S class S500 2005. Or??

srichards

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I fancy a luxury sort of car with squishy seats and a decent boot. It needs to have sturdy wheels as the roads around here are a disgrace. Stopping for potholes is not an option.

So far I'm torn between several ludicrous cars: 996 911 with 4wd & tiptronic , S class S500, Maserati 4200 and a Porsche Cayenne.

The S500 I've seen is about the cheapest to buy of all the above for what looks like a half decent one. No decent side on close ups of door bottoms or wheel arches as they rust there apparently.

How do you verify mileage on these cars? Many claim 50k and have seats that look like they've been in a zoo.

None of the above are practical in a normal person's sense obviously. It's just bang for buck luxury without running costs that are murderous. Mildly painful I'm used to ;) I don't do a great mileage and would just like something nice and luxurious and not scruffy for a change.

2005/55 reg is the latest I'd want as I'm not paying £500 pa tax. W/X is earliest as they're getting old. Nothing French either. Nor diesel.

Ideas and observations?
 
Until you mentioned sturdy wheels I was going to suggest BMW, but their alloys are terrible for cracking. I ended up getting some after market ones for mine.

As of the cars your asking about, I haven't a clue and the guy who knows a lot about mercs is currently serving a suspension from this site lol
 
Until you mentioned sturdy wheels I was going to suggest BMW, but their alloys are terrible for cracking. I ended up getting some after market ones for mine.

As of the cars your asking about, I haven't a clue and the guy who knows a lot about mercs is currently serving a suspension from this site lol

I heard that as well. Alfa ones are good as my spider will testify. Tyre bloke said he was always going to stricken BMWs with cracked alloys! I tried a 1 series M Sport once but I hated it. Could never get comfortable. Appalling ergonomics. Manual seat wouldn't even go up unless you were out of the car. Even an Alfa will adjust up and down with you sitting on the seat.
 
I heard that as well. Alfa ones are good as my spider will testify. Tyre bloke said he was always going to stricken BMWs with cracked alloys! I tried a 1 series M Sport once but I hated it. Could never get comfortable. Appalling ergonomics. Manual seat wouldn't even go up unless you were out of the car. Even an Alfa will adjust up and down with you sitting on the seat.
Yeh you have to lift your weight off the seat for it to go up lol, that caught me out when I tested one. I went for a 330D M sport, fully spec'd with all the bells and whistles and I love it. Although saying that when I come to replace it I'll be after something bigger. I need an estate so that probably means a 5series.
 
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I didn't realise that BMWs had a reputation for cracking alloy wheels. They're popular in South Africa - I've had two - and our roads make the worst potholes I've seen in the UK look like a smooth, unblemished, surface!
 
I suspect it's partly to do with the low profile elastic band tyres that seem to be fitted these days as well.
 
Cheap "prestige" cars can be money pits. Spares can be rare and hence expensive - not as easy to find in scrappies either!

50,000 miles with loads of stops will show more wear than 250,000 miles of motorway running. Mega milers that have spent most of their life on motorways will also have spent most of their life at little over tickover with few gearchanges, little heavy braking and fewer potholing excursions.
 
I fancy a luxury sort of car with squishy seats and a decent boot. It needs to have sturdy wheels as the roads around here are a disgrace. Stopping for potholes is not an option.

So far I'm torn between several ludicrous cars: 996 911 with 4wd & tiptronic , S class S500, Maserati 4200 and a Porsche Cayenne.

The S500 I've seen is about the cheapest to buy of all the above for what looks like a half decent one. No decent side on close ups of door bottoms or wheel arches as they rust there apparently.

How do you verify mileage on these cars? Many claim 50k and have seats that look like they've been in a zoo.

None of the above are practical in a normal person's sense obviously. It's just bang for buck luxury without running costs that are murderous. Mildly painful I'm used to ;) I don't do a great mileage and would just like something nice and luxurious and not scruffy for a change.

2005/55 reg is the latest I'd want as I'm not paying £500 pa tax. W/X is earliest as they're getting old. Nothing French either. Nor diesel.

Ideas and observations?

I'm like you and I like a cheap luxury barge. My advice would be that mercs of that era are prone to rust and electrical gremlins, Porsche isn't really going to be comfy although a good investment (911), cayenne a bit of a money pit, Maserati I don't know. But anyway I would go for an old V8 Lexus GS or LS - no rust, bulletproof mechanicals, super comfy and real Q cars in my opinion!
 
I'm trying to find one with an honest mileage on it really... I'd rather have one that has done intergalactic miles and has been pampered than one that has done far fewer and consequently everything needs doing.
 
I'm like you and I like a cheap luxury barge. My advice would be that mercs of that era are prone to rust and electrical gremlins, Porsche isn't really going to be comfy although a good investment (911), cayenne a bit of a money pit, Maserati I don't know. But anyway I would go for an old V8 Lexus GS or LS - no rust, bulletproof mechanicals, super comfy and real Q cars in my opinion!

A paint sprayer I was talking to the other day mentioned rust on the mercs. Also MX5s. Both rot boxes. Maserati will be a money pit at any mileage. I think the ones I were looking at have 12k cam belt change intervals.. Electrical gremlins are usually dodgy earths, poor connections or flattening battery. I heard the merc air suspension stays active even with the ignition off which seems like a moronic design decision to me.

The porsche with 4wd and a sun roof is still my favourite. Allegedly the ride quality is supposedly relatively good for a sporty car but I've never even passengered in one so it could be a fat lie.

Not sure about the lexus. I'll have another look :thumbs:
 
I didn't realise that BMWs had a reputation for cracking alloy wheels. They're popular in South Africa - I've had two - and our roads make the worst potholes I've seen in the UK look like a smooth, unblemished, surface!
It's mainly only the bigger sizes like 18" or 19" that are prone to cracking with BMW. Doesn't help with the added stiffness of the runflat tyres BMW use either.

A paint sprayer I was talking to the other day mentioned rust on the mercs. Also MX5s. Both rot boxes. Maserati will be a money pit at any mileage. I think the ones I were looking at have 12k cam belt change intervals.. Electrical gremlins are usually dodgy earths, poor connections or flattening battery. I heard the merc air suspension stays active even with the ignition off which seems like a moronic design decision to me.

The porsche with 4wd and a sun roof is still my favourite. Allegedly the ride quality is supposedly relatively good for a sporty car but I've never even passengered in one so it could be a fat lie.

Not sure about the lexus. I'll have another look (y)

Yes mercs and mazdas are both bad for rust. When I worked for Jaguar in the bodyshop we had a lot of mazda 6's in. This was in 2006 and I was having to REPLACE (not repair) rusted arches and sills on 2004 models. They were worse than my mk2 escort I had at the time. Not sure what they're like now, don't work on them anymore.
 
See I've a real soft spot for a mk2 jag and probably will buy one when I'm thin enough to actually get in and drive one :thumbs: not to keen on modern luxury barges other than the stuff from JLR, was also looking at some classic rollers recently too
 
My choice would be the 996, but then I'm biased since I've owned a 986 the last ten years and love the howl of the flat six when it's wound up. I wouldn't be scared of high mileages, mine is at 116,000 and has been free of major problems, when the transmission came off for its first and only clutch replacement at 98K the garage checked the RMS (reported by some as a failure point) and it was fine.
 
My choice would be the 996, but then I'm biased since I've owned a 986 the last ten years and love the howl of the flat six when it's wound up. I wouldn't be scared of high mileages, mine is at 116,000 and has been free of major problems, when the transmission came off for its first and only clutch replacement at 98K the garage checked the RMS (reported by some as a failure point) and it was fine.

I've just discounted that due to scary repair costs! £6-8k for an engine rebuild if it goes bang. I'm going to ask another specialist though in case the first one is very expensive.

So far my list has ridiculous cam belt changes and expensive suspension, rust and electrical gremlins, scary repair costs or a relatively dull Alfa with moderately scary repair costs. This is why I rarely change cars. Nothing I want is any good. Nothing affordable I actually want.

S class is looking more tempting as it is a nice colour and it's less money to throw away. It's at the same place as the Porsche as well. They seem to have quite a few interesting cars which could prove my downfall :)
 
One thought; a few years back there was a minor scandal about Mercs having been clocked by dealers abusing the service mileage reset codes. Ask to see as much paperwork as possible and check the old MoTs for recorded mileages.
 
One thought; a few years back there was a minor scandal about Mercs having been clocked by dealers abusing the service mileage reset codes. Ask to see as much paperwork as possible and check the old MoTs for recorded mileages.

I basically assume all of them have a displayed mileage that isn't accurate. I mentally add on 10k for each keeper change and another 10k for each time it has disappeared into a dealer. If I get an honest one then it's a bonus :)

Any that have had a string of owners for a short time I'd write off as a money pit even if there was nothing in the history.
 
I basically assume all of them have a displayed mileage that isn't accurate. I mentally add on 10k for each keeper change and another 10k for each time it has disappeared into a dealer. If I get an honest one then it's a bonus :)

Any that have had a string of owners for a short time I'd write off as a money pit even if there was nothing in the history.
Aye lots of owners for me is a big no no. Noat yer how well its been kept. I was lucky I found my bmw with only one owner from new and full bmw service history
 
I've just discounted that due to scary repair costs! £6-8k for an engine rebuild if it goes bang. I'm going to ask another specialist though in case the first one is very expensive.
That figure sounds about right for a full engine rebuild if it decides to grenade itself. To give you a comparison, I was quoted £2200 for a top end rebuild with new cam gear (camshafts, valves, rockers and ancilliaries like belts) on my boring diesel Audi after the cam belt failed (not due to age but a bizarre problem), by the local garage that charges £48/hr labour, not the Audi main dealer. I ended up buying a complete second hand engine from a scrapper and getting them to swap it, as it turned out it was going to need at least new pistons as well.

So, £6k+ for a full engine rebuild, absolutely. In all honesty I'm not convinced an engine rebuild following a catastrophic failure on your other options will be much cheaper (and, well, a Maserati, lovely though they are, would bankrupt me!)
 
I've had my fair share of large luxury cars, guess my Mercedes GL still fits in that category as well.

I've never been hit with huge bills, unless you go down the main dealer route for those. Future more with the engines being so powerful the load on them is barely anything. They go on and on and on.

Clocking is an issue. Besides the normal obvious signs like worn rubber on the pedals, or seats that don't match the low mileage. I normally plug in my laptop with the appropriate tools, and go through the logs. Once looking at s BMW 760 up for sale with 85,000 miles I noticed a misfire fault logged at 221,000 miles inside the computer ;) the independent was busy with someone else, so I used my computer to lock the car and walked off.

Another one I would include in that list is an Audi S8. Nice and big, all wheel drive, relatively light. Just check the body work as the alu can be a pain to get fixed.
 
I think I'll end up buying more camera gear at this rate.... ;)
 
I think I'll end up buying more camera gear at this rate.... ;)

They'll be horrid problems with every car/manufacturer if you read into it. I was going round and round in circles when I was looking for a new one. I ended up going for the 330D though in hope that it keeps up to par with the other 6cyl engines in reliability and longetivity. I had an E36 328i (2.8 petrol) that I got up to 380k miles and it still brought a smile to my face every time I got in it. It's still on the road today and soon to hit 500k miles on the original engine :eek:

A bit of preventative maintenance never goes a miss with most modern cars.
 
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Wow. I thought a mate with a calibra turbo on 210k was doing well!

Alfa gt is probably the lowest risk option. More of a known devil...
 
Wow. I thought a mate with a calibra turbo on 210k was doing well!

Alfa gt is probably the lowest risk option. More of a known devil...
A calibra doing 210k miles is doing very well ;) let alone a turbo version.

A Mercedes S500 will easily do five times that without major troubles. Just usual servicing and serviceable parts.
 
A chap I used to work with got rather upset that he had to have a top end rebuild on his saab after only 260K miles ... ;)

Have you thought about a Jaguar at all? later ones are generally very reliable and very well made, they have a superb diesel engine too (V6 twin turbo) that is remarkably smooth and the chassis tend to pamper :) - I had an S-Type for many years and wish I'd never got rid.

EDIT numerical dyslexia ... sorry
 
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Jaguars are a bit Rover 75. They don't really appeal.

Will have a look at Audi s8s as well. 4wd is appealing :thumbs:
 
Cayene diesel or Q7 diesel is your best bet for these awful roads. Don't discount top of the range Land Cruiser or Tuareg either. Or maybe you could find a nice imported Dodge RAM. It is nice driving something big and invincible and look down on small slow cars.
 
I fancy a luxury sort of car with squishy seats and a decent boot. It needs to have sturdy wheels as the roads around here are a disgrace. Stopping for potholes is not an option.

So far I'm torn between several ludicrous cars: 996 911 with 4wd & tiptronic , S class S500, Maserati 4200 and a Porsche Cayenne.

The S500 I've seen is about the cheapest to buy of all the above for what looks like a half decent one. No decent side on close ups of door bottoms or wheel arches as they rust there apparently.

How do you verify mileage on these cars? Many claim 50k and have seats that look like they've been in a zoo.

None of the above are practical in a normal person's sense obviously. It's just bang for buck luxury without running costs that are murderous. Mildly painful I'm used to ;) I don't do a great mileage and would just like something nice and luxurious and not scruffy for a change.

2005/55 reg is the latest I'd want as I'm not paying £500 pa tax. W/X is earliest as they're getting old. Nothing French either. Nor diesel.

Ideas and observations?

Enormous apologies if you have considered this or have owned previously but the cars you mention might be in the range of £20-30k to buy, but their running costs are still those of a car costing £100k. I mention this as you didn't like the idea of road tax of £500/yr and were looking at used, which made me think you might have to stick to a budget. The cars you mention are not really budget friendly, so I figured I'd write this post.

Excluding fuel, insurance and road tax, you can easily expect a 911 of any flavour to set you back a minimum (assuming nothing major goes wrong...unlikely pre 991 (2011)) £5k/year. S class would be slightly cheaper at around £3k (AMG £5k+). Maserati would come in at around £6-10k per year (possibly more) and a Cayenne similar to a 911, probably 20% more.

This is friendly advice mate but make sure you know what you're getting into. A 996 C4S from 2002 might seem cheap at around £20k or so, but they have a very strong reputation for their engines exploding and at £15k a pop, including Porsche goodwill subsidy which you're not guaranteed to get, it's not for everyone. Porsche have also never officially admitted there is an issue with their W/C engines from 98 to 2011, have a read around.......they did make alterations, which confirmed the issue, but did not admit it. However, the issue of exploding engines does not have only one cause! Some genuine experts in the brand estimate failure rates could be up to 25%, with a rather significant embarrassment factor and cover up taking place. Personally, out of 5 owners of such vehicles, 3 of them failed completely over the years, at varying mileages, from 8k to 48k, if memory serves.

My personal opinon...Porsche water cooled models from 1998 to 2010 are not what I would consider reliable at all. The 991 supposedly changed this, when released in 2011, but its price remains rather high as a result. That said, a turbo model from any year is a sound bet as they use different engines to the other models. but prices match accordingly, starting at £40k for an early water cooled model in decent shape. Air cooled 911 fine and a collectors item, any turbo fine and a collectors item, watercooled N/A, nope. Not in a month of sundays unless it's a 991 or later.

Just my 2p mate having been through the debacle myself. I've had a 911 W/C an S class and did 6 months of research on Maserati before deciding to buy some scratch cards instead. Current car is a loaner Audi A5 whilst ours gets repaired for the 6th time. New car coming soon I think.

I hope the above helps in some way. Not at all intending to be critical of you or your ideas.

PS. Just read up and I notice at least one fault of the 911, the RMS, has been discussed already. I'm glad but the engine issues are not limited to the 996 model or the RMS. A rebuild has not been possible for many owners either, so do use my higher estimate, basically a new engine (retail price) when considering. Unfortunately for Porsche, it was much more serious than that. Truth be told, I'm not even sure the 991 has remedied all of the issues. I sound anti-Porsche but they are actually my favourite car brand but their reputation I feel was severely damaged. A 911 turbo is on my horizon, but not for a few years yet.
 
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I should have said....in your position, I'd be looking for either a Lexus RX, VW Touareg or a Land Rover Discovery. Maserati, Porsche or even S500's, dont really like pot holes anyway. :)
 
Imo no car likes potholes.
 
Cayene diesel or Q7 diesel is your best bet for these awful roads. Don't discount top of the range Land Cruiser or Tuareg either. Or maybe you could find a nice imported Dodge RAM. It is nice driving something big and invincible and look down on small slow cars.
No stinking clattering diesels will ever be considered!
 
The s class I've seen was 7k so if it had something that would cost a massive amount it would be binned.

Porsche independents will be cheaper than Porsche themselves and hartech do do a scheme where by you only pay for parts. It's a reasonable amount if you source a car from them. .

I've had cars that cost £2k a year or so regularly so assumed £3k would be reasonable for exotica I was looking at.

My regular garage does Alfa, lancia and Maserati and I think it'd cost less than £3k pa apart from on years when the cam belt needs doing or the ball joints wanted doing :)
 
Excluding fuel, insurance and road tax, you can easily expect a 911 of any flavour to set you back a minimum (assuming nothing major goes wrong...unlikely pre 991 (2011)) £5k/year.
Averaged over 10 years / 70,000 miles of ownership, my 986S has cost me circa £1,200/year for maintenance, excluding tyres which I don't keep track of - fronts last at least 40,000 miles, rears about 17-18,000. I will say that I never bothered to fix the aircon when it failed as I can just open the roof, so there's a potential bill for several hundred pounds not included in that (the radiators at the front had rusted through and no longer hold the refrigerant). That's the water cooled flat six, 3.2L rather than the 3.4L or 3.6L in 996. I have had no major failures, typically just wearing items like the clutch. The previous owner asserted that neither the RMS or IMS had failed or been replaced.

I use an independent specialist and not an OPC, so labour rates are cheaper, but I don't get a bod in a suit come to tell me all the stuff the mechanic just told him about my car, or a leather sofa to sit on with a big flatscreen telly to watch while I wait for someone to talk to me.
 
No stinking clattering diesels will ever be considered!

I don't know why you insist on the car with far worse fuel economy, considerably more noise and far more emissions. Buy a Nissan Leaf maybe if you like no smell at all.
 
Diesels are noisier than petrols, and whilst some aspects of the exhaust fumes are less than a petrol, other aspects are significantly higher. Fuel economy is better but here diesel is more expensive per litre. Big cities such as London and Paris are investigating banning diesels. Others dislike the different driving characteristics as well.
 
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I must admit given what the OP has said I say lexus and defo no high pollution noisy diesels
 
I looked at Lexus but I don't like the styling of them. Discounted jags even though they're cheap as chips.

Now wondering whether an SLK280 on a 2006 or later plate would be a better idea. Then I'm out of the crapper build quality era of Merc. Interior really isn't as nice looking as on the SL. It looks cheap. But it is a lot less of a behemoth and still has the folding roof thing. I think it also has Air scarf or sommat which the SL doesn't.
 
I didn't realise that BMWs had a reputation for cracking alloy wheels.

It's more likely that alloy wheels have a reputation for cracking.

Do you mean alloy or should that be aluminium?


Steve.
 
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