Saudi

[Susane]

Has anybody lived/worked in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia?

Looks like we may be.

My fella is being headhunted by BAE Systems to go work for Alaslaam Airways at King Kaled airport.

We go for a talk/interview in Blackpool a week on Monday. Villa and all amenities included in the pay package.

I've never left the country before, never been on a plane.

 

[Wail]

Oh yes, worked, lived and was born there!

100% pure Saudi

 

[Susane]

I may be asking you questions then next week!

 

[Wail]

Feel free to do so, I hope all goes well in the interview

 

[Yantorsen]

one country/region I would not go to live in for anything.

 

[Susane]

Well they contacted him, 3 times by phone, after seeing his cv on an air mechanics jobsite so it seems they really want him.

If all goes well and we decide to go we'll be living at the Al Salwa village, BAE's compound.

I've already looked into the laws and regulations of living there.

 

[Yantorsen]

Fair enough, I'm sure you'll be fine. I just wouldn't be comfy living in such a corrupt place, especially as a woman.

 

[Susane]

Feel free to do so, I hope all goes well in the interview

Thank you Wail, will do.

I'm very adaptable and have an open mind.
I know that there are thousands of British people living and working quite happily in Riyadh.

 

[bookwyse]

Susane,

Feel free to give me a ring on 07590 578729 as I was with BAE over there and came back from Salwa Garden Village which is the compound in Riyadh last May.

So I know a thing or two about BAE and Riydah.

Jeff

 

[Marcel]

Fair enough, I'm sure you'll be fine. I just wouldn't be comfy living in such a corrupt place, especially as a woman.

If you haven't got anything constructive to say.........

 

[Susane]

Susane,

Feel free to give me a ring on 07590 578729 as I was with BAE over there and came back from Salwa Garden Village which is the compound in Riyadh last May.

So I know a thing or two about BAE and Riydah.

Jeff

Thank you Jeff, very kind of you.
Is it a good idea to post your number up though, might get crazy peeps phoning you. :nuts:

 

[bookwyse]

I get crazy people calling me anyway, but I call them my friends.LOL

 

[Canon Bob]

You might drop a PM to Battlestar, he spent a fair time there but not sure if the family were with him at the time.

Bob

 

[CarlOgden]

I went last year to Abha in the mountains to the west of the country (closer to the Red Sea side of Saudi).

My advise...Keep the hell out of that place!

Saudi people may be ok but the rest hate western'ers, we were attacked by locals with tins/bottles/cans and verbal.

3 days after leaving, 3 french muslims were executed!

I certainly wouldn't recommend any non-muslim people to go to Saudi!

Carl.

 

[Garry79]

Fair enough, I'm sure you'll be fine. I just wouldn't be comfy living in such a corrupt place, especially as a woman.

It's not as corrupt as many, many other places so that's not really a constructive or fair comment. What you will find, however is that it will be a HUGE culture shock if you haven't been exposed to anything like that before. My parents-in-law live and work in Muscat in Oman which is similar but Saudi is a stricter and more traditional country.

 

[Garry79]

I went last year to Abha in the mountains to the west of the country (closer to the Red Sea side of Saudi).

My advise...Keep the hell out of that place!

Saudi people may be ok but the rest hate western'ers, we were attacked by locals with tins/bottles/cans and verbal.

3 days after leaving, 3 french muslims were executed!

I certainly wouldn't recommend any non-muslim people to go to Saudi!

Carl.

Now that is a useful comment. :shake:

 

[Kev M]

Get him to ask BAE how long the tie-in is for. I know someone who went to work out there for BAE or someone similar a few years back. In return for the money and other percieved benefits he had to submit his passport for the first six months he was out there so he couldn't leave.

 

[Hacker]

I would think very carefully about the move and do a lot of research before making any decision. I have worked in Saudi (many years ago and pre 9/11) and was offered a role about 4 years ago but after looking into it I declined it for the following reasons:

1. Culturally I don't think my family would have accepted or enjoyed the sometimes strict interpretation of Shariah law, including how women are not allowed to drive unaccompanied (although this may have changed).

2. This was reasonably soon after the second Gulf War and the situation was tense with attacks on Westerners many of which were never publicised.

3. The compound/ghetto syndrome. Having worked extensively overseas I have often seen ex-pats who very rarely leave the compound or site where they and all the others live. They become very insular thereby enhancing any localised tensions that might exist (and they do in Saudi).

You have also got to look at the bigger picture when making a decision like this. Saudi Arabia is actually quite politically isolated in the Middle East due to it's support for Western foreign policy (i.e. US & UK) which has led to an underlying tension which extremist and fundamentalists are exploiting. When you consider the population growth (nearly 40% of the country's population is under 15 years old) and the fact that for years the primary industry has been oil and there is not a huge infrastructure in place to employ the young people of the country Saudi is going to facing huge unemployment. I believe this will lead to civil unrest and possibly even a regime change, the monarchy are not particularly popular over there, another fact exploited by those hell-bent on causing trouble.

If it were me? No I wouldn't go mainly because I have children and a fiercely independant wife but your circumstances might be different.

 

[bookwyse]

I went last year to Abha in the mountains to the west of the country (closer to the Red Sea side of Saudi).

My advise...Keep the hell out of that place!

Saudi people may be ok but the rest hate western'ers, we were attacked by locals with tins/bottles/cans and verbal.

3 days after leaving, 3 french muslims were executed!

I certainly wouldn't recommend any non-muslim people to go to Saudi!

Carl.

I havent heard of the French deaths so cant comment. However experiences of holiday makers will greatly differ form those who actually live there and make an effore to integrate into the society.

I walked into a toy shop in a souk (market) in Riyadh at 11pm and the owner asked me what I was looking for , so I told him, when I had finished my purchase he asked me to wait, went out the back and came back with two bags full of wooden toys. He gave them to me and wouldn't take any money saying they were for the boys!!!!! How many places in Europe would do that.

I actually felt safer walking around Riyadh at that time of night than anywhere else in the world.

Kev, the reason for BAE asking for the passport is so that can apply for the individuals Iquama(Work permit). Once the Iquama is received the individual keeps this and BAE hold the passport and swap them when the individual wants to leave. This is common practice so that in the case of an emergencythe company knows where all individuals and their passports are. I have never heard of anyone not being able to leave when they wanted tounless they didnt have the correct visa.

The weirdest thing about Saudi is having to have a visa to LEAVE the country but you can get multi entry visas which let you in and out as often as you want for a period of six months.


As for the country being corrupt, it is a totally diffrent system and bribery is seen as an every day occurence. How many companies over here have an acocunt called bribes in their accounts!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you have never lived there then I do not think you are qualified to respond and making stupid ones just drags this down and make speople look stupid.

Sorry guys

 

[bookwyse]

I would think very carefully about the move and do a lot of research before making any decision. I have worked in Saudi (many years ago and pre 9/11) and was offered a role about 4 years ago but after looking into it I declined it for the following reasons:

1. Culturally I don't think my family would have accepted or enjoyed the sometimes strict interpretation of Shariah law, including how women are not allowed to drive unaccompanied (although this may have changed).

2. This was reasonably soon after the second Gulf War and the situation was tense with attacks on Westerners many of which were never publicised.

3. The compound/ghetto syndrome. Having worked extensively overseas I have often seen ex-pats who very rarely leave the compound or site where they and all the others live. They become very insular thereby enhancing any localised tensions that might exist (and they do in Saudi).

You have also got to look at the bigger picture when making a decision like this. Saudi Arabia is actually quite politically isolated in the Middle East due to it's support for Western foreign policy (i.e. US & UK) which has led to an underlying tension which extremist and fundamentalists are exploiting. When you consider the population growth (nearly 40% of the country's population is under 15 years old) and the fact that for years the primary industry has been oil and there is not a huge infrastructure in place to employ the young people of the country Saudi is going to facing huge unemployment. I believe this will lead to civil unrest and possibly even a regime change, the monarchy are not particularly popular over there, another fact exploited by those hell-bent on causing trouble.

If it were me? No I wouldn't go mainly because I have children and a fiercely independant wife but your circumstances might be different.

Well spoken,

Women are still not allowed to drive and have to wear a black abaya (cloak) everytime they go out.

The shops still shut during prayer time and during Ramadan nothing gets done!!!!

I agree to some extent with point 3 but Imade the effort to get out of the compound and actually got invited back to a Saudi house, which is difficult.

I still have a lot of friends ove rthere and am trying to get back for a visit at some point.

 

[Wail]

I went last year to Abha in the mountains to the west of the country (closer to the Red Sea side of Saudi).

My advise...Keep the hell out of that place!

Saudi people may be ok but the rest hate western'ers, we were attacked by locals with tins/bottles/cans and verbal.

3 days after leaving, 3 french muslims were executed!

I certainly wouldn't recommend any non-muslim people to go to Saudi!

Carl.

Fair comments, since they stem from your experience.

But I have to ask, if the Saudi people are ok (and thank you for saying that), and Saudi people account for over 80% of the population, then why shy away from a country where (as you say) 20% (which would be the none Saudis) not want you there! Plus, I am sure its not the whole 20% of none-Saudis who hate forigners :shrug:. That would be like saying don't come to UK since there are a minority who hate non-UK subjects?!


Yes, there were 3 French murdered .. and many others as well. As a matter of fact, one French person was murdered in a main road, in the morning, within walking distance from my house!

But ... how many were murdered here in UK - or any other country for that matter? Regardless of the cause of the murder, a murder is murder. A few months ago an Omani national was murdered here in UK, a womans' dismembered body was found on a beach .. and I am sure the list goes on. Does that make UK a horrid country to live in?


Yes, as a Saudi I am very defensive of my country

 

[Wail]

It's not as corrupt as many, many other places so that's not really a constructive or fair comment. What you will find, however is that it will be a HUGE culture shock if you haven't been exposed to anything like that before. My parents-in-law live and work in Muscat in Oman which is similar but Saudi is a stricter and more traditional country.

Thank you for what you've said ....

Again I have a BUT to add here ... who says Saudi is a curropt nation?

I've lived there, and have never had to pay a bribe, and it is not a part of any business practice.

That said, there was a recent issue in the news about the BAe & Al Yamama project that some claim the Saudi ambasador to the USA was receiving bribes from BAe; and that the Saudi authority have asked for that investigation to be dropped.

Well, let's for argument sake say there was a bribe paid (I will come to this later), then that would mean a Saudi ambasador was as much at guilty as the UK individuals who work for BAe. So, who's to say we are currupt when the very same people here are on equal curruption?

As for that case .... let's say the investigation took place. That would imply investigating all the accounts that our ambasador has all over the world, and exposing all his personal life to a committee of people which will (as we know how well the UK system is in keeping records .... ) this would leak to the public. Once a high official of Sauid is accused, and then found to be innocent .. with his public life exposed to the public .. do you think that the relationship between Saudi Arabia and UK would be smooth? Also, how many dirty business could come to surface that would incriminate many here, and many there?

On the flip side of this, take the current case with Mr. Osborne in the news... this is considered pure deffamation in Saudi cultutre. Over there, if you call someone such foul names, that would land you in jail. Can you imagine such baseless accussations? Unless they are substantiated and proven in a court of law then there is a HUGE jail sentence.

Back to the ambasador's case, what would the Saudi authority do once their ambasador is cleared of the baseless accusations? File a charge against all the UK papers and individuals who spoke ill of him? Here in UK, it is OK to bad mouth a lot of people ... and you can easily get away with it. Not so in Saudi.

 

[Wail]

I would think very carefully about the move and do a lot of research before making any decision. I have worked in Saudi (many years ago and pre 9/11) and was offered a role about 4 years ago but after looking into it I declined it for the following reasons:

1. Culturally I don't think my family would have accepted or enjoyed the sometimes strict interpretation of Shariah law, including how women are not allowed to drive unaccompanied (although this may have changed).


Yes, the Saudi culture is a very hard one to accept and live with. We are very different from most countries, and I wouldn't want that changed, plus I hate a lot of the "adopted" none-Saudi habits that have been adopted thanks to Globalisation. I am very protective over my country's culture, more so as I grow older.

Yes, our interpretation of Islam is very strict; many think otherwise

Women cannot drive in Saudi, not alone and not accompanied. Women driving is illegal


2. This was reasonably soon after the second Gulf War and the situation was tense with attacks on Westerners many of which were never publicised.

There was and always will be attacks on all sort of nationalities in ALL countries. Why is the West making such a big deal of their people being attacked in Saudi. How mahy Saudis are attacked in UK every year? How many are attacked in other countries .. Crime, agianst all nationalities and race and creed happens in all parts of the world and no country is sterile from this.

What the West is trying to show is that we have an unstable country. Wasn't there a thread here a short while ago asking about the safety of photographers (and in particular women) who go out alone? Isn't there a thread asking about the safety of people in the coming halloween event? How come this is not made in to a public orgy of crime against people? Crime and murder exists under whatever umbrella we wish to hide it.



3. The compound/ghetto syndrome. Having worked extensively overseas I have often seen ex-pats who very rarely leave the compound or site where they and all the others live. They become very insular thereby enhancing any localised tensions that might exist (and they do in Saudi).

I have to agree with you on this 100%


You have also got to look at the bigger picture when making a decision like this. Saudi Arabia is actually quite politically isolated in the Middle East due to it's support for Western foreign policy (i.e. US & UK) which has led to an underlying tension which extremist and fundamentalists are exploiting. When you consider the population growth (nearly 40% of the country's population is under 15 years old) and the fact that for years the primary industry has been oil and there is not a huge infrastructure in place to employ the young people of the country Saudi is going to facing huge unemployment. I believe this will lead to civil unrest and possibly even a regime change, the monarchy are not particularly popular over there, another fact exploited by those hell-bent on causing trouble.

Again, I agree with you on this 100%. Most think that the Saudi government is pro. fundamentalist while in reality it is way too Western for many to like. So much so that this has created a HUGE resentment with the majority.

As for unemployment, yes that is another big issue that is too complex to discuss here but it does exist. Thankfully, the current King has been working full throttle to irradicate this as much as possible. Not an easy task, but he is making huge strides in the right direction.

Civil unrest may come from many reasons in Saudi, but most likely - if anything - it will be due to Western intervention in that region rather than anything else. Case in point, with invasion of Iraq (not to be discussed here) and Afghanistan (not to be discussed here either) what the West have done is created a PERFECT test ground for fundamentalist to test their skills, brush it up and recruite a lot more. All these fundamentalist will go back "home" one day .. and that will be Western countries as much as it will be Saudi Arabia. It is this that is causing havock in that part of the world, not unemployment!


If it were me? No I wouldn't go mainly because I have children and a fiercely independant wife but your circumstances might be different.

That is good enough, to each his / her own. And I respect your points and your wife's points on that.

I may agree with some of your point and have a different opinion on other points .. I have replied to each point in bold and italics without the quote.

 

[Wail]

I havent heard of the French deaths so cant comment. However experiences of holiday makers will greatly differ form those who actually live there and make an effore to integrate into the society.

Well said, and thank you.


I walked into a toy shop in a souk (market) in Riyadh at 11pm and the owner asked me what I was looking for , so I told him, when I had finished my purchase he asked me to wait, went out the back and came back with two bags full of wooden toys. He gave them to me and wouldn't take any money saying they were for the boys!!!!! How many places in Europe would do that.

Again, thank you for highlighting something positive about my country.

I actually felt safer walking around Riyadh at that time of night than anywhere else in the world.


Yes again, thank you. That country is more safe than most other countries ... and I can argue this until the end of time without tiring.


Kev, the reason for BAE asking for the passport is so that can apply for the individuals Iquama(Work permit). Once the Iquama is received the individual keeps this and BAE hold the passport and swap them when the individual wants to leave. This is common practice so that in the case of an emergencythe company knows where all individuals and their passports are. I have never heard of anyone not being able to leave when they wanted tounless they didnt have the correct visa.

The weirdest thing about Saudi is having to have a visa to LEAVE the country but you can get multi entry visas which let you in and out as often as you want for a period of six months.

Yes, this exit visa is to ensrue that the individual has no outstandings within the Saudi system. No debts to be collected, no fines to be paid, no paperwork still pending.. not necessarily out of a fault of the individual of his / her own, but could be due to false accusations by others, failure of his / her employers etc. If the individual hasn't broken the law, and hasn't done anything that would be suspecious then he / she has nothing to worry about applying for this. Passport offices in Saudi main cities are open 24 / 7 (yes 24 / 7) and such paper work can be done with 24 hours.


As for the country being corrupt, it is a totally diffrent system and bribery is seen as an every day occurence. How many companies over here have an acocunt called bribes in their accounts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really? I have to dissagree with you on this, but then I've already replied about the bribery part.


If you have never lived there then I do not think you are qualified to respond and making stupid ones just drags this down and make speople look stupid.

Sorry guys

I've again replied to this within the quote with my text being in bold and italics.

Thank you for a very constructive and useful feedback, and though I may still dissagree on the bribery part, I have to say this has been a nice read. Though I don't understand why you've had to give an apology in the end .. may be it is because you've said something Western ears wouldn't like to read ?

I say THANK YOU

 

[Ant]

IIRC, you won't get a pension over here when working in saudi.

If you're a british citizen, and you work all your life in another country, i don't think you're entitled to state pension.

(I could however, be terribly wrong, but i got that from a bloke at work, a mardy old b****r who complains all the time, but worked for 40 years in saudi.)

 

[Wail]

Well spoken,

Women are still not allowed to drive and have to wear a black abaya (cloak) everytime they go out.

Very true, but such is the culture .. when in Rome do as the Romans do :shrug:. Also, would anyone wear a swimsuite and go into town? Wouldn't that person look odd? So, out of respect for the culture of the country I am going to, I will adhere to that country'c code of conduct and modest requirements.


The shops still shut during prayer time and during Ramadan nothing gets done!!!!

Yes, we do take our religious obligations very seriously and expect others to respect that. What's the harm in that? It's our way of life.

As for Ramadan, we do believe that month should be devoted to religious obligations and family ties. Business, as important as it may be, is not more so important that our devotion to God and our family and friends. We are asked by God to be more adherent in that month, and we try to do that as much as possible. Everything else is 2ndary. But you have valid point, coming from a Western culture, these are all new to you .. here in UK shops used to close on Sundays, and in many other parts of the world they have religious and social obligations that need to be adhered too just as well.


I agree to some extent with point 3 but Imade the effort to get out of the compound and actually got invited back to a Saudi house, which is difficult.


Thank you, I hope you did get to see some nice parts of the country?


I still have a lot of friends ove rthere and am trying to get back for a visit at some point.

Thank you for a constructive reply, and again I've replied within your reply in bold and italics.

 

[Wail]

As much as I didn't want to get into this, but I find it hard to sit back and hear negative views on my country which are based on superficial instances that are "common" happenings all over the world.

That aside, yes Saudi Arabia is a very hard culture to accept; more so if you're coming from the West.

Yes, we have rules and regulations that are tough; while on the flip side of that we are very easy with many other rules and regulations.

Yes, we have a harsh interpretation of Islamic code; but that's our affair and not anyone elses's.

Yes, women do work and yes women and men do mix. Contrary to what many say.

Yes, we have some of the best diving sights in the world, and some of the best beaches in the world. Something to enjoy.

Yes, we have a very low crime rate .. and a VERY low cost of living.

Yes, we can list an endless list of negative things to say about Saudi Arabia .. just as there are so many negative things to say about any country .. but there are many good things to be said too.

 

[Hacker]

Hi Wail, thanks for taking the time to respond fully to all the posts. Maybe I should have answered more fully and explained that I enjoyed working in Saudi and many other Middle Eastern countires, the people were always friendly and I personally never had any problems when away from work.

Obviously there are hideous crimes in every country but the attacks I was referring to were the ones committed by extremists who more often than not were not Saudis and involved targetted attacks rather than random violence. As you rightly state some Saudi laws do appear harsh and often do not make sense to those from different cultures but there is an easy answer to that - if you don't like it, don't live there (something many immigrants in these shores should pay heed to).

 

[Susane]

Wow! quite a response to to wake up to ( I'm on nights).
Thank you for all your input into my thread guys.

Everyone has posted opinions from their own experience and perspective and it has made interesting reading.

Wail, well put responses, I have been researching Arabian and Expat information and you are spot on.

Jeff, your experience of Saudi Arabia is broadly what most Expats seem to have who don't isolate themselves, from what I've read so far. I've also been reading about the Bureaucracy(sp?) and of course " Inshalla"

Thank you Gary, Hacker, Carl and Kev, all noted and will be considered in our decision.

Thanks for the suggestion CanonBob.

Ant, thanks for that, we won't be going for the rest of our lives but in any case if we didn't work for the rest of our lives we both have enough NI contributions to qualify for full state pensions and we own two houses which provide income and we are not selling no matter what... as you can see we're not spring chickens.

Thank you peeps.

 

[Wail]

Hacker,

That is a very mature post, by all means; and thank you for the kind words on my country.

The attacks on expatriates that have taken place over the past few years in Saudi have tarnished a lot, and 9/11 did a lot too. That aside, I believe there are many sides to Saudi Arabia that is a rare thing these days.

Of course, me being Saudi do not help my argument since I am biased; but in all fairness, I try to be neutral to all sides. More so, since, I have lived out of Saudi for more than 30 years (25 of that here in UK) and have visited over 50 countries in my life. As such, I try to focus, always, on the positive of any culture and enjoy that. Also, I make it a huge effort to try to appreciate my culture and country’s values by all these visits; for no matter how much better something may be to a specific culture that does not imply it would work if transplanted to another culture.

I would love more people to come to Saudi, and to experience the "extreme" change of pace and culture over there, especially guests from UK as I consider this my 2nd home, and I believe justly so.

When I first moved back to Saudi, after spending my first 24 years here in UK, even for me, it was a huge culture adjustment, but with a bit of maturity I realised there is a nice side to it, just as there is for every other country.

Again, I want more people to come ... and I wish I would be able to give everyone a tour of the good and ugly side of Saudi. We will always disagree on what may be good and ugly. Public beheading (of convicted and self-confessed hard criminals), to me is good; to many is ugly, an extreme example.

Again, thank you for your kind and mature reply.

 

[bookwyse]

Susane, I shall give you a call sometime tomorrow as I am in the middle of studying at the moment.

Wail, What a lot of Westerners fail to understand is that Saudi Arabia is a very very different culture and when they go there fail to try and understand where the Saudi's are coming from. It took myself a while to adapt but once I did throughly enjoyed my time there, including desert treks in 4x4s and a lot of either stuff like camel racing and horse racing. The Janadriyah in Riyadh (went three times) was fantastic and I would encourage anyone in that area to go.

I agree with everything you said about the country and I loved my time there and would still be there if BAE head kept its word to myself but that's another story.

As for the bribes I can only say what I have seen but like I said I do not moan or complain about it because it is a very diffrent culture as you know. I mean how often do people in the UK go into a store and haggle over the price and yet it is common practice and the store owners are quite prepared to haggle back. I got quite good whilst I was there.

Agree with the diving as I loved it!!!!!!!!!

Dont worry about those slagging Saudi off as they have obviously only had a small encounter with a beautiful country and very very friendly people.

Jeff

 

[Wail]

Susan,

I hope things go well for you, and should you move there I hope you do get to enjoy it.

If you want, and would like .. I have a relative of mine studying here. She is a Saudi, works as director of IT for the Saudi National Guard and has a very high post almost reporting to the King! She is here in UK studying and can shed a lot on the pains of women over-there vs. over-here.

On a much lighter note ... If you enjoy shopping, and it seems you're into photography, you will love Saudi .. things there are relatively very cheap! We have no VAT, while import duty is very minimal (2% ~5% max.), that plus the ultra low cost of living means you will have a lot of despoable income to enjoy your shopping sprees.

 

[bookwyse]

Wail

Ma'assalama

as I am off to study some more.

Jeff

 

[Wail]

Jeff,

Your last post put a smile on my face, thank you.

Personally, I hate the price-haggling; but I see how Westerners enjoy it. I much like the way things are here UK where prices are set and that's it.

Another thing that I love about being here vs. in Saudi is the rain, cold and wind. I hear how most maon about this here .. but I love it. Over there it is sun 24/7 and so hot, hotter than hell!

 

[Wail]

Wail

Ma'assalama

as I am off to study some more.

Jeff

As should I, I have a dessertation to submit in 7 weeks and I have yet to start writing .. all TP's fault!

 

[Susane]

Susane, I shall give you a call sometime tomorrow as I am in the middle of studying at the moment.

Wail, What a lot of Westerners fail to understand is that Saudi Arabia is a very very different culture and when they go there fail to try and understand where the Saudi's are coming from. It took myself a while to adapt but once I did throughly enjoyed my time there, including desert treks in 4x4s and a lot of either stuff like camel racing and horse racing. The Janadriyah in Riyadh (went three times) was fantastic and I would encourage anyone in that area to go.

I agree with everything you said about the country and I loved my time there and would still be there if BAE head kept its word to myself but that's another story.

As for the bribes I can only say what I have seen but like I said I do not moan or complain about it because it is a very diffrent culture as you know. I mean how often do people in the UK go into a store and haggle over the price and yet it is common practice and the store owners are quite prepared to haggle back. I got quite good whilst I was there.

Agree with the diving as I loved it!!!!!!!!!

Dont worry about those slagging Saudi off as they have obviously only had a small encounter with a beautiful country and very very friendly people.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff.

Oh dear! I forgot about the diving, I'll never see him! He did tons of that in Honk Kong and Thailand, also worked in "Crash'n'Smash" diving for wreckage in the RAF. I foresee a trip to his parents to pick up his gear.

 

[Susane]

Susan,

I hope things go well for you, and should you move there I hope you do get to enjoy it.

If you want, and would like .. I have a relative of mine studying here. She is a Saudi, works as director of IT for the Saudi National Guard and has a very high post almost reporting to the King! She is here in UK studying and can shed a lot on the pains of women over-there vs. over-here.

On a much lighter note ... If you enjoy shopping, and it seems you're into photography, you will love Saudi .. things there are relatively very cheap! We have no VAT, while import duty is very minimal (2% ~5% max.), that plus the ultra low cost of living means you will have a lot of despoable income to enjoy your shopping sprees.

Thank you Wail I'd love to hear from her if we go, will let you know.
Kingdom malls! I can't wait!

 

[Marcel]

hotter than hell!

And how would you know? lol

 

[Wail]

And how would you know? lol

Oooh don't get me started :nono: with the heat , I am a man who loves snow, BIG time.

 

[Susane]

Another thing that I love about being here vs. in Saudi is the rain, cold and wind. I hear how most maon about this here .. but I love it. Over there it is sun 24/7 and so hot, hotter than hell!

Ah but you need a jumper or coat in winter as you do here because the drop in temperatures (like from 40deg to 15-20deg) can feel quite extreme so I'm told... and I've seen video's of the infrequent rain! cars surfing the roads, potholes flooded, kids dancing about in it like Gene Kelly.