Rude or not rude?!

erm, boobs anyone? :D :woot:
 
onona said:
Errmm... no. The notion of a "right judgement" is entirely a man-made concept; expecting a natural ability to do it is like expecting a peach to behave like a telephone. Even morality is a man-made concept.
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I'm not sure what you're saying here. In part you seem to be agreeing with what I said, but by your tone you're not. :shrug:

Mans judgement cannot be relied upon as a measure of how to live. In ends in disaster. Always.

If we concede that morality is manmade, then we're also headed for disaster. If we suggest that morality doesn't exist, then enter pandemonium!

onona said:
That said, there is plenty of scientific research that demonstrates that humans are inately altruistic. Altruism is even observed in many animal species as well - because animals and humans instinctively know that being kind to one another is, in fact, beneficial for the species.
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This is dictated by conscience. We all have it, but it can be suppressed. E.g. the first time a man steals, he finds it difficult. He knows it's wrong. However, every subsequent act of theft is easier.

But, going by my experience of people generally, we tend to do what's expected of us because this is what advances us in society. It looks good on the outside, but it's generally selfish. And most act selfishly, that's why divorce is rampant, and infidelity is acceptable.

onona said:
This is religious garbage.
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Theology is a science. You may disagree with the sentiments, but it's a science nonetheless.

I'll just add, I'm no expert. I do a bit of reading and a fair amount of thinking.
These are my observations, and I respect your right to disagree. I'll just add that you will never come to the truth about anything if you have a fixed presupposition you never challenge.
 
EYE_ON_ME said:
Wow this is getting rather deep........
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I love boobies!
 
tomah said:
Mans judgement cannot be relied upon as a measure of how to live. In ends in disaster. Always.

If we concede that morality is manmade, then we're also headed for disaster. If we suggest that morality doesn't exist, then enter pandemonium!
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If mans judgement cannot be trusted then whos ?

Again if morality is not manmade then by whom ?

your posts seem to be be infering some superior power at work or am I picking you up wrong ?
 
Southdowns said:
And no, I don't think everyone's opinion should be respected. Their right to hold (but not act on) one should, but not the opinion itself. Hitler was entitled to believe the Jews were inferior, but wasn't entitled to act on that, and his view did NOT deserve to be respected. Not all opinions are of equal merit.
Mark
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Ok, maybe I should explain myself again, because I believe you've missed my point. Forget Hitler because trying to rationalise Hitlers thoughts, ideas and beliefs are outside the realms of our discussion. I did not mention acting on an opinion. I said this females opinion should be respected and as I read it, you basically agreed with me by saying her right to hold an opinion should be respected. Respect breeds understanding and that can only be a good thing. BTW I deal with teenagers and young people during my work and I try not to judge or be prejudiced.
 
Tioc said:
If mans judgement cannot be trusted then whos ?

Again if morality is not manmade then by whom ?

your posts seem to be be infering some superior power at work or am I picking you up wrong ?
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That's not how I'd put it, but if you exclude the possibility of a higher power, you've simply no reliable source to govern what's right and what's wrong. None. Live and let live goes to chaotic ends.

It's like letting the plaintiff and the defendant in a courtroom, decide whether something was a crime. There's no answer. There needs to be a law given by a objective party. No human or government is in a position to do this. History proves it.

It's a hard fact to swallow, so I don't expect many to do so. It's worth thinking over, though.
 
tomah said:
That's not how I'd put it, but if you exclude the possibility of a higher power, you've simply no reliable source to govern what's right and what's wrong. None. Live and let live goes to chaotic ends.

It's like letting the plaintiff and the defendant in a courtroom, decide whether something was a crime. There's no answer. There needs to be a law given by a objective party. No human or government is in a position to do this. History proves it.

It's a hard fact to swallow, so I don't expect many to do so. It's worth thinking over, though.
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Not really the place for this debate, so agree to disagree I think :thumbs:
 
tomah said:
That's not how I'd put it, but if you exclude the possibility of a higher power, you've simply no reliable source to govern what's right and what's wrong.
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This is an exceedingly fallacious argument that is somehow always brought up by people who cannot think outside the confines of what they've been brainwashed with (and let's face it, religion relies on brainwashing, usually in childhood when young minds are extremely susceptible to suggestion, or during periods of desperation as an adult, in order to perpetuate in our culture; indoctrination is not the same as making a rational decision based on observable phenomena and rational thinking).

To do good simply to avoid the wrath of an invisible fairy in the sky, and to reap rewards in some longed-for afterlife is not, in my view, a noble reason to do good; I'm an atheist and I am a moral person because at the end of the day, I have to live with the consequences of my own actions, and I am my own harshest judge.

Theology is a science. You may disagree with the sentiments, but it's a science nonetheless.
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NO. Theology is NOT a science. Science is based on empirical evidence that can be demonstrated repeatedly, and without manipulation, through testing, peer review, and more testing. Theology and religion are the polar opposite of this approach, as they rely entirely on non-thinking and blind acceptance (in other words, faith, as mentioned below). To suggest that they are in any way similar is an insult to scientific thinking.

Religion is based entirely on something called faith. Faith is not scientific; on the contrary it is clinging to a belief despite any supporting evidence, and in some cases, even empirical evidence to the contrary.

Do you believe in unicorns? I don't, because there's no evidence to suggest they've ever existed. Likewise, there's absolutely no evidence to support the idea that deities exist. Until such time as someone can prove this, it's safe to assume they're not there. In which case, we need to get on with our civilisation, shed our superstitions and move forward as a species. All religion does is create divides within our species, and spread hate and bigotry. There is nothing redeeming about it.

So where were we? Oh yeah, underwear and bikinis show the same amount of skin. If you have a problem with one of them, chances are you don't actually have a problem with the clothing, you have a problem with the body, and haven't quite given enough thought to the whole matter.
 
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onona said:
This is an exceedingly fallacious argument that is somehow always brought up by people who cannot think outside the confines of what they've been brainwashed with (and let's face it, religion relies on brainwashing, usually in childhood when young minds are extremely susceptible to suggestion, or during periods of desperation as an adult, in order to perpetuate in our culture; indoctrination is not the same as making a rational decision based on observable phenomena and rational thinking).

To do good simply to avoid the wrath of an invisible fairy in the sky, and to reap rewards in some longed-for afterlife is not, in my view, a noble reason to do good; I'm an atheist and I am a moral person because at the end of the day, I have to live with the consequences of my own actions, and I am my own harshest judge.



NO. Theology is NOT a science. Science is based on empirical evidence that can be demonstrated repeatedly, and without manipulation, through testing, peer review, and more testing. Theology and religion are the polar opposite of this approach, as they rely entirely on non-thinking and blind acceptance (in other words, faith, as mentioned below). To suggest that they are in any way similar is an insult to scientific thinking.

Religion is based entirely on something called faith. Faith is not scientific; on the contrary it is clinging to a belief despite any supporting evidence, and in some cases, even empirical evidence to the contrary.

Do you believe in unicorns? I don't, because there's no evidence to suggest they've ever existed. Likewise, there's absolutely no evidence to support the idea that deities exist. Until such time as someone can prove this, it's safe to assume they're not there. In which case, we need to get on with our civilisation, shed our superstitions and move forward as a species. All religion does is create divides within our species, and spread hate and bigotry. There is nothing redeeming about it.

So where were we? Oh yeah, underwear and bikinis show the same amount of skin. If you have a problem with one of them, chances are you don't actually have a problem with the clothing, you have a problem with the body, and haven't quite given enough thought to the whole matter.
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Just a few points to clear up assumptions.

I wasn't brought up to believe in a higher power. I wasn't brainwashed. I have never hit rock bottom. And I also thought religion was the source of most of the world's problems.

Indeed, most of my life I was an ardent atheist.

But, then I realised that being consistent with such a belief ultimately requires that I hold to the absurd idea that... nothing created everything.

I held onto it for a long time nonetheless, because it suited me. But I couldn't get away from it. Keep going back into the eons of time far enough, and the ultimate and only conclusion (outside a higher power) is that nothing created everything.

I appreciate where you're coming from onona. I've been there. I was reading Hawkings, 'The Universe in a Nutshell' whenever I became convinced there is a higher power. Strange, but true.

Also, theology is not a science if you change the meaning of the word science, which is what has been done over the last century. But, it's been considered a science for longer than it hasn't been.

Some people consider the body sacred and something to be enjoyed privately with a committed spouse, and not by a lewd and shameless society where neither sex has any respect for each other.

Anyway, I'll not perpetuate this any more. No hard feelings, and I appreciate the discussion.
 
tomah said:
Just a few points to clear up assumptions.

I wasn't brought up to believe in a higher power. I wasn't brainwashed. I have never hit rock bottom. And I also thought religion was the source of most of the world's problems.

Indeed, most of my life I was an ardent atheist.

But, then I realised that being consistent with such a belief ultimately requires that I hold to the absurd idea that... nothing created everything.

I held onto it for a long time nonetheless, because it suited me. But I couldn't get away from it. Keep going back into the eons of time far enough, and the ultimate and only conclusion (outside a higher power) is that nothing created everything.

I appreciate where you're coming from onona. I've been there. I was reading Hawkings, 'The Universe in a Nutshell' whenever I became convinced there is a higher power. Strange, but true.

Also, theology is not a science if you change the meaning of the word science, which is what has been done over the last century. But, it's been considered a science for longer than it hasn't been.

Some people consider the body sacred and something to be enjoyed privately with a committed spouse, and not by a lewd and shameless society where neither sex has any respect for each other.

Anyway, I'll not perpetuate this any more. No hard feelings, and I appreciate the discussion.
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If there is a higher power or universal intelligence then you can be pretty sure that it is completely impersonal and cares not one bit about anything that appears to happen in the illusory world of duality and egos.
 
I'm fairly sure that the higher power on here exists - hes a big bloke looks a bit like ross kemp - and hath decreed commandments written in tablets of electrons that state no politics or religion :lol:
 
I just like naked women.

I need to see as many as possible before I die.
 
odd jim said:
I just like naked women.

I need to see as many as possible before I die.
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Mmm, Boobies.
 
odd jim said:
I just like naked women.

I need to see as many as possible before I die.
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I'm setting my sights much lower - one naked woman would be nice. I'm having a bit of a drought lately...
 
specialman said:
I'm setting my sights much lower - one naked woman would be nice. I'm having a bit of a drought lately...
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That'll be because of your lame jokes!
 
Just to forewarn the lady in question, I have just seen the new Ann Summers ad on ITV, it's full of women in their underwear with suggestive overtones, thank god for pause and rewind tv.......I nearly missed it :D

Maybe she should stick with the beeb and no adverts :cool:

Phil.
 
phil8139 said:
Just to forewarn the lady in question, I have just seen the new Ann Summers ad on ITV, it's full of women in their underwear with suggestive overtones, thank god for pause and rewind tv.......I nearly missed it :D

Maybe she should stick with the beeb and no adverts :cool:

Phil.
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I think it is a shame. When something is in your face all day long, it no longer is special
 
But it's not mine so it stays special ;) You can look at the menu even if you're on a diet.
 
is it just me or is anyone else having trouble understanding Onona and tomah's posts.:'(

My dictionary is wearing pretty thin at the moment.:p

spike
 
SpikeK6 said:
is it just me or is anyone else having trouble understanding Onona and tomah's posts.:'(

My dictionary is wearing pretty thin at the moment.:p

spike
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Dont worry, just go back to dreaming of boobs :p
 
tomah said:
Just a few points to clear up assumptions.

I wasn't brought up to believe in a higher power. I wasn't brainwashed. I have never hit rock bottom. And I also thought religion was the source of most of the world's problems.
Indeed, most of my life I was an ardent atheist.
But, then I realised that being consistent with such a belief ultimately requires that I hold to the absurd idea that... nothing created everything.
I held onto it for a long time nonetheless, because it suited me. But I couldn't get away from it. Keep going back into the eons of time far enough, and the ultimate and only conclusion (outside a higher power) is that nothing created everything.
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tomah said:
The idea that nothing created everything is only absurd, as it does not fit into our human thought process.
To even think that a higher power created everything, just creates a paradox of whom/what created the higher power and so on.
Throughout history, every time humans do not understand something, the tendency is to explain it as the working of a higher power. Once science explains something, those original thoughts are just forgotten about.


onona said:
T
Science is based on empirical evidence that can be demonstrated repeatedly, and without manipulation, through testing, peer review, and more testing. Theology and religion are the polar opposite of this approach, as they rely entirely on non-thinking and blind acceptance (in other words, faith, as mentioned below). To suggest that they are in any way similar is an insult to scientific thinking.
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onona said:
We live in a world that is ticking over thanks to the advancement in science. As Leigh (Onona) stated, science is based on evidence, and to date there is not one scientific shred of evidence to support a higher power at work.
I am sure in the future science will provide further insight as to the workings of the universe. It may never have all the answers, and it could be that our brains can’t comprehend the complexity of what it is all about. That however does not mean we should suggest a higher power is responsible, just because we don’t have the answers.
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The girl made a comment, I thought the question from the OP was. " Does anyone else think wearing a bra for a shoot is rude? " Some of the answers given imo seem to ridicule her for this. In context out of context does it really matter that much :shrug: Anyone with half a brain could work out what she actually meant by saying it was rude even if it was not the right choice of word to use in this day and age. I ask the question "Who are we to judge?" ;)
 
Peter10d said:
The idea that nothing created everything is only absurd, as it does not fit into our human thought process.
To even think that a higher power created everything, just creates a paradox of whom/what created the higher power and so on.
Throughout history, every time humans do not understand something, the tendency is to explain it as the working of a higher power. Once science explains something, those original thoughts are just forgotten about.
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I think the answer will be revealed tonight on Discovery HD at 9pm..... 'Did God create the Universe' :thumbs:

Phil.
 
tomah said:
But, then I realised that being consistent with such a belief ultimately requires that I hold to the absurd idea that... nothing created everything.
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I think you'll find that most people think that's absurd. In fact, the only people I've ever seen bringing up that concept are creationists, because they know absolutely nothing about science; no rational thinker I've ever known claimed that "nothing created everything".

I appreciate where you're coming from onona.
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Actually, I don't think you do. But okay.

Also, theology is not a science if you change the meaning of the word science, which is what has been done over the last century. But, it's been considered a science for longer than it hasn't been.
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The only people who consider theology a science are people that aren't very scientific.

Some people consider the body sacred and something to be enjoyed privately with a committed spouse, and not by a lewd and shameless society where neither sex has any respect for each other.
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How ironic then that it's religion that is most to blame for a lack of respect for women. Maybe if Abrahamic religion hadn't run a smear campaign against women for the last two millennia, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because you'd see a woman's body as something purely natural, instead of some kind of ridiculous vessel of sin.

Nudity is not sex.
 
big soft moose said:
I'm fairly sure that the higher power on here exists - hes a big bloke looks a bit like ross kemp - and hath decreed commandments written in tablets of electrons that state no politics or religion :lol:
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Apologies, I did not realise this was a taboo topic around here.

I do quite like the idea of a deity that looks like Ross Kemp though, I must say. At least he'd be a deity you could have a beer and a chat with, without being judged!
 
phil8139 said:
I think the answer will be revealed tonight on Discovery HD at 9pm..... 'Did God create the Universe' :thumbs:

Phil.
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I will certainly be watching it, but I guess some will avoid it as they may not wish to listen to an alternative to the 'written word'

big soft moose said:
I'm fairly sure that the higher power on here exists - hes a big bloke looks a bit like ross kemp - and hath decreed commandments written in tablets of electrons that state no politics or religion :lol:
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No discussion on religion that's a pity:thinking:
I guess we will just have to return to an intellectual discussion of underwear, boobies and nudes:nuts:
 
Peter10d said:
I guess we will just have to return to an intellectual discussion of underwear, boobies and nudes :nuts:
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dearie me , how will we cope:naughty:
 
specialman said:
Oh sod it - if no one else will do it, I'll put up the first pic of a booby.....
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beat me to it , but at least this pic features a real bird


















bluefootedbooby2_1.jpg
 
tomah said:
Theology is a science. You may disagree with the sentiments, but it's a science nonetheless.
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ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha :lol::lol::lol:



seriously



ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha




best post I've seen in ages
 
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