little on camera flash to pep things up....

20101219_115335_3922_LR.jpg


Here's another, aiming more up towards the sky. Note how much brigher my grey sky is than yours. Even then I think I should have gone a little further. Once more there is flash to light the bird and to put a catchlight in the eyes.

20101219_115232_3917_LR.jpg




Off topic : It also looks like you have a dust bunny on your sensor.
 
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I am pretty new to photography so am unsure what settings I should use! Im not really sure what Spot metering is either.

There was a lot of sky in the original shot. I could have got closer but I would have scared off the subject :)

Here is another picture, taken at around 12 metres away.

 
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I've just looked up dust bunnies and checked a few more pics. You could be right!! I'll give the lens a clean and see if that clears it.

Thanks for all the advice everyone btw. :)
 
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Spot metering isolates a small area of the scene - usually a small circular area in the centre - from which to meter, which means the metering is not affected by tones around the edges of the scene. If you were spot metering from the bird then the exposure should have brightened up, unless the bird was too small to be of significance in the frame.

In your case you were setting the exposure manually, which means it's down to you to decide what the exposure should look like. If all you did was to aim randomly into the scene and to adjust settings until the meter needle was centred then I'm afraid you need a better understanding of how to meter and set exposure.

If you look at the shot you've just posted above then you could use the spot meter to meter just from the white door, or just from the bird table, or anything else you were specifically interested in. Whatever thing you choose, when the meter needle is centred it will try to record that object as a "middle tone". Your white door would come out too dark. Your dark bird table would come out too bright. You need to figure out how bright those things should appear in the photograph and adjust the camera setting so that white looks white rather than grey, and so on. The white door should be at perhaps +2. The bird table at around -1, the bricks at around +0. Experience will allow your estimations to become more accurate.


Dust bunnies are dust on the sensor. Dust on the lens is unlikely to show up in your photographs.
 
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Hi Steven

It looks more like dust on your camera's sensor than dust on your lens, plenty of advice on here on how to clean it, just use search for Sensor cleaning.

Enjoy your Sony
 
I have been swapping between my old and new lenses a lot so its probably got it in that way. I'll have to go and get the stuff to clean the sensor. I'm only messing around anyway so they dont really matter for now :)
 
They'll show up less if you use faster apertures such as f/5.6, f/4 etc..
 
tdodd said:
Spot metering isolates a small area of the scene - usually a small circular area in the centre - from which to meter, which means the metering is not affected by tones around the edges of the scene. If you were spot metering from the bird then the exposure should have brightened up, unless the bird was too small to be of significance in the frame.

In your case you were setting the exposure manually, which means it's down to you to decide what the exposure should look like. If all you did was to aim randonly into the scene and to adjust settings until the meter needle was centred then I'm afraid you need a better understanding of how to meter and set exposure.

If you look at the shot you've just posted above then you could use the spot meter to meter just from the white door, or just from the bird table, or anything else you were specifically interested in. Whatever thing you choose, when the meter needle is centred it will try to record that object as a "middle tone". Your white door would come out too dark. Your dark bird table would come out too bright. You need to figure out how bright those things should appear in the photograph and adjust the camera setting so that white looks white rather than grey, and so on. The white door should be at perhaps +2. The bird table at around -1, the bricks at around +0. Experience will allow your estimations to become more accurate.


Dust bunnies are dust on the sensor. Dust on the lens is unlikely to show up in your photographs.
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I'll have a look at how it works on the camera and give it a go :) Like I said I am pretty new to photography and am a complete newbie when it comes to zoom shots.

I love this macro shot with the Tamron.

 
Here's an example probably very similar to your shot of the bird. I set the exposure by spot metering off the grey, cloudy sky and manually setting the exposure so that the meter needle was at +3. This made the sky as bright as possible, without losing any detail by overexposing too much, and allowed me to capture plenty of detail and colour in the bird itself. Pushing the exposure over to the right of the histogram is a common technique for capturing as much tonal range as possible, especially in the darker regions, without losing anything at the top end. Once again I have used some flash to brighten the bird further. It's unfortunate that I was at 1600 ISO at the time, but the camera was set up for shooting BIF and as this was really a throwaway shot I couldn't be bothered to chage settings. I was more curious to find out what the bird was than to record a prize winning masterpiece.

20101229_133331_.JPG
20100618_184327_9675_LR.jpg
 
Nice :) I have been experimenting a bit and have got some more shots. I'm still unsure of how I adjust these settings on my camera. I'm going to try and find the manual :)



 
I see with these shots you are also using manual exposure, although now with matrix metering, but clearly the exposures are off. Yet I see you are changing the settings from shot to shot. Just exactly how are you interpreting the meter reading? What drives you to choose the settings you have chosen? With that shot of the blue tit there is no reason for it to be as poorly exposed as that unless you are simply not paying attention to the meter readings at all.

Does the Sony have some sort of bizarre exposure compensation in manual mode, as I believe Nikons do? Maybe you have that set and it is throwing off your metering.
 
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Hi all, My first post !

I'm glad someone has raised the subject of this gloomy weather, I recently upgraded to a 500d from a powershot pro1

The world has been in b&w ever since....first with the snow...then with this blumin low light

Snow shot's and clear days are fine...but do get boring after a while, especially when your wanting to see some colour output from your new camera.

I was looking forward to the weekend off to try a bit more, but this gloom is terrible for taking pics in, as suggested keeping things short seems to be the only option.

Dont give up on the Tamron though, i too have one, and have seen some cracking pics taken on them at mid range...when the light improves

Here's a couple i managed today, not with the tamron, with a 'nifty-fifty' that lets plenty of light in

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I still can't figure this out :(

What is the best mode for the camera to be in?

I am locking the exposure (AEL) from the sky and then comparing it to the dark background. If the sky is at -2, then do I adjust the compensation to +2?

Is the aim to get the subject colour in the centre of the meter?
 
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Steven, I'm afraid I don't understand your description of what you are doing. The EXIF from your photos says you are using manual exposure. I guess perhaps that using AE Lock is interpreted as setting the exposure manually.

Anyway, if you are using an autoexposure mode and metering and locking exposure from an area of the scene that is brighter or darker than a mid tone then you need to dial in some exposure compensation before locking the exposure. Just how much depends on just how much brighter or dimmer than a mid tone the area is. Bright things require a positive adjustment. Dark things require a negative adjustment. Mid toned things do not need an adjustment.

If you meter from a cloudy sky or from bright snow then try setting the EC to +2. If you meter from a clear blue sky (not hazy) then try 0 EC. If you meter from green grass or foliage try -2/3. If you meter from a black dog or horse or coat then try -2. These are guidelines, not absolutes. Try a test shot and review both the picture and the histogram. Make sure you have a good tonal balance and that your histogram is not climbing up the left hand edge or right hand edge. It is not a problem for a peak to appear very close to the edge, but if it is actually piling up at the absolute edge then you have a problem. An exception would be when shooting the moon on a really clear night. Then you would expect the sky to register as complete black and to create that big clump on the left hand edge.

Take a look at this article for an explanation of metering areas of a scene and the histogram....

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/histograms1.htm
 
Leave it on auto metering - then crank in around +1 Exposure compensation, see how that turns out. Or turn it to spot metering and just point at the bird and take the picture without any exposure compensation and you should find that exposes the bird best.
 
No, I dont really understand either :lol:

What is the best setting to use? e.g. Auto, M, P, etc....

I think I am out of my depth on this one!!!
 
If you use manual exposure then you will have complete control over the results and the ability to easily fine tune your exposures. You will also need to understand how to interpret the lighting and reflectivity of the subject/scene you are shooting. Follow the link I posted above. It might be hard going at first, but I think it is the quickest way to learn.

To get you started, try using spot metering and set a manual exposure by metering green grass and getting the exposure meter to read 0. Now aim the camera at other areas of the scene and see how the meter responds. It will show you how much brighter or darker other things are in the scene relative to the grass. You might find that bricks of a house read at 0 as well, or that a rain soaked wooden fence might read at -1, or that your own outstretched palm might read at +1 1/3. The cloudy sky might read at more than +2. Try metering from different coloured cars and see how a black car meters vs a silver one or a white one. If you want to take a shot then your exposure should already be quite good, based on the setting for the grass. You should not need to adjust anything. If you do need a tweak then it should not be by much and once you have it corrected you should be able to shoot many more pictures without changing settings until/unless the lighting changes.

So long as you grasp the basic premise that dark things should meter at -ve values and bright things at +ve values you can begin to develop your own skill at estimating these things with greater accuracy. Have a practice, go and shoot some stuff and if you have any more questions then post back here with unedited example pictures with the EXIF intact and I or someone else will try to help.
 
Thanks for that Tdodd. It has put it into a better context now :)

I have been attempting a few more shots and have found my cam has an exposure bracketing function. I've been using this too :) I am trying to shoot away from them blooming trees!

This is about the best I have got so far though and has been brighness/contrast tweaked slightly...



 
That's certainly an improvement. However, if you look at the histogram for the image as posted you will see that you have a big bunch of pixels climbing up the extreme left hand edge - total blackness with no detail at all - yet a huge gap at the right where you are not making use of the dynamic range the camera offers.

20101231_102107_.JPG


Bearing in mind this is after your adjustment I think you could/should have set an exposure at least 1 stop brighter. Even if 1/250 was your minimum safe shutter speed an f/5 your widest available aperture it would have been better to shoot at 800 ISO than to underexpose at 400 ISO and boost later. Here is your adjusted shot with a further +1 boost to exposure....

20101231_104424_.JPG


There is more visible detail, but also more noise. This is detail that could have been recorded more cleanly with a brighter exposure to begin with.

It is better to get the exposure right in the camera and not to have to brighten it later with software. If you do brighten in software you might see more noise in the image and you will have lost some fine tonal detail in the darker regions. If anything it is better to expose a little bright and then dim it down rather than to shoot it dark and brighten. Of course, a perfect exposure in the first place should be just fine. :)

Bracketing is obviously one solution to coming away with the prospect of a better shot, but not really the best solution to advancing your photography. You still need to work at getting the exposure right in the first place, and using the in camera histogram to help you.

If you go back to shooting this scene (it doesn't matter if the bird is there or not) try spot metering off the wall in the background and lock your exposure with exposure compensation set to +2. See how that turns out. If the light is as poor as it was in the scene above then set ISO to 800 to begin with.
 
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Ok, I think the penny has dropped. I havent got much time but just took a few snaps.

The AEL button wasn't set to lock when it was pressed which is where I was getting confused because it wasnt zero-ing the meter! I have just found a setting in the menu to have the button toggle on/off when pressed, which keeps the meter at zero and the arrow now moves relative to the colour! :)

Here are the results. Thanks for all the advice, it has been extremely helpful and I have certainly learnt a few things!

Anyway Ive got some things to do in preparation for tonight

Happy New Year everybody! :clap::nuts:



 
They're still massively underexposed, you need to expose for the subject, not the sky.

I would forget about the AEL button and use Aperture priority mode and center weighted or spot metering.

edit: oops had the laptop screen on dim so they looked darker than they are, they're still underexposed though...
 
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I am still struggling with this exposure thing. In this shot, where is the best place to meter from to get the best results? This tree is only 5-8 metres away.

 
fbxiii said:
I am still struggling with this exposure thing. In this shot, where is the best place to meter from to get the best results? This tree is only 5-8 metres away.
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As things stand you're a bit fracked. You have the sky as a strong backlight and the bird is very poorly lit. Look at the light and shadows on the tree. You're trying to shoot into the shaded side of the bird with the bright sky behind. Personally I would not bother to take the shot with lighting like this. I'd choose a better time of day or a shooting position that gave me at least some light on my side of the bird. Failing that I'd use flash to provide my own light to compensate for the bright sky behind.

Assuming you really want this shot and do not have a flash then you're going to have to let the sky blow out. It's not like there is any interesting detail in the sky. However, if you go too far you may see other issues cropping up like sensor bloom, flare or chromatic aberrations. I see you already have purple over many of the twigs. I suggest you spot meter off the bird at perhaps -1/3 or -2/3 and see how it turns out. I think you'll struggle badly to make a great shot from this lighting situation though.

I had a little fiddle with it to try to bring up the levels on the bird, without blowing the sky, and also increased saturation to try to liven up the colours. I've also increased the size to emphasise the problem with the aberrations. It doesn't look great and look at the appearance of the twigs. Some have turned green and others purple. I didn't add the colouring. It was already there in the photo. This is chromatic aberration at work....

chaffinchintree_DPP.JPG


If you could throw in a large dose of flash it would be a better solution than this fairly extreme adjustment, but like I say, it's not the sort of lighting situation (for this sort of subject) that would have me releasing the shutter.

EDIT : Here's the closest example I have of a shot like yours, but here I used flash to put more light onto the bird while leaving the background untouched. Even so I underexposed the shot a bit and have had to adjust, but at I think I balanced the light between subject and background reasonably well.....

20101219_115232_3917_LR.jpg
 
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I'm not desperate to get this shot, but that tree is where most of the birds rest. I'll try and get it from another angle if possible. It is understanding the best place to meter from and how I get the histogram to be more central rather than peaking at the edges as you have explained in previous posts. The tree in my garden is getting a lot of the sun but no subjects seem to want to land in it!!
 
Steven, it's not about getting the histogram centralised. The histogram should reflect the scene and the distribution of dark and light tones within it. It might be best if centralised, but not necessarily. A snow scene will usualy be well over to the right. A night scene will be well over to the left. A scene with lots of dark and light areas, but little in between will have a histogram with peaks on either side and a big dip in the middle. Histograms are no more right or wrong than the speedo in your car. They are just a tool to measure something. A speedo won't tell you if you are approaching a corner too fast. It will simply tell you how fast you are going. A histogram won't tell you if your exposure is right or wrong. It just shows you how the tones have been recorded by the camera. You have to determine if the histogram looks right for the scene. It's your judgement that's important.

Look at this shot and the corresponding histogram. If the histogram was "in the middle" the shot would be severely underexposed....

20101128_145356_.JPG


Here's a scene with lots of dark and lots of bright content, but little in the middle. The histogram reflects that. The important thing for this shot is to get the histogram over to the right hand edge, without clipping important details, in order to capture as much data in the shadows and with as little noise as possible. It's then down to editing to adjust the levels for the best visual appeal.

20101119_101344_.JPG



Back to your garden and tree..... The birds will come if you put out food. Try to keep the food out of shot but place it near a convenient perching place. The birds will settle there for a moment before making for the food. Set up your camera for the perching position and adjust exposure for the lighting at that point. Here is an example where I did exactly that....

20100104_132113_1600_LR.jpg
 
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I have got food out. Peanuts and seed in feeders and just seed on the table. They just seem to prefer next doors trees to mine!! Im off out into the garden now to see if I can nail some shots....
 
Good luck. It's beautifully sunny here today, but very cold. Keep warm but try not to move about as this will disturb the birds. If you can sit very still and have the camera on a tripod it should help you to get a little closer and save you having to move much at all.
 
These are the best i have managed so far. I think they are improving, although probably a bit misty still :)



 
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