Secondhand Trading Advice

GeForce Junky

GeForce Junky

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Chris Ratford
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Hi

I'd like a few opinions on a situation I'm in. I swaped a compact camera and cash for a dslr and lens (done via post, hes hundreds of miles away). We agreed a value on each of the items we owned, so I made up the rest in cash. The guy is not not happy with the condition of the compact camera (has a small scratch on the lens I did not notice, but was not affecting the photo quality when I last used it. As far as I am concerned, it was producing brilliant photos, but he recons its soft). He now wants to swap back, but I have offered him an additional amount of cash (Decent market value (what we agreed it was worth before the trade) for the camera plus the postage cost of him returning it.) when he returns the camera to me. I also offered him more cash to reflect the 'reduced value' of the camera, but he seams adimant he doesn't want it.

I do not want return his camera, as; a) the lens is rare and I don't think I could find another one easily b) felt I got a good deal c) have already brought accessories for the camera d) have already scratched the screen on the dslr so won't be able to return it in its original condition.

Am I being unfair in expecting to not return his camera and expecting him to accept a cash alternative. Legally wise I don't think he has a leg to stand on, and under the distance selling regs (which I don't even have to follow as I'm a private seller) a cash sum of market value can be used to replace an item that is returned following a part exchange.

Cheers for the help
Chris
 
Its a grey area, but you both agreed a price and deal etc.

You have been reasonable in offering a compromise, you have done all you can.

You dont have to return the camera to him, you have offered a compromise, his loss.
 
The rules are simple, he did the deal on your description.

If an item in a trade is overdescribed, any of the parties concerned should be able to reverse the deal.

The fact, in this case, that you are offering compensation does not mean he has to accept.
 
TBH- I think your going out of your way to help him by offering him the money back + paying the postage.
 
I think that if I had done a deal with someone and then found out that he forgot to mention a scratch on the lens, regardless of how this affects image quality or not, I would be pretty ****ed and would also want my things returned. You have already managed to scratch his camera too?

I understand you are offering him cash on top but I think you should explain you have scratched his camera too and if he still wishes to swap back then you should honour it.

That is just my opinion of cause
 
I would agree that the buyer has the right to have his items returned. If he's not happy with what he has recieved i think you should return his items as per the terms/price of origonal deal. If i sold items that the buyer was not happy with i would let them return them no problem. How long was itbefore he told you he wasn't happy? Just wondering as you had already gone and bought accessories.
 
He did tell me he was not happy within half a day of recieving it to be fair. The scratch I put in the screen is annoying, don't know how it got there, but I have used it for 1500 photos already, I wasn't expecting on having to give it back :'(
 
GeForce Junky said:
He did tell me he was not happy within half a day of recieving it to be fair. The scratch I put in the screen is annoying, don't know how it got there, but I have used it for 1500 photos already, I wasn't expecting on having to give it back :'(
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Could you not try and get a deal on the lens itself with, if it's rare and well priced, before returning the other bits, then buy another body??
 
I'm with the buyer on this one, a scratch on the lens should have been mentioned.
 
-Rob- said:
Personally I'd be more concerned about how easily you keep scratching your camera equipment. Be more careful with it!!
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:agree:
it's down to personal honour really and if you didn't mention something like a scratch on the lens then that's not a great thing. I would be a bit miffed if I were him too I think
 
Don't think there's much he can do, but it does seem you have abused his trust.

You sent him a camera which was in worse condition than you told him.

You damaged "his" camera even though he left it less than a day to tell you about the damage to "yours".

I don't think any solution now will keep you both happy :thumbsdown:
 
I think that your only honourable way forward is to take back your compact and pay him the monetary value that was claimed for it plus his postage costs in returning it to you.

To knock up 1500 shots with his camera when he complained of the damage within a day of getting the compact implies that you ignored his complaint and continued to use his camera (damaging it in the process).

If I were him I would be thinking small claims court and/or police complaint if you don't come 'good'. You have potentially obtained goods by deception.

Edit: I re-read and I'd missed that he isnt satisfied with cash to the value of your compact. If I were you I would return his kit. I can understand why he isnt pleased.
 
for me it seems that the bloke has realised his kit was worth more after swapping and got cold feet..which happens. But for me once the deal is done and goods have changed hands then the stuff is yours (to scratch and smash if you so wish!!)

If i were you id stick to your offer, and give him cash that the compact is worth.. your not robbing him or screwing him over, your just applying good old fashioned sense.

What if you sold the Dslr on the same day to a 3rd party, as you would be entitled to? would he demand it back?
 
who? said:
To knock up 1500 shots with his camera when he complained of the damage within a day of getting the compact implies that you ignored his complaint and continued to use his camera (damaging it in the process).
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Agreed, that does seem a bit off. Personally, due to the unmentioned scratch, I think he is within his rights to ask to swap back...after all, had he known the scratch was there beforehand he may well have not wanted to swap.

I hope you get it sorted as best as you can though :)
 
Make your mind up, its either a scratch on the lens or screen?

In my opinion

If you scratched the camera then youre offering him what you think his cameras worth is cheek. I wouldnt be happy at all and come on, neither would anyone in this thread if they were the other guy. Plus adding 1500 clicks after he told you is unbelievable.
Plus he says its scratched which isnt what he bought so you could have mis-lead.

On the other hand he now says its soft, his defence would have been better without mentioning it.
 
who? said:
I think that your only honourable way forward is to take back your compact and pay him the monetary value that was claimed for it plus his postage costs in returning it to you.

To knock up 1500 shots with his camera when he complained of the damage within a day of getting the compact implies that you ignored his complaint and continued to use his camera (damaging it in the process).

If I were him I would be thinking small claims court and/or police complaint if you don't come 'good'. You have potentially obtained goods by deception.
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No, there's nothing to support a complaint of obtaining property by deception, because there's no evidence of wrongful intent or dishonesty. Forgetting to disclose the scratch on the lens of the compact was careless, but not criminal, unless you can prove it was deliberate and for the purpose of deceiving the other party. Just about impossible, I'd say. The Police would regard this as a civil dispute, and I don't think they'd get involved.

The best, and the most honourable solution, is to cancel the original transaction and put both parties back into the position they were in before it took place. Return the DSLR, and cash, and offer to pay for the damage to the screen and any expenses, and get your own kit back.
 
The question is: when did transfer of ownership occur? I would suggest when the items were passed over the counter of the Post Office, not after the buyer had had a few hours to scratch things (anyone considered the buyer scratched the lens himself?) and decide he wanted to back out. The guy here who scratched the camera was scratching HIS camera, it's his, he can do what he likes with it.

This deal sounds so complicated something was bound to go wrong.

It seems to me the other buyer is being rather demanding for what he should have realised was a very risky deal. Without knowing exactly how the items were described it's difficult to say, but remember... caveat emptor.

As for the police being involved... :shake: I imagine a scene reminiscent of that in The Big Lebowski, one keen young cop and an old hand regarding the timewaster with undisguised contempt. It's a private matter, see a lawyer, not a cop.

Now let's reminisce.

"What was in the case, sir?"
"Papers. Um... business papers."
"And what do you do, sir?"
"I'm... um... unemployed."
 
Hi Chris,

Whilst I firmly believe you should cancel the transaction I have one slight doubt in the back of my mind.

If you valued the equipment and the other party does not want to use that valuation for you to 'buy back' your camera, every part of me is asking why?

It could be a scam! You send the DSLR and cash back and he keeps the lot! You then have nothing.

How far is this guy from you? You say hundreds of miles but I would be keen to meet up if at all possible.

Alternatively call him by phone and discuss the situation. But, do it NOW! The longer you leave it the worse it will become.

Best regards

Chris
 
martsharm said:
The question is: when did transfer of ownership occur? I would suggest when the items were passed over the counter of the Post Office, not after the buyer had had a few hours to scratch things (anyone considered the buyer scratched the lens himself?) and decide he wanted to back out. The guy here who scratched the camera was scratching HIS camera, it's his, he can do what he likes with it.

This deal sounds so complicated something was bound to go wrong.

It seems to me the other buyer is being rather demanding for what he should have realised was a very risky deal. Without knowing exactly how the items were described it's difficult to say, but remember... caveat emptor.
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Most sensible post regarding this yet, this is now far to complicated and people could be judging the OP quite wrongly here, it has to be considered that this person scratched the lens himself, i'm also suspicious of him saying the photos now look soft, i would leave it as it is and if he wants to take legal action let him, i doubt very much if he would get anywhere.

G2EWS said:
It could be a scam! You send the DSLR and cash back and he keeps the lot! You then have nothing.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
PS

Caveat Emptor - Let The Buyer Beware!!!

Chris
 
GeForce Junky said:
We agreed a value on each of the items we owned, so I made up the rest in cash. The guy is not not happy with the condition of the compact camera
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Well it looks like 2 buy/sell deals have been done. Both of you had sold an item, and the cash difference was paid to him. It sounds like you are entitled to keep the dSLR, but you have to give a refund + postage for the compact. He may not be happy with it but there is not much he could do except to ask for the money back.

And be CAREFUL with everything you do, and the way you describe things. You can get in a very big trouble like this (scratch a Ferrari, break an ancient Chinese vase, etc).
 
dcash29 said:
Make your mind up, its either a scratch on the lens or screen?
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There are two cameras involved here, one a compact and the other a DSLR, the compact has a scratch on the lens and the DSLR has a scratch on the screen
 
G2EWS said:
Hi Chris,

Whilst I firmly believe you should cancel the transaction I have one slight doubt in the back of my mind.

If you valued the equipment and the other party does not want to use that valuation for you to 'buy back' your camera, every part of me is asking why?

It could be a scam! You send the DSLR and cash back and he keeps the lot! You then have nothing.

How far is this guy from you? You say hundreds of miles but I would be keen to meet up if at all possible.

Alternatively call him by phone and discuss the situation. But, do it NOW! The longer you leave it the worse it will become.

Best regards

Chris
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I would be VERY Suprised if this is a scam. I bought my 2.0TC from Kevin and i didn't have a problem with him. item was exactly as described and i would be happy to deal with him again in the future
 
Rovers_Andy said:
I would be VERY Suprised if this is a scam. I bought my 2.0TC from Kevin and i didn't have a problem with him. item was exactly as described and i would be happy to deal with him again in the future
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Hi Andy,

Are you saying this is a fellow TP member or someone known to us?

If so, then I agree with you. If he has a track record and history with us then I apologise for the statement and would not have made it if I had known.

Best regards

Chris
 
I think the buyer is Kevin H on here

Kevin H said:
I'm with the buyer on this one, a scratch on the lens should have been mentioned.
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i only spotted it the 2nd time i read the thread though, easy to miss. Fair play for making a public apology aswell. :thumbs:

Andy
 
it is not the sellers camera anymore TBH. he scratched his camera.

bobiscuit said:
Don't think there's much he can do, but it does seem you have abused his trust.

You sent him a camera which was in worse condition than you told him.

You damaged "his" camera even though he left it less than a day to tell you about the damage to "yours".

I don't think any solution now will keep you both happy :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...
 
Rovers_Andy said:
I think the buyer is Kevin H on here

Kevin H said:
I'm with the buyer on this one, a scratch on the lens should have been mentioned.
Click to expand...

i only spotted it the 2nd time i read the thread though, easy to miss. Fair play for making a public apology aswell. :thumbs:

Andy
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:shrug:

I don't see anywhere in this thread where Kevin H says he is the buyer or where the OP names Kevin H as the buyer.
 
errrr on the quote from Kevin H where he says "im the buyer on this one" surely thats a bit of a giveaway no?
 
Rovers_Andy said:
errrr on the quote from Kevin H where he says "im the buyer on this one" surely thats a bit of a giveaway no?
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Should have gone to Specsavers.....he says "I'm WITH the buyer on this one"!

Hope this gets resolved whoever is involved!
 
LOL im sorry thats what happens when i havent had my morning coffee. Keith please accept my apologies
 
Cheers for all the help guys. This deal was done via a mtb forum, not on here. The guy lives in Scotland, I'm in Gloucestershire, so meeting is out of the question. I know he is who he says he is and its not a scam, but he could easily have scratched the lens himself. Unfortunatly I did not take any pictures of the camera with the lens out, so I have no proof of its condition when I sent it. The original email he sent me was very very brief and vague, so I continued using the camera the next day and put 500 biking shots on it and the scratch on the screen. (It is only very small, but if hes moaning about the G9 then I can't afford to return this and then him try and get money off me to repair the screen) He does seam very reluctant to keep the G9 as I have said I'd look into repairing it, and also replacing it with another second hand G9 in good condition (If I could find one) and he hasn't really replied to those offers.

The actual deal was my G9 and £360 for his 450D (10,000 shutters, reasonable condition) and a Tokina 11-16mm F2.8, hence me not want to swap back! I had the G9 for sale for £230, I said I thought the lens was worth £300, he agreed, I offered a low value of £270 for the 450D hoping to get a good deal, we finally settled on £290, so I paypal him the cash and we both posted the cameras the next day. The deal was done over a very short period of time over googlechat, so maybe he's realised it was a poor deal but didn't have time to think about it at the time???

If anybody does have a G9 they wouldn't mind selling, (but it must be in VGC, and have a MINT lens) then I am happy to pay a very good price for it, because I can just ask him to return my G9, send him the new one and pay for postage and he surely cannot complain about that. It will leave me a bit out of pocket but whatever happens I'm going to be out of pocket, so this way he cannot complain about the condition of the 450D.
 
You're making it sound a bit better with the extra details. You really need to get to the bottom of what he wants. If he's unhappy with the condition of the G9 then he should be happy with a replacement. However if he's decided that he doesnt want a G9 after all then I'm not sure what you do. Only you can know if the G9 was really in good condition or if it was not. Get the G9 back and pay him cash to the value of the G9 - then he has effectively just sold, then sell the G9 elsewhere. I've no idea what the real value of a G9 with a scratched lens is.

A quick look on ebay and 450D body only are selling around the price you agreed. I can only see one used tokina sold at £370.
 
I'm not getting this anymore, it seems a simple situation is being made complicated, a deal has been done, as far as the OP is concerned he sent him the camera without a scratch on the lens, the only mistakes that have possibly been made is they never exchanged photos of the items first, which at the end of the day is tough as it could of easily been the other way round, if the other person has now decided he doesn't want a G9 that again is just tough he's stuck with it, he should have thought it through before doing the deal, the deal is done that is it, end of story :shrug:
 
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