secondhand 500mm f4

garymicheal

garymicheal

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hi ppl im considering buying a second-hand 500mm f4 lens for birding mainly from hides my question is I have a 100-400 mk ii plus 1.4 mkiii extender how much better is the 500mm over the 100-400 mm dose anyone have similar shots taken with both lens ? thanks in advance
 
I'm no expert but as far as I'm aware a prim lens will be optically better than a zoom lens.
 
I have both, and sharpness-wise etc there is not that much to choose between them, but the 500 comes into its own as the light levels drop, and is obviously better at isolating the subject - f/4 v f/8.
 
As Sue pointed out, 2 stops of light difference at almost the same focal length. Different AF groups available. 500 + 1.4 still gives you 65 point AF whilst your down to 5 Point with the 100-400 + 1.4

100-400 is a great lens and works well with the 1.4 but the 500 is a great lens also and with 1.4 also performs extremely well.
 
A 600mm f4 is better still. I'd go for that, then you have 100-400mm, 560mm, 600mm and 840mm. You could even get a 2x to make a massive 1200mm reach.
 
I had 2 of the 500f4 Nikons but sold them and got my 600f4 which is way better/sharper but a good bit heavier as well. I have a 300f2.8 with 1.4tc so no point in keeping the 500f4 lenses as they are to close in focal length. The 600 and 1.4tc is fantastic and lets you photograph even distant objects with ease.
 
I agree with the others, small birds the 600mm is the way to go, but its heavy..! Just over 12lbs heavy.. Any other wildlife you can sit outside their circle of fear and keep taking photos.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
I had 2 of the 500f4 Nikons but sold them and got my 600f4 which is way better/sharper but a good bit heavier as well. I have a 300f2.8 with 1.4tc so no point in keeping the 500f4 lenses as they are to close in focal length. The 600 and 1.4tc is fantastic and lets you photograph even distant objects with ease.
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well you must have had s$%t versions of the 500 f4 because i have also owned these lenses and cannot see how you could compare sharpness between these two lenses.. i still use the nikon 500 f4 afs if i need any more reach i use the nikon v1.
 
mark richards said:
well you must have had s$%t versions of the 500 f4 because i have also owned these lenses and cannot see how you could compare sharpness between these two lenses.. i still use the nikon 500 f4 afs if i need any more reach i use the nikon v1.
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Both decent versions but cant compare to the 600 ii now have. Look at the reviews as most people suggest the 600 is sharper. Mark have you owned a 600?
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Both decent versions but cant compare to the 600 ii now have. Look at the reviews as most people suggest the 600 is sharper. Mark have you owned a 600?
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yes mate, but not the modern type, but find it hard to believe that it could be sharper, I use my 500 with a 1.4 all the time, and cannot fault the performance or sharpness.
and probable like yourself, tried many set-ups over the years, or mine could be one of them keeper lenses that you dont find much often..
 
Mark, i kept both my 500f4 lenses for a few years and performance was very goid indeed with little between them in sharpness( both afs1 versions). It wasnt until i tried this 600 that i noticed the contrast and sharpness to be a bit better. Many reviews reported the same thing as well however i would still drop down the focal length to another 500 to help with travelling etc.
 
Gary, I've just ordered a 100-400ii but not received it yet, but do have a 500mm f4is (the first version). If you want a couple of RAWs from it I'll send them to you if you PM me your address. Your profile says you use a 7d2, is that the camera you want to use it on?

If you're thinking of handholding (which I do almost all the time) then you can discount the first version 600mm f4. My 500mm is hand holdable, and both the newer versions can also be used hand held - with proper technique and limited times obviously.

I've never really used my 7d2, and am about to sell it, but I'll see if I can dig out some examples for you to look at before you spend your cash.

If it's the mark 2 500mm f4 you are after then it's a no-brainer if you have the cash - see this website for examples - http://www.dancadphotography.com

Mike
 
pooley said:
Gary, I've just ordered a 100-400ii but not received it yet, but do have a 500mm f4is (the first version). If you want a couple of RAWs from it I'll send them to you if you PM me your address. Your profile says you use a 7d2, is that the camera you want to use it on?

If you're thinking of handholding (which I do almost all the time) then you can discount the first version 600mm f4. My 500mm is hand holdable, and both the newer versions can also be used hand held - with proper technique and limited times obviously.

I've never really used my 7d2, and am about to sell it, but I'll see if I can dig out some examples for you to look at before you spend your cash.

If it's the mark 2 500mm f4 you are after then it's a no-brainer if you have the cash - see this website for examples - http://www.dancadphotography.com

Mike
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Hi Mike thanks for your reply I'd really like the 500 mkii but I'm reluctant to spend that sort of money unless I could drop on a mint secondhand one how much you wanting for your 500mm pm if you prefer condition age etc cheers gary
And yes I have two 7d mkii which I will be using it on I also have a 1.4 extender mk iii
 
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I have teh 100-400 ii and 500i, have used the 600i and 500ii. My comments are:
  1. 600 i is NOT handholdableunless you are Schwarzenegger in his prime!
  2. 500ii is much lighter and 'better' than the v1 - easily handholdable
  3. 500i is handholdable for short periods of time BUT you must have great technique otherwise IQ will suffer
  4. I cannot carry teh 500 all day, the 100-400 yes
  5. 500ii is fine if you can manage with only 1 arm and leg
  6. They are diffrent and teh prime will give better results in lower light,better bokeh however it is best used (by me) on a tripod.
  7. Have you thought about renting teh prime when you need it?
Good luck
 
Hi Gary
Might be moving my 500mm MK I on,great condition and you are local so no problem bringing it to you to check over if you are interested in it.
 
donetello said:
Hi Gary
Might be moving my 500mm MK I on,great condition and you are local so no problem bringing it to you to check over if you are interested in it.
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Hi and thanks I'd certainly been interested in seeing it want to pm me asking price age etc cheers
 
well I bit the bullet and bought a second-hand 600mm f4 mki cheers guys:) can anyone point me in the direction of a reasonable tripod and head for it please I don't mind second hand I would also like a replacement foot that fits straight onto the head any ideas guys
 
garymicheal said:
well I bit the bullet and bought a second-hand 600mm f4 mki cheers guys:) can anyone point me in the direction of a reasonable tripod and head for it please I don't mind second hand I would also like a replacement foot that fits straight onto the head any ideas guys
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Welcome to the sore back club. A big beast of a lens but when you get used to it then im sure it will be fantastic. Great with the 1.4tc as well. Enjoy.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Welcome to the sore back club. A big beast of a lens but when you get used to it then im sure it will be fantastic. Great with the 1.4tc as well. Enjoy.
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Thanks much bigger than I expected just need to find a tripod and head and plates or replacement foot now
 
For that sort of lens you'll want one of the gitzos. They'll set you back a pretty penny though!
 
garymicheal said:
Thanks much bigger than I expected just need to find a tripod and head and plates or replacement foot now
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I use a Gitzo 5541LS tripod, very solid, goes high and a good match for the 600f4 lens. I use a Benro GH2 for the headwork which has lasted well but at some point i will get hold of a Wimberley. If I'm walking with it i use a large backpack or use an air strap, this is a heavy duty strap that has an air filled padded section to stop the strap cutting into the shoulder and spreads the pressure area.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
I use a Gitzo 5541LS tripod, very solid, goes high and a good match for the 600f4 lens. I use a Benro GH2 for the headwork which has lasted well but at some point i will get hold of a Wimberley. If I'm walking with it i use a large backpack or use an air strap, this is a heavy duty strap that has an air filled padded section to stop the strap cutting into the shoulder and spreads the pressure area.
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I'll have a look cheers I've sorted a bag just for lens and body there's so many tripods etc it's a mine field I've got a good redsnapper tripod for normal lens but this beast is something else [emoji15] lol
 
garymicheal said:
well I bit the bullet and bought a second-hand 600mm f4 mki cheers guys:) can anyone point me in the direction of a reasonable tripod and head for it please I don't mind second hand I would also like a replacement foot that fits straight onto the head any ideas guys
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I like the Really Right Stuff replacement feet, but pricey.....
 
Not been here for quite a while but I though I would share my most recent purchase, namely a Gitzo GT4542LS.

I have been using the Gitzo GT3530LS for my 600 F4 (and later 800 F5.6 L IS) lenses for 6+ years but I spotted a link to this offer on another forum so I thought yo may be interested. Basically Gitzo UK seem to be having a bit of a clear out and are selling some Systematic tripods at VERY reasonable prices - FAR cheaper than Sirui/Feisol etc. Have a look at these two:

http://www.gitzo.co.uk/systematic-series-3-carbon-tripod-long-3-section-eye-level-gt3532ls

http://www.gitzo.co.uk/systematic-series-4-carbon-tripod-long-4-section-eye-level-gt4542ls

Yes those prices are real and even include UK postage + they are direct from Gitzo - my 4542LS arrived this Tuesday and £374.98 was the total cost! The 3532LS will certainly do a great job of supporting your 600 F4, I use it's predecessor and it is just fine. The 4542LS is a bit chunkier and a little taller in other words better but a little heavier - worth it I feel, probably why I bought it!

At these prices many models are already out of stock but these two appear to be still available so DO NOT delay - if you want a Gitzo get it now! There is no better alternative in the UK - RRS are just too expensive here.

As to heads? I use the Wimberley 2, if you can snag one of the above Gitzos then spend your change on the Wimberley - it is the best gimbal that I have tried to date.

Happy shopping!

P.S. I don't bother with an aftermarket foot - never seen the need.
 
johnf3f said:
Not been here for quite a while but I though I would share my most recent purchase, namely a Gitzo GT4542LS.

I have been using the Gitzo GT3530LS for my 600 F4 (and later 800 F5.6 L IS) lenses for 6+ years but I spotted a link to this offer on another forum so I thought yo may be interested. Basically Gitzo UK seem to be having a bit of a clear out and are selling some Systematic tripods at VERY reasonable prices - FAR cheaper than Sirui/Feisol etc. Have a look at these two:

http://www.gitzo.co.uk/systematic-series-3-carbon-tripod-long-3-section-eye-level-gt3532ls

http://www.gitzo.co.uk/systematic-series-4-carbon-tripod-long-4-section-eye-level-gt4542ls

Yes those prices are real and even include UK postage + they are direct from Gitzo - my 4542LS arrived this Tuesday and £374.98 was the total cost! The 3532LS will certainly do a great job of supporting your 600 F4, I use it's predecessor and it is just fine. The 4542LS is a bit chunkier and a little taller in other words better but a little heavier - worth it I feel, probably why I bought it!

At these prices many models are already out of stock but these two appear to be still available so DO NOT delay - if you want a Gitzo get it now! There is no better alternative in the UK - RRS are just too expensive here.

As to heads? I use the Wimberley 2, if you can snag one of the above Gitzos then spend your change on the Wimberley - it is the best gimbal that I have tried to date.

Happy shopping!

P.S. I don't bother with an aftermarket foot - never seen the need.
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I've ordered the very same tripod I think it was you who advised me on another forum
 
Probably was me!

Unfortunately I think that they may have all gone now!
 
If your money tight as you've probably handed over lots of cash have a look at the manfrotto gimbal head, it get very good reviews in its price bracket.

http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-...roduct=11050&gclid=ci-r4ns74nacfrw3gwodrjakuw

Shame you didn't go with the 500mm f4 much more practical lens, used mine all day handheld photographing everything from Motorsport, aviation to wildlife, it's a fantastic lens still sharp with the 1.4x TC, it just takes some getting used to
 
Had a 393, yup it's excellent value for money, but I look at the Wimberly as an investment...at least that's what I tell the trouble and strife!!
 
I have a few tripods, including a couple of big Glitzo's one CF the other metal - they are big tripods heavy to carry around all day, if you are moving about - good if you are in one spot - but in a hide with a 600mm f4 you would probably be happier with a bean bag - outside the hide obviously a tripod

I travel quite a lot and have the Gitzo 1 - 4 piece - the Mountaineer - small, strong and light but really really steady - you never notice that you have it - it will take a 600mm f4, if you are careful - (proviso - Gitzo probably do not recommend that the Mountaineer is stable for the 600mm - I don't know)

I when through the LensMaster, 393 and Wimberley

Chose a Gitzo and Wimberley if money is no problem

The 600mm f4 is a very heavy beast, (as has been said) - if that is your main type of photography, it is good with and without the 1,4TC ............. but it is a heavy set up, expensive and takes a little time to get used to - I use mine quite a lot, but only when I'm "planted"

I prefer "primes" to teles ....... I take shots of mainly birds

I have the new 300mm f4 PF and a 300mm f2.8 VR v1 with the three Nikon TC's .......... if I am out shooting with the 600mm f4 I always have another camera with the 300mm f4 PF VR and the range of TC's , with me........ I tend to take more shots of birds with the 300mm f4PF + 1,4TC or 1,7TC + the D750 than I do with the D810 and 600mm f4 ........ because of the flexibility ....... obviously walking around it's the 300mm PF + 1,7TC, (usually) and Mountaineer tripod with a lightweight "normal" head

I can do without the 600mm f4 if I am out shooting birds but I cannot do without a 300mm lens plus the TC's

What i am saying is that the 600mm f4 is quite a specific, specialised lens

IMHO with any expensive lens, 500, 600 or 800mm you will only take "good" detailed shots if you are "near" (the correct distance from) your subject - that is really important, otherwise you will be disappointed with most of your 600mm shots

Price - buy used Gitzo tripods - they do last forever
 
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Bill, not sure what you mean about the specific distance and being dissapointed. Can you give examples of what you mean as looking at it objectively if you have the subject at a distance which doesnt suit your lens then you either have the wrong lens on or need to adjust your distance, neither of which is a fault with the lens.A 600 isnt suitable for birds within 3m or so but every lens has issues similar and in proportion not just the 600. Any examples to help me understand your meaning? Cheers.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
Bill, not sure what you mean about the specific distance and being dissapointed. Can you give examples of what you mean as looking at it objectively if you have the subject at a distance which doesnt suit your lens then you either have the wrong lens on or need to adjust your distance, neither of which is a fault with the lens.A 600 isnt suitable for birds within 3m or so but every lens has issues similar and in proportion not just the 600. Any examples to help me understand your meaning? Cheers.
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Hi Mike - I hope that the following is clear,

Specifically - What I mean in this instance is that it is no good expecting the 600mm to solve your distance problems as you need to be near, 6 to 10 metres to get a good shot ........... it is no good expecting to get "good" shots if you are some distance away

Generally - MFD - I have done quite a few experiments with 300mm and 600mm lens, taking shots of small birds, - a Blue Tit is less than 5" long and if you check this against the MFD of long primes you will see that there is a similar ratio of distance to the bird to the size of crop needed to get a close up "in focus" image. IMHO it is 15% to 20% of the image

the MFD of the Nikon AF-S 600mm f/4D IF-ED II is 5.6 metres .... the nearest you can get to a Blue Tit with a 600mm lens to get a sharpe image is 6 metres and at 6 metres with a bird that is less than 5 inches long, to get a "close up" image you will therefore have to crop say 80% of the image away

Example - an extreme
D750 + 600mm f4
1/1000th – f6.3 - ISO1250

11% Crop - i.e. 89% of the image cropped away ............ I was 7 metres away from the bird

Blue_Tit_close.jpg


The comment was made to me with this image that i was throwing away a huge amount of data by not getting closer - my point was that I could not get any closer as I was 7 metres from the bird, (OK maybe I could get a metre closer), ........... because of the MFD of the lens

It was also said that the bird was over sharpened, (which I indicated it was when I posted the image and also that I felt that I had pushed the crop as far as it could go), but this is not relevant in the "getting closer" debate


It has been suggested that if I want to fill more of the frame with the 5" bird using a 600mm lens, I will need to reduce the MFD, maybe by using extension tubes - I have yet to try this but I will give it a go.
 
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thanks guys I've managed to sort a gitzo gt4542ls from wrex cameras although a lot more money :( but at least Ive got one sorted I also bought the benro gh2 gimbal head to go with it for the record I realise the 600mm f4 is a big lump to hump about but it will mostly be used in hides for which I have a tamrac professional rucksack ( even more money :( ) to carry it. and it will be paired with my 100mm- 400mm mkii which I probably will be using the most. thanks for all the help and input as usual from everyone no doubt I will be asking for more help with the lens so watch this space :naughty:
 
So Bill it was exactly as i said in my earlier post in that you are using the wrong lens for your requirements. You talk about the distance to the subject and the crop ratios but the same can ve said of any lens. Sure the 600 has a long MFD but then i wouldnt normally shoot macro or portraits with long lenses. The 600 when used correctly for its intended purpose is stunning however the bigger the crop the more detail and data you lose- same for any image from any lens/camera combo. You have picked on the 600 lenses weakness which is the MFD and honed in on it - use the correct lens for the situation you find yoursel in be it for small birds a metre away or birds of prey 50m away.
 
markyboy.1967 said:
So Bill it was exactly as i said in my earlier post in that you are using the wrong lens for your requirements. You talk about the distance to the subject and the crop ratios but the same can ve said of any lens. Sure the 600 has a long MFD but then i wouldnt normally shoot macro or portraits with long lenses. The 600 when used correctly for its intended purpose is stunning however the bigger the crop the more detail and data you lose- same for any image from any lens/camera combo. You have picked on the 600 lenses weakness which is the MFD and honed in on it - use the correct lens for the situation you find yoursel in be it for small birds a metre away or birds of prey 50m away.
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Maybe my posts are confusing

I think that we are saying the same thing in part - the 600mm f4 is a great lens not a weak lens but it has to be used at the correct distance to get the best results ..... and I have tested it at various distances from 6 to 15 metres .. along with the 300's at MFD upwards

what I am also saying is that if you use the 300mm f4 or f2.8 with a 5" inch bird, ( for example), at its MFD which is less than that of the 600mm - you will still have to crop to 20% to get the same detail ..... the ratios are the same

That's why I said that when I am shooting birds with the 600mm, I take two cameras with me D810/600mm f4 and the D750/300mm f2.8/f4 with the 3 x TC's and then depending on how near I am to the subject I can use the correct set up ...... or depending where I am

I also said don't buy the 600mm f4 if you expect it to take great shots when, for example, you are miles away from the subject, and that the 300mm lens with the 3 TC's is more flexible than the 600mm f4 on it's own ........ because you have a choice of MFD's with the TC's and can use which is the best depending on how near you are.

I am not using the wrong lens for my requirements as I chose which set up to use depending on my requirements

read my post again, I said " if I am out shooting with the 600mm f4 I always have another camera with the 300mm f4 PF VR and the range of TC's , with me" and "What i am saying is that the 600mm f4 is quite a specific, specialised lens"

what I am also suggesting is that the 300mm f2.8 or 300mm f4 with the TC's is a more flexible arrangement that just the 600mm f4 alone

I would not buy a 600mm f4 unless I had a 300mm with the TC's that are appropriate to the version - the 1,4 and 1,7 work well with the 300mm f4 PF VR and all three work well with the 300mm f2.8VR, the 1,4 works well with the AFS 300mm f4

what I have also eluded to is that it you want to reduce the MFD on the 600mm then maybe a set of extenders (tubes) should be tried so that you can use the 600mm f4 when the birds are nearer than the "native" MFD of the 600mm, i.e. 5,6 metres and in doing so this may make the 600mm f4 a more flexible lens ............. this was suggested to me and at first I thought it was not a good idea - but maybe I am wrong and I have not tried it yet
 
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