Schools banning photography

Anorakus

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Interesting article in today's Guardian here

The comments are running about 99% in favour of parents being allowed to photograph their children at school :thumbs:

A.
 
This quote is probably the reason why they banned photography.

"It started with a notice in the school newsletter saying that no photography was permitted at the nativity play, but that parents could buy a DVD for £12."
 
I suspect the ones who'd mob anyone with a camera while shouting paedophile don't read the Guardian.
 
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At work on Friday I was to attend a children's centre to relocate a telephone in a staff office. After signing in, I was asked if I had a mobile phone, to which I replied yes! I was then told I must leave the phone with reception because it 'might' have a camera on it and I 'could' take photos of the children with it if I was left wandering around on my own. I quizzed the chap on reception, implying that I may be a criminal or something and he then contacted his superior who came out of her office and continued to inform me of the ridiculous situation. Apparently all the staff are not allowed to carry their phones on site either?
I said I could switch it off but not leave it with reception - to this I was told that I might switch it back on!
As I was not going to leave my iPhone with a stranger (who may wish to access important information/ photos/ personal details etc) and I doubt if they would have given me a receipt/ ensure that the phone would be safe - I declined the offer and left site - to the tune of the superior(?) lady asking who my boss was and that she was going to report me!
I am self-employed and I spoke to my contact who organises this particular work to let him know what had just occurred. He agreed with my response.
What would have happened if I had lied and said no, I don't have a phone?
Should they have asked if I had a separate camera on me? As I may have.
Should they ask if I had an iPad (or other tablet etc) on me? because I often carry mine to site to make notes and take photos for surveys etc.
The job was only repatching one phone from one cat5 outlet to another and would have taken a minute or two. The office (where the data cab resides also) is right behind reception, so no need to go down the corridor through the card-swipe security door into the classroom area.
It seems to me that we are losing the grip on reality here.
There! Rant over, for a minute or two :-)
 
Sylar said:
.....
As I was not going to leave my iPhone with a stranger (who may wish to access important information/ photos/ personal details etc) and I doubt if they would have given me a receipt/ ensure that the phone would be safe....
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Quite right! there is no way I would hand over a £600 device to a complete stranger :eek:
 
They said we couldn't take pictures of our children performing at school last year ( we could buy a DVD), i pulled my child out of the play and so did another 7+ parents.

After much faffing about by the school they decided to allow us to take photographs.
 
You are all clearly very lucky that you do not foster children who are subject to a court order and who would be in danger of having their placement ruined should their picture be placed up on facebook or the internet. You are clearly also very lucky that you did not send your children to the nursery in portsmouth where the nursery nurse was photographing children and sending them to a paedophile ring. Perhaps when entering into a job at a children's centre with a phone to respect their wishes you could have left your phone in the car? It may also be the case that having spent 2 weeks ensuring your little angels have learnt lines and are ready to perform, the school were just hoping you would come and watch the play rather than firing off hundreds of flashes in the desperate hope of taking a picture in focus.
In the good old days people accepted that schools did not make rules up just for fun but had some underlying reason for it which didn't need to be explained in explicit detail to every parent. Unfortunately nowadays parents think they have a right to question everything schools do, and should be able to have a say in running the place.
Do all the teachers out there a favour, hear your child read every night, help them with their homework, and support the school in doing a very difficult job, and please stop moaning.
 
cornishboy said:
Unfortunately nowadays parents think they have a right to question everything schools do, and should be able to have a say in running the place.
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yes i do.
 
Just as long as we can come around to your place of work and tell you what to do?
 
cornishboy said:
Just as long as we can come around to your place of work and tell you what to do?
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I always used to have people tell me what to do in an old job of mine even though on the whole it was them totally in the wrong or they were the cause of this issue, I honestly do believe that most of the non camera use scare mongering around schools is exactly that.....as a percentage of all pupils how many of them would be subject to a court order I suspect that the number would be a very small percentage ;)

Matt
MWHCVT
 
But thats the problem isnt it, we are not just looking after your kid, we are looking after 100-400 kids, and what we need to do to keep one of them safe might not be what you want for your offspring - but we still need to do it.
You might also consider that people who have trained and have a great deal of experience in a job are better placed to judge what is right than interested observers.
 
And said child could also be photographed outside the school with their friends and the image posted on facebook or wherever. I expect there is a photo of me on facebook somewhere, perhaps you could go and find it, and then post it here to convince me that such actions pose a credible threat. For the record I am involved with such children and I have been CRB checked!
 
true, but the responsibility of looking after them ends when the bell rings, so that's when the parents can take over. FYI have been thanked by a parent of such a child who commented "the other parents just don't understand what is like, even after the last few years."
 
Ok, so i can't take a picture of my own child during a play, but it's all right for me to stand at the school gates and take a picture of every single child that i see?
 
cornishboy said:
You are all clearly very lucky that you do not foster children who are subject to a court order and who would be in danger of having their placement ruined should their picture be placed up on facebook or the internet. You are clearly also very lucky that you did not send your children to the nursery in portsmouth where the nursery nurse was photographing children and sending them to a paedophile ring. Perhaps when entering into a job at a children's centre with a phone to respect their wishes you could have left your phone in the car? It may also be the case that having spent 2 weeks ensuring your little angels have learnt lines and are ready to perform, the school were just hoping you would come and watch the play rather than firing off hundreds of flashes in the desperate hope of taking a picture in focus.
In the good old days people accepted that schools did not make rules up just for fun but had some underlying reason for it which didn't need to be explained in explicit detail to every parent. Unfortunately nowadays parents think they have a right to question everything schools do, and should be able to have a say in running the place.
Do all the teachers out there a favour, hear your child read every night, help them with their homework, and support the school in doing a very difficult job, and please stop moaning.
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These rules were in place before these horrible things happened . Such things continue to happen with or with out rules.
If the intent is there it will happen.
Most schools have been told to allow photography of school events by their authorities.
There is no law in place that bans normal photographs of children. Schools have chosen to ban them in the belief that it prevents illegal activity, there is no evidence that this is so.
 
It's all a **** take to be honest,
As normal a small group of people have wrecked it for everyone else. I took my camera to my sisters play and no one informed me but just as the play started everyone was told they're not aloud. They didt even record the bloody thing!
 
Please don't think that i believe at risk children shouldn't be protected, but a blanket ban of photography in schools is just daft.
 
cornishboy said:
But thats the problem isnt it, we are not just looking after your kid, we are looking after 100-400 kids, and what we need to do to keep one of them safe might not be what you want for your offspring - but we still need to do it.
You might also consider that people who have trained and have a great deal of experience in a job are better placed to judge what is right than interested observers.
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If this is their belief, they have be badly trained.
All they are doing is covering their backs by ticking boxes.
They are doing nothing substantial in protecting the children from them selves. It is mostly perverted carers that do the most harm to children.
CRB checks have been a failure so far.

I have not seen a single prosecution of a "visitor" for harming children or taking perverted photograps of them. The same can not be said about school staff.
 
Why not just have photo opportunities at a couple of points during a play? If organised correctly those that shouldn't be photographed won't be on stage or won't be recognisable. This way everyone is happy.
 
cornishboy said:
true, but the responsibility of looking after them ends when the bell rings, so that's when the parents can take over. FYI have been thanked by a parent of such a child who commented "the other parents just don't understand what is like, even after the last few years."
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Terrywoodenpic said:
If this is their belief, they have be badly trained.
All they are doing is covering their backs by ticking boxes.
They are doing nothing substantial in protecting the children from them selves. It is mostly perverted carers that do the most harm to children.
CRB checks have been a failure so far.

I have not seen a single prosecution of a "visitor" for harming children or taking perverted photograps of them. The same can not be said about school staff.
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Exactly.
 
cornishboy said:
You are all clearly very lucky that you do not foster children who are subject to a court order and who would be in danger of having their placement ruined should their picture be placed up on facebook or the internet.
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Which smacks of dual standards when the school, if banning photography to protect a child subject to court order, then want to ask all the parents to pay £12 for a video. Hardly any protection there, just greed by the looks of it.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
If this is their belief, they have be badly trained.
All they are doing is covering their backs by ticking boxes.
They are doing nothing substantial in protecting the children from them selves. It is mostly perverted carers that do the most harm to children.
CRB checks have been a failure so far.

I have not seen a single prosecution of a "visitor" for harming children or taking perverted photograps of them. The same can not be said about school staff.
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:plusone: These rules remind me a little of a Jamie Oliver programme the other week. He was in a Kindergarden School in America, and the kids were not using knives and forks. When he asked the dinner ladies to put them out it was shock horror, forms had to be filled in, permission from the governors had to be sought :shake::shake: They must think that at the age of 5 all kids are going to go down the road of becoming a knife wielding maniac :shrug:
 
Response to post 4

Why not leave the iphone in the vehicle one arrived in??? seems the easy solution to me.

Realspeed
 
Why is it if you work in the public sector everyone thinks they can have a say? If you walked into a private building and you were told you couldn't use your phone you would either follow the rules or leave. In schools you do what you want. Maybe the issue is having some respect for regulations on private property?
 
Post 4 - if you work with Children's centres, schools etc then you must be aware of these issues. If the job was only a couple of minutes then I'd have probably said I'd have left the phone in the car after explaining I had to be contactable at all time. Realistically though, if they had concerns about strangers on site them you should be escorted at all time.

As to the court order argument - well this is trotted out every time this is discussed and it's a pretty thin argument. No other youth organisation bans photography, but there are rules about identifying children, such as first names only.

Can you give me the statistics of a child 'hidden' in another area is identified from the facebook (or other social media) photos of school events?

true, but the responsibility of looking after them ends when the bell rings
Actually you know that's not true and it's often the teachers who spot problems in the childs home life.
 
I worked for BT for over 20 years installing telephone systems in all situations and never once had the need to take a phone on site, so the excuse of needing one is pretty limp.

Realspeed
 
Realspeed & Byker28i, thanks for your input regarding leaving the phone in the car etc. - the point I am making is this - I have worked at this particular site several times in the last couple of years and this is the first time they have asked about phones. I have/had no intention on taking any photos of children at any time. Surely a clearly placed sign stating "Please do NOT take photos of any children" would have the same effect? How will they impose this rule on visitors/ staff, install an airport security scanner and a burly security guard?
 
cornishboy said:
Why is it if you work in the public sector everyone thinks they can have a say? If you walked into a private building and you were told you couldn't use your phone you would either follow the rules or leave. In schools you do what you want. Maybe the issue is having some respect for regulations on private property?
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I think it is more to do with the reasons behind the rules to start with. As you mentioned earlier a child under court protection needs protecting, but lets be honest here it is not about that is it? This School ban and any other ban on kids is nothing short of madness, sparked off by paedofilia cases.The do gooders once again have sent a lot of parents into a paranoid frenzie over it all.
 
Whilst I agree that our children should of course be protected, we have reached a rediculous state of affairs. I say that because my understanding is that now, as since the year dot, the majority of child abuse is commited by members of the childs family. I'm not saying that stranger danger does not exist, but it's far from the biggest threat.

I would also add that my grandson has learnt a great trick at his nursery. If he is asked to do something that he doesn't want to do, ie, put his toys away, he will say "No, and if you make me I will tell my teacher that you hurt me." Where on earth does that come from ?
 
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My point is, as a school we ask permission from parents to allow their children to be photographed. If one parent, for any reason refuses we are stuffed. Do we withdraw a child from a worthwhile educational activity because visiting parents might take their picture, or do we say no photos? We cannot win this debate, and will therefore will feel the wrath of parents whatever we do. Even we we make it clear photos are for personal use and should not be uploaded to the Internet, we know there will be parents breaking the rules, because they feel they have rights. Once the photo has been uploaded and tagged there could be problems. Like I said, schools are in an impossible situation here and would probably appreciate some understanding from parents. We are not going to argue with parets who do not give us permission, they have rights as well.
 
cornishboy said:
Why is it if you work in the public sector everyone thinks they can have a say? If you walked into a private building and you were told you couldn't use your phone you would either follow the rules or leave. In schools you do what you want. Maybe the issue is having some respect for regulations on private property?
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:plusone:
 
cornishboy said:
My point is, as a school we ask permission from parents to allow their children to be photographed. If one parent, for any reason refuses we are stuffed. Do we withdraw a child from a worthwhile educational activity because visiting parents might take their picture, or do we say no photos? We cannot win this debate, and will therefore will feel the wrath of parents whatever we do. Even we we make it clear photos are for personal use and should not be uploaded to the Internet, we know there will be parents breaking the rules, because they feel they have rights. Once the photo has been uploaded and tagged there could be problems. Like I said, schools are in an impossible situation here and would probably appreciate some understanding from parents. We are not going to argue with parets who do not give us permission, they have rights as well.
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Fair enough, but which parents have the greater rights, and why? If, in a class of 30, one parent objects to photos, do you stop the other 29 from getting pics, which may be for friends and relatives that can't get to the performance?
 
The thing children, and us need protecting from the most is an over abundance of Political Correctness and petty regulation, what ever happened to common sense, it seemed to serve me and my family adequately when I was a child,
 
I still dont get this at all.
Why are a tiny number of people so paranoid about someone possibly taking a photograph of a youngster?.
Now if the kids were in a swimming pool, or somewhere not fully dressed, i could se their point.
Surely anyone with P**** leanings would have little interest in fully dressed kids.
Its a shame these overactive brained muppets dont focus their energies on the kids that realy do need protection.
 
artyman said:
The thing children, and us need protecting from the most is an over abundance of Political Correctness and petty regulation, what ever happened to common sense, it seemed to serve me and my family adequately when I was a child,
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+2. :thumbs:

I have to be honest and say it's one of the reasons why I am happy that my daughter is now growing up in Germany now rather than the UK. She is being allowed to have a proper childhood. Want to climb the trees in Kindergarten and now at break time at school? Not a problem. Parents want to photograph/video the kids at school shows, sportdays etc. Go ahead. Hell, I went to pick my daughter up from kindergarten a couple of years ago mid-summer, walked into the gated gardens to find all the kids running about naked playing with water pistols and hoses! This kindergarten is in a residential area surrounded by houses and flats that all look into the kindergarten. Can you imagine the outrage if this had been allowed to happened in the UK?
 
gazfy said:
+2. :thumbs:

I have to be honest and say it's one of the reasons why I am happy that my daughter is now growing up in Germany now rather than the UK. She is being allowed to have a proper childhood. Want to climb the trees in Kindergarten and now at break time at school? Not a problem. Parents want to photograph/video the kids at school shows, sportdays etc. Go ahead. Hell, I went to pick my daughter up from kindergarten a couple of years ago mid-summer, walked into the gated gardens to find all the kids running about naked playing with water pistols and hoses! This kindergarten is in a residential area surrounded by houses and flats that all look into the kindergarten. Can you imagine the outrage if this had been allowed to happened in the UK?
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And I bet the kids had a great time with no hang ups fostered on them by overly protective adults. If people would look at the facts and ignore the hype there wouldn't be a problem.
 
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