Selecting around distant trees

zedbra

zedbra

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Geoff
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I've always had a problem with trees, particularly distant blurry ones as below. If they are close and clear then I'm ok, but otherwise I struggle. This is a nearly 100% crop of some distant trees in a photo that I'm trying to edit in order to have it printed around A2 size. The sky looks terrible so I plan to make that a light blue, but the problem is with these trees. When looking at the whole picture on the monitor after editing it looks great, but zoom in a little and it looks awful. I'm aware of the various 'simple' selecting methods as I use them all the time, yet I cannot make this area of the photo look any good. However I select the sky, the outer parts of the trees still end up selected and however I change what's selected and what isn't, the result still looks very poor. I've tried doing it with a more advanced method, by setting a threshold level on a different layer. The result is still just as poor though.

My alternative is to remove the trees from the shot - However, I can't seem to make it look very natural.

Any advice of ways to do this (beyond the basic please) would be very much appreciated. I'm using Photoshop Elements 4 by the way (will soon get V7).

2872847276_f84f30950b_o.jpg
 
This is the same problem as you get trying to select hair and it is a common problem. There are numerous techniques and searching for "hair select photoshop" will highlight them. My personal favourite is to blow the subject up and use the eraser tool on bits of the sky. If the sky colour contrasts enough with the tree/hair then you can also look at the "colour select" or "magic wand" options. I only know about photoshop so some of these might not exist in elements
 
zedbra1.jog


This took 60 seconds using colour select (without changing any options) then selecting the eraser and running it over the selected area then unselecting the area and running over any obviously missed bits again.

Not perfect but if you take more time you get better results.
 
The easied to way to do this without a lot of fiddly messing about is to draw a mask like this...

2872112073_bbac9e7780_o.jpg


Don't worry about being too accurate as long as you get all the sky bits within the mask, but keep the mask tight around the house. Then feather the mask by about 12 pixels and it will look as shown.

Select a suitable blue colour, then go to the fill tool - set it at 100% tolerance, but very low opacity around 12 or less.

Apply the fill tool within the mask till you have a blue you like.

Youi can alter saturation, contrast etc, until youre happy with the blue.

Remove mask and save. Bob's your auntie!
 
Thank you both, cowasaki and CT for your help and examples. I'll firstly try the mask option, assuming I can work out how to do a mask in that way in Elements (I roughly know), as the result you've got CT is impressive. Your example cowasaki isn't as accurate although I understand it was just very quick. I'm just doing some other editing and then I'll get on and try that.

Thank you both again for the time you've spent on this. :)
 
You want the freehand mask tool if Elements has one. You just basically click around the image with your mouse to create the mask.
 
CT said:
You want the freehand mask tool if Elements has one. You just basically click around the image with your mouse to create the mask.
Click to expand...

It doesn't seem to have that option, or anything to do with masks. I've used masks before though I'm sure. There is a free ad-on I've just found that I can install, so I'll try that and hope I'll be able to work the rest out.
 
If all else fails download a free trial version of Paint Shop Pro. ;)
 
CT said:
If all else fails download a free trial version of Paint Shop Pro. ;)
Click to expand...

Good point. :) I'm reading through help with simulating masks in Elements at the moment so I hope that'll work, and if not, I'll next do as cowasaki suggested. :) I've already tried the colour select and magic wand tools in Elements though and they just don't do the job well enough unfortunately.
 
Make a copy of your photo and using Image>Adjustments>Black&White or Desaturate, convert it to monochrome. Using Image>Adjustments>Levels pull the right hand and middle sliders together until you've got a high contrast image like this:

mask1.jpg


Using a black brush, paint out the window frame and any other whites in the main image other than sky. Now using Select>Colour Range, select the whites on the image and move the fuzziness slider until you've got the best match. Hit OK. Now you have an accurate mask of the skyline. Hide the B&W layer, select your main image and delete the sky. Make sure your main photo is named Layer 1 or Photo, but not background, otherwise you won't get a transparent sky. Put your new sky under the main photo and job done. Only takes a few minutes and it's much better than the Magic Wand ot trying to cut out leaves by hand.
 
iball - Thanks for that. Since yesterday I've spent a long time struggling with the other methods, trying to do a mask, and having the result look terrible. I got so frustrated with it that I've now erased the trees! I would have had to cut some of them off on the right side anyway when I re-sized it for the print, but I didn't know what size and resolution was needed yet. So I've cut from the house to the right, and deleted the trees on the left (just copied the sky). It doesn't look great but is a lot better. I'm frustrated that I couldn't make it look like CT had it as that was perfect. Maybe using your method I would be able to manage that iball but now I've worked on it a lot more in other ways, I don't think I will. I may well try what you suggest though just for my own satisfaction, as this is a problem I'm often having when trying to perfect my photos so a solution that works for me would be good to have. So thanks for your time, I'll give it a try. Maybe I'll still use it in the main photo, seeing as most the work I've done in it is with adjustment layers. :)

Cheers,
Geoff.
 
iball said:
Here's one I did this morning as an example using that method.

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=68159&page=5
Click to expand...

That's fantastic mate, very very nice, and I can see how it's worked well with the trees. I've managed to make trees look ok before just using the usual selecting methods but the trouble with the photo I'm working on now is that with those distance trees, many of the branches are almost the same colour and brightness as the sky. Anyway, I'm keen to try your method and shall do so today at some point.
 
I'm working through this but there is no "Colour Range" option in Elements 4. Maybe it's there in Elements 7? I'll be getting that fairly soon. Ok for now I'm giving up, it's driving me mad. I'll stay subscribed to this thread though and when I have similar problems I'll look here again.
 
Sorry, I've never used Elements, just Photoshop. This masking technique is actually something I use in After Effects for sky replacement when editing video. After Effects and Photoshop share many tools. If you struggling on a deadline, send me the image and I'll cut it out for you. PM me for me email address.

Bill
 
I appreciate that Bill, thank you. For this image I'm ok, as deleting the few bits of tree left after cutting looks good enough. I can't afford Photoshop but will look more closely at the features of Elements 7 before upgrading, as masking properly seems a pretty important thing I'm going to need more and more. I've tried various alternative ways of doing it in Elements 4 but it just isn't as good, as has become clear this time. If I ever manage to sell my photos the first thing I'll buy (apart from a new lens!) is the proper Photoshop.
 
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