Scratched film

richardhall

richardhall

Suspended / Banned
Messages
72
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
Yes
I've been getting scratches on my bulk rolled film, and am looking for clues as to the most likely cause. The possibilities I've thought of are

1. The film itself is old and damaged
2. There's a problem with the bulk loader (I got it used from ebay)
3. I'm doing something wrong loading the film

Maybe there's something else I haven't thought of? What do you think is the most likely cause? I'm attaching a sample picture scratches.jpg
 
What's the loader? Does it have a felt light trap (could be grit in it) or a slot to open when the unit is sealed after fixing film to spool(could have failed to open it). Or dirt in the felt in the cassette you're loading, although the recent consensus in another thread was that this simply doesn't happen.

It's been just under 50 years since I last used a bulk loader, so more recent users' advice should be more helpful.
 
Does it happen with another camera?
4. problem within camera back.
I had a problem with a Yashica many years ago. The film pressure plate had a foreign object on it which scratched the film.
 
Is it definitely on the negative? I had this and it ended up being a mucky scanner bed. Admittedly it was just one line.
5. Mucky scanner

If it's on every film, I doubt it's the film cans. So do you use reusable ones with a lid that pops off? If so, get the loader in a dark bag and cut a length of film straight from the roll. Hand roll it onto the reusable spool, then pop it in the can and put the lid on. Take pics. If you still have the lines it's the film, if you don't it's the loader. You don't need to worry too much about finger marks, or a lengthy amount of shots as you're just looking for the scratches.
 
Last edited:
Harlequin565 said:
Is it definitely on the negative? I had this and it ended up being a mucky scanner bed. Admittedly it was just one line.
5. Mucky scanner

If it's on every film, I doubt it's the film cans. So do you use reusable ones with a lid that pops off? If so, get the loader in a dark bag and cut a length of film straight from the roll. Hand roll it onto the reusable spool, then pop it in the can and put the lid on. Take pics. If you still have the lines it's the film, if you don't it's the loader. You don't need to worry too much about finger marks, or a lengthy amount of shots as you're just looking for the scratches.
Click to expand...

Why not cut out the middleman? If the film is scratched before loading, the scratches will be visible before loading.

What I don't think we've been told is whether the scratches are along the complete length of the roll, including the end fastened to the cassette. If that's the case, and the film in the loader isn't scratched, it would suggest that the scratches happen in the loading.

Again, in that scenario, if the part of the film that never leaves the cassette is unscratched, it would point to camera or cassette.

As an alternative, if the film is home developed and squeegeed to remove water, grit in the squeegee could do it.
 
If you are using a bulk loader, you need to be scrupulously clean. I make sure the general area I am working in is clean. I clean the felt on the cassettes each time before I load. My bulk loader does not have a felt light seal - it relies on overlapping plastic to keep light out while attaching the cassette. If you are using one of these, are you remembering to rotate the light trap to open it before winding the film?

The film could be getting scratched while loading into the development spiral - again, be scrupulously clean. It could be dirty film squeegees after development - some people never use these, I do but, again, scrupulously clean.
 
I used to get a lot of scratches on my negatives caused by the rollers used by the lab during processing. They always claim it's your camera, using the myth that if the scratches are always in the same place it must be your fault, not theirs. I noticed it stopped when I started using Peak Processing (as was) who use a roller free process. Wet emulsion is far, far easier to scratch.

On the other hand, my Box Brownie does scratch negatives.

There is no need to squeegee home developed film if you give it a dunk in distilled water after rinsing. You can even keep the water to make up the next batch of developer.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
I've been reusing film cannisters, but not more than a couple of times and since I've had the same issue with several cameras, I'm fairly sure the problem is either with the loader or the way that I'm using it.
StephenM said:
What's the loader? Does it have a felt light trap (could be grit in it) or a slot to open when the unit is sealed after fixing film to spool(could have failed to open it). Or dirt in the felt in the cassette you're loading, although the recent consensus in another thread was that this simply doesn't happen.
Click to expand...
It's a 'Computrol' and has a slot to open rather than felt. I didn't think it was possible to load film onto a cassette with the slot in the wrong position, but I'm going to look at that again this morning.
 
StephenM said:
Why not cut out the middleman? If the film is scratched before loading, the scratches will be visible before loading.
Click to expand...

I must have badly explained my point then as that's what I was going for :)
 
Harlequin565 said:
I must have badly explained my point then as that's what I was going for :)
Click to expand...

More likely me being dense.

Rhetorical question: if "dense" is bad, is being "light headed" good?
 
it is almost always caused by winding through a felt trap or passing over a static edge. once loaded with dust a felt is almost impossible to clean.
in past times self opening cassettes were made by Leica and Shirly Wellard that gave a clear path for film both in the camera and when bulk loading film.

Today most people rewind old felt lipped cassettes. and then carry them around with out outer containers. this is asking for trouble. each grain of dust is a potential parallel scratch running the length of the film... often reinforced when it is wound in and out of the cassette in the camera.

Felt lipped cassettes were designed for single use.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
it is almost always caused by winding through a felt trap or passing over a static edge. once loaded with dust a felt is almost impossible to clean.
in past times self opening cassettes were made by Leica and Shirly Wellard that gave a clear path for film both in the camera and when bulk loading film.

Today most people rewind old felt lipped cassettes. and then carry them around with out outer containers. this is asking for trouble. each grain of dust is a potential parallel scratch running the length of the film... often reinforced when it is wound in and out of the cassette in the camera.

Felt lipped cassettes were designed for single use.
Click to expand...

erm my Pentax reloadable cassete bought about 55 years has felt lips and used it many times without scratches....mind you I didn't have dandruff. o_O ;)
 
Yep, I'm gonna add 6: Processing error, such as a squeegee being used, or some such
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Today most people rewind old felt lipped cassettes. and then carry them around with out outer containers. this is asking for trouble. each grain of dust is a potential parallel scratch running the length of the film... often reinforced when it is wound in and out of the cassette in the camera.

Felt lipped cassettes were designed for single use.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that's true, but I'm afraid I'm the sort of person who likes to see what can be got away with.
I've got a short piece of old HP5 standing in a tank of caffenol that I rolled half with the bulk loader slot in one position, half in the other. So with a bit of luck, I'll soon know what the problem is.
VirtualAdept said:
Yep, I'm gonna add 6: Processing error, such as a squeegee being used,
Click to expand...
I can see how that might do it, but I generally just hang the film to dry after a final wash in distilled water. No squeegees here!
 
If you use wetting agent in the final rinse there is no need to squeegee at all. the water will flow evenly off the film. leaving no bubbles or water spots at all.
Use decent quality film clips, that do not trap water and then let it go onto the dry film. if that happens you must re-soak and start drying again.

I wonder what has happened to all the thousands of kodak stainless clips . At one time I had a draw full of at least 60 or 70 and at least 100 5x4 hangers.
Dry to dry Processing machines made them mostly redundant..

We are moving back to the post war days when photography was mostly a hand craft. and before anything was automated.
 
I used them when I first started. The problem was the rust.
 
I use the bulldog clips if I'm hanging film from the lampshade in my study. If she let's me use the airing cupboard, it's plastic washing line clips for me too.
 
Peter B said:
These metal clips have been referenced on another site. but I haven't used them. They look good for the price, though.
Click to expand...
narrow clips like that let the film curl, rather than keep it flat

This is what you need
www.ebay.co.uk

Kodak Self Draining Bottom Film Clip + Kodak Jr film clip (B2262) | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kodak Self Draining Bottom Film Clip + Kodak Jr film clip (B2262) at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!
www.ebay.co.uk
They only hold the film at two points and do not trap water between the surfaces.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
narrow clips like that let the film curl, rather than keep it flat

This is what you need
www.ebay.co.uk

Kodak Self Draining Bottom Film Clip + Kodak Jr film clip (B2262) | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Kodak Self Draining Bottom Film Clip + Kodak Jr film clip (B2262) at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!
www.ebay.co.uk
They only hold the film at two points and do not trap water between the surfaces.
Click to expand...
Ah, I should have made it clear I was replying to your " at least 100 5x4 hangers.", since 5x4 doesn't need a bottom weight. Even better if they are Fuji Acros sheets with the hanging hole in one corner!
 
Peter B said:
Ah, I should have made it clear I was replying to your " at least 100 5x4 hangers.", since 5x4 doesn't need a bottom weight. Even better if they are Fuji Acros sheets with the hanging hole in one corner!
Click to expand...

I always used these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kodak-5x...232427?hash=item2f4fea84eb:g:DNoAAOSw7elfxBG3
hung in a cage for processing 5x4 in 3 gallon tanks.
They were hung up, still in the hangers, in the drying cabinet. They were not touched at all till perfectly dry. and then put straight into negative bags.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top