Rude or not rude?!

[Splog]

Haha being from Birmingham I cab relate

Not being from Birmingham.... I don't know what that is? but it sounds like it's good fun

 

[Mac123]

You should see broad st in Birmingham on a weekend night, more underwear on show than Corries underworld factory!

In some places, you're more likely to trip over the underwear before you see it....

 

[MWHCVT]

What an interesting read that was I consider myself to be quite old fashioned in relation to my attitudes and morals but I don't really have an issue if the woman who is being photographed is totally comfortable being photographed like that then what's the issue and I work with a fellow member who is a DJ and to be frank some of the sights that we see on a weekly basis are quite shocking when it comes to the amount of clothes or lack of them

Matt
MWHCVT

 

[POAH]

sad really that quite a high number of men talk about women like this

like what?

 

[joescrivens]

this thread is useless without pictures

so ............

 

[MJ Stebbings]

like what?

That her attitude towards an art form is narrow minded and ignorant?
That her views on such things are prehistoric and madness from a 20 year old?

She obviously isnt comfortable in her own skin.
Personally, If I had the body of some of the male models out there, I'd walk around naked all the time, let alone model for a photographer.
Some of these girls that do glamour and lingerie shots have bodies that most women would give their right arm for. Maybe she is jealous.

Either way, her opinion that these images are rude made me laugh so hard, I spat tea on my computer screen, clean up job!

 

[tomah]

Assuming I'm picking up on the OP correctly, I think the female friend has a refreshing perspective.

This generation is very dull when it comes to valuing certain things. Nothing is sacred, or private, and most have become so perverted the boundaries of what is acceptable are almost non-existent.

I'm not going to start talking about the psychological damage its having, but all the pill-popping, anti-depressants, insecurities, and suicide, have a lot to do with the general acceptance of perverted standards we see everywhere, especially in advertising, fashion, and the media.

You may laugh, but if it was your daughter, you might be glad that she's not into showing her body off to the world for cash.

btw, I'm not looking down on anyone. I've been as guilty as anyone in the past. But, my views on this kind of thing have changed, and I'd never want to be part of what is contributing to the destruction of our society.

P.S. OP, feel free to read this to your friend. She's not alone .

 

[Richard King]

Morning all,

Well I was talking to a female friend just a moment ago about photography, and how ladies model, and she thinks it's rude when the have photos taken in underwear, and in a bikini it's different as that's what the should wear on the beach etc. Does anyone else think wearing a bra for a shoot is rude?

context is everything. In a littlewoods catalog, selling underwear, not rude

Running around the chamber of the house of commons - rude

 

[Skips]

The woman has some personal standards. That's not a bad thing.

You know that these days the clothing advertised to your average 14-18 year old is what prostitutes would have worn in the 1950s?

Is showing off more skin really a sign that we are a more advanced society?

On the subject of bra vs. bikini. I know some girls (who have stunning bodies and know it) that will always where something over because that's where their moral standards lie.

 

[odd jim]

I have to say, watching Emily Scott on I'm a Celebrity wandering around in her bikini made my evenings.

It was the only reason to watch that rubbish!

 

[Splog]

I have to say, watching Emily Scott on I'm a Celebrity wandering around in her bikini made my evenings.

It was the only reason to watch that rubbish!

Jess for me...... but she's out now

 

[odd jim]

Yeah she wasn't bad either!

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Why do people have to come in this thread and start taking the morla high-ground
I dont think that modern society is more perverse, I believe we are more accepting of the way people are. It wasnt that many years ago that gays were frowned upon for their sexuallity, or that racism was a real issue. Now, we are more accepting of people for being who they are and what they believe in.

If it was my daughter and she wanted to be a glamour model, as long as she is safe, I'd be happy. If she wanted to do pornography then that would be a different thing, last thing that I want to happen is be "browsing" the internet and end up watching her with a man doing the whole birds and bee's thing

 

[POAH]

Why do people have to come in this thread and start taking the morla high-ground
I dont think that modern society is more perverse, I believe we are more accepting of the way people are. It wasnt that many years ago that gays were frowned upon for their sexuallity, or that racism was a real issue. Now, we are more accepting of people for being who they are and what they believe in.

If it was my daughter and she wanted to be a glamour model, as long as she is safe, I'd be happy. If she wanted to do pornography then that would be a different thing, last thing that I want to happen is be "browsing" the internet and end up watching her with a man doing the whole birds and bee's thing

tbf gays are still frowned upon and the country is as racist as ever.

 

[tomah]

Why do people have to come in this thread and start taking the morla high-ground

Maybe because prior to that, others came in to contribute their derogatory statements about the OP's friend.

Speaking personally, I wasn't taking the moral high-ground so much as just bringing perspective

 

[MJ Stebbings]

tbf gays are still frowned upon and the country is as racist as ever.

Only by you

I really do beg to differ with that point though, There was a time when people believed homosexuallity was contagious..... oh how I love some people.
Also, at least coloured people dont have seperate parts of the bus now. I do feel racism has become worse in recent years, but go back maybe 15 years and it wasnt that bad at all.

Maybe because prior to that, others came in to contribute their derogatory statements about the OP's friend.

Speaking personally, I wasn't taking the moral high-ground so much as just bringing perspective

Ahhh, thats just people being people. One thing about forums is your cant always read how people come across. A joke maybe taken seriously if someone forgets a "lol" at the end.

And we dont need perspective, we need more gorgeous young ladies taking their clothes off in the name of our art!

 

[odd jim]

I FOR ONE LOVE BOOBIES!!!! The more I can see the better, and the happier and more enhanced my life is.

 

[Splog]

tbf gays are still frowned upon and the country is as racist as ever.

tbf. ?????

 

[Peter10d]

tbf. ?????

Could it be.......

to be frank?

 

[Mac123]

That her attitude towards an art form is narrow minded and ignorant?
That her views on such things are prehistoric and madness from a 20 year old?

She obviously isnt comfortable in her own skin.
Personally, If I had the body of some of the male models out there, I'd walk around naked all the time <snip>

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm happy in my skin, but I still wouldn't get naked in front of a camera. Even if I had a body like Adonis, I still wouldn't undress for the camera. She is entitled to her opinion and it should be respected.

 

[Splog]

to be frank?

Aw shucks! ........ I thought tonight it was my turn to be Frank...

 

[onona]

Morning all,

Well I was talking to a female friend just a moment ago about photography, and how ladies model, and she thinks it's rude when the have photos taken in underwear, and in a bikini it's different as that's what the should wear on the beach etc. Does anyone else think wearing a bra for a shoot is rude?

What a bizarre attitude. It doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense.

By "rude", I'm assuming she means sexualised. Sexualised imagery is almost entirely about context and pose, not the clothing or a lack thereof. You can have sexual imagery of fully clothed people, and non-sexual imagery of nudes, because it's not about the clothing.

This reminds me of this Philosoraptor I saw earlier in the week. I really do find people's hang ups about nudity and underwear and whatnot totally absurd. And I'm a woman too, for what it's worth.

 

[skiking]

As I understand the OP, it appears that they have asked a 'friend' to model for them but when they have asked to do lingerie she has said 'No' - you have to applaud that, that is her right to say No. Keep her as a friend - she appears to have morale's - and find someone else, that perhaps, doesn't mind getting their kit off.

As for the 'Rude' bit, if you think about it it would seem awkward whereby one friend strips of and the other takes pics. I'd prefer to use someone I don't know to save my own embarrassment - or is that just me ?

 

[Southdowns]

As I understand the OP, it appears that they have asked a 'friend' to model for them but when they have asked to do lingerie she has said 'No'

Where do you get that from? That's not what the OP said or implied at all; they were just having a chat about what is and isn't acceptable.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

As I understand the OP, it appears that they have asked a 'friend' to model for them but when they have asked to do lingerie she has said 'No' - you have to applaud that, that is her right to say No. Keep her as a friend - she appears to have morale's - and find someone else, that perhaps, doesn't mind getting their kit off.

As for the 'Rude' bit, if you think about it it would seem awkward whereby one friend strips of and the other takes pics. I'd prefer to use someone I don't know to save my own embarrassment - or is that just me ?

You've missed the whole point
The OP didnt ask to take her picture, was just they were having a convo and thats what she said.
Or maybe the OP is lying, and asked her to get her kit off..... You know what these youngsters are like, trying it as a chat up line

 

[EYE_ON_ME]

You've missed the whole point
The OP didnt ask to take her picture, was just they were having a convo and thats what she said.
Or maybe the OP is lying, and asked her to get her kit off..... You know what these youngsters are like, trying it as a chat up line

Haha very funny comments here, the girl works with me and when I was on break looking at the the TP photo section we got talking about it, I never asked her to model.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Haha very funny comments here, the girl works with me and when I was on break looking at the the TP photo section we got talking about it, I never asked her to model.

LIES..... you pervert

 

[EYE_ON_ME]

LIES..... you pervert

Lol she also said does your over half know you look at naked girls? Because if it was her bf she would go mad!! That just made me laugh.

 

[Southdowns]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm happy in my skin, but I still wouldn't get naked in front of a camera. Even if I had a body like Adonis, I still wouldn't undress for the camera. She is entitled to her opinion and it should be respected.

Just read back and saw various points I'd love to respond to, but I'm a bit late generally.

The OP's friend, as far as we can tell, wasn't talking about whether or not she'd do it herself, she was saying it was "rude" for anyone to. Clearly, even if she's right in some contexts, that view is a massive over-simplification.

And no, I don't think everyone's opinion should be respected. Their right to hold (but not act on) one should, but not the opinion itself. Hitler was entitled to believe the Jews were inferior, but wasn't entitled to act on that, and his view did NOT deserve to be respected. Not all opinions are of equal merit.

By the way, I'd like those that talk about "this generation" being less moral than before (you know who you are), to actually spend some time with REAL, normal youngsters. In my experience they have morals that are far more sensible and pragmatic than even my own generation's (I'm 47). I'm sick to the hind teeth of having my daughters, who are both twenty, and all their friends, lumped in with the minority who get all the press, and even more sick of people who take what the press tell us at face value and repeat it as fact.

Yes modern society has some problems, some worse than they used to be, but I'd far rather have what we have now than what existed even 50 years ago.

As to underwear in photo's, so long as everyone involved is happy, what's the problem? Sexual repression has done far more harm in the past, mostly to women, than supposedly "loose" modern attitudes to the human body ever will.

In my opinion, which I demand you respect, obviously

Mark

 

[Southdowns]

Lol she also said does your over half know you look at naked girls? Because if it was her bf she would go mad!! That just made me laugh.

Ask her to find you a straight man who doesn't, including her boyfriend, if he's honest. And ask her why she'd want to deny those girls an income, and those men innocent and perfectly natural pleasure? I think it's sexist to try and stop men from being men!

 

[MJ Stebbings]

Lol she also said does your over half know you look at naked girls? Because if it was her bf she would go mad!! That just made me laugh.

So he isnt allowed to buy FRONT, FHM, Loaded etc? If so, it gives him more reason to lie to her. He is male, its natural instinct

Ask her to find you a straight man who doesn't, including her boyfriend, if he's honest. And ask her why she'd want to deny those girls an income, and those men innocent and perfectly natural pleasure? I think it's sexist to try and stop men from being men!

 

[tomah]

Ask her to find you a straight man who doesn't, including her boyfriend, if he's honest.!

What you say here is true, but it's no good thing.

This is what theologians have historically called, the depravity of man. As you can see, it's evidenced all around you in ways like you've just mentioned. We can't help ourselves, but that doesn't excuse us.

 

[MJ Stebbings]

We can't help ourselves, but that doesn't excuse us.

Women window shop for shoes, its the same thing

 

[Southdowns]

How is it good to stop people doing what comes naturally? Of course there are limits, which is where our intellect and natural sense of morals comes into play, but how does it do harm to allow men to look at beautiful women?

Women have been, and in some countries still are, obscenely repressed by the teaching that their bodies, appropriately displayed, are something to be ashamed of, as is sexual activity between loving, or at the very least respectful, individuals.

Theology has nothing to offer on the subject; before theologians can use god as a measure of what's right and wrong, they need to demonstrate that there is one, and that if there is, he/she/it has anything to say on the subject. Morality based on any ready guide, especially guides that are thousands of years old and have been reinterpreted hundreds of times to "fit" developing human understanding, is the worst kind of morality there is. Morality requires a pragmatic approach if the human race is to make any progress at all.

What theologians mean by the depravity of man is "mankind drifting away from the ready guide I like to live by". Long live depravity if that's the case.

Is this getting a bit heavy for a photography forum? Sorry if it is

 

[tomah]

Women window shop for shoes, its the same thing

I discovered a solution to that. Live in outback Australia!

However, now we're back in the UK, fashion is resurrected to priority status!

Actually, I can't complain. My wife is very sensible.

 

[Southdowns]

I discovered a solution to that. Live in outback Australia!

I know plenty of women who'd have them flown in!!!!

 

[tomah]

How is it good to stop people doing what comes naturally? Of course there are limits, which is where our intellect and natural sense of morals comes into play, but how does it do harm to allow men to look at beautiful women?

You've a problem right here. What is the measure of intellect and morals? Who is to say? Should it be ruled by democratic opinion? If that's the case, many Germans didn't seem to have a problem killing certain classes of people at one point.

Women have been, and in some countries still are, obscenely repressed by the teaching that their bodies, appropriately displayed, are something to be ashamed of, as is sexual activity between loving, or at the very least respectful, individuals.

I haven't lived in any of these countries, so I can't comment on whether the general populace of any nation thinks that the female body is to be ashamed of in any way. I hazard a guess that they just think it's improper/offensive/sinful to display the body to everyone. I imagine they believe the naked body of both sexes is, outside matters of necessity (like surgery), is sacred, and is to be kept as private enjoyment for each spouse, not something that should be shared nationally on page 3 of a tabloid.

Theology has nothing to offer on the subject; before theologians can use god as a measure of what's right and wrong, they need to demonstrate that there is one, and that if there is, he/she/it has anything to say on the subject. Morality based on any ready guide, especially guides that are thousands of years old and have been reinterpreted hundreds of times to "fit" developing human understanding, is the worst kind of morality there is. Morality requires a pragmatic approach if the human race is to make any progress at all.

What theologians mean by the depravity of man is "mankind drifting away from the ready guide I like to live by". Long live depravity if that's the case.

I've already addressed your approach to 'morality'. It's flawed. You presuppose man is capable of making a right judgement. That's a presupposition that can't be proven true, but by history is proven incorrect.

And I don't know where you got that definition of depravity. I've never read any such thing. Depravity is not man drifting away from a moral guide. Rather, it's mans inherent corrupted nature or being, so that every part of him is corrupted; his emotions, intellect, and will. The extent of its manifestations differs from person to person, but all are depraved.

Is this getting a bit heavy for a photography forum? Sorry if it is

Probably.

 

[onona]

I've already addressed your approach to 'morality'. It's flawed. You presuppose man is capable of making a right judgement. That's a presupposition that can't be proven true, but by history is proven incorrect.

Errmm... no. The notion of a "right judgement" is entirely a man-made concept; expecting a natural ability to do it is like expecting a peach to behave like a telephone. Even morality is a man-made concept.

That said, there is plenty of scientific research that demonstrates that humans are inately altruistic. Altruism is even observed in many animal species as well - because animals and humans instinctively know that being kind to one another is, in fact, beneficial for the species.

Rather, it's mans inherent corrupted nature or being

This is religious garbage.

 

[EYE_ON_ME]

Wow this is getting rather deep........

 

[skiking]

Where do you get that from? That's not what the OP said or implied at all; they were just having a chat about what is and isn't acceptable.

Read it again...I'm at a loss how I got there.....I'll get my coat