I agree, you are a commercial photographer, something that doesnt interest me at all, needless to say the feedback from potential clients. Using letters of any sort with your diplomas etc is embarrassing too so thus FRPS or ARPS. It rather proves you are not good enough so titles need to help you. As mentioned creating meaningful to you project and getting external feedback ,but valuable feedback by those who understand visual language is something very precious and difficult to get. It all comes down to what sort of photography you are interested in and who you are. Wish RPS was clearer about what sort of educational guidance they can offer here.
Well, I think that implying that achieving an ARPS and / or an FRPS and showing that you have done so is proof that you are not good enough, is a rather skewed interpretation. I don't do that but this is not a judgment on my part on others who do; it has worked very well for some people that I know; I chose not to do that. I was going to suggest that I discuss this with you; as you seem to have already made a judgment I won't. Have a good and pleasant day.
not my intention, I meant if somebody has done it for mainly getting it.The first reason should always be development as like for me if you get rewarded with 'letters' great too, but I wouldn't necessarily want to make it the most important message about myself. Have a good day too
Well, that word "should" does not rest well me; it implies that the only valid reason for doing anything is the one that works for you. And the only reason it would appear to be the most important message is if that you made it that way. I would suggest that following this route is not for you. You might find your money better spent on finding a like minded photographer who is willing to collaborate with you or someone you can pay to review your work without any kind of framework in place. Finding like minded photographers is tricky and often an invitation to join the group is the way in.
I've seen and read your RPS distinction story. I liked it, technically speaking, but when I see works of somebody it gives me also information about the person.We indeed read and understand things differently. Thank you for offering advice and enjoy walking your path in photography.
Wow... you have a way with words and perhaps you intend it and perhaps you do not . Regardless of your opinion of the work I did for my submissions, you have no idea what I do now. As a new member of this forum, it is an interesting way to introduce yourself.
It's a very long time since I stopped selling pictures.
Rather, it depends on you, which letters and who you are talking to. Remember that one of the Golden Rules is "every decision depends on the circumstances"
I'm not at all sure what that sentence means. My least bad guess is that you are saying: "pick who you ask".
Agreed.
Since they closed the Bath site, with its rather pleasant basement cafe, the RPS has been of no interest to me.
totally agree, it changes while the circumstances change, ideal situation is when you can choose circumstances and context.
I valued academic experience (not all) but at least years ago you had a guarantee that academic staff are verified experts in their field, carefully chosen so you could trust you were talking to somebody who went through thorough thinking process himself/herself and you will not be misguided. There is nothing more frustrating like being 'judged' by incompetent self-labeled judge (not referring to anything photographic here), even worse if you can't spot it yourself. The art world is very inclusive now inviting too many 'experts' in my opinion.
but still respected by some universities I think like Falmouth University ( I am not aware of their rank either) or Open University
Academics love distinctions and qualifications... It is what they do.
The RPS could not be described as the custodian of UK amateur club values etc. This role is taken by the PAGB though the RPS still has some influence. As I stated in an earlier post FIAP and PSA also have a significant international influence on UK club photography. However, if I was looking to employ a professional photographer, I would look to them having professional qualifications not amateur distinctions.
Same, but I pay attention to the potential quality of my experience.You usually do your own stuff but as you mentioned yourself opening doors happen when you are in the right place.
out of curiosity how was IOP experience?
Almost all UK clubs are affiliated to the PAGB via their area Federations. While there was a preference for RPS distinctions in the 1980/90's that has faded. My club (one of the largest in the UK) run an annual International Salon. We have several patrons PAGB, FIAP, PSA and GPU but originally we also had RPS but they no longer sponsor International Salons. Photographers enter these salons to gain acceptances which can earn them distinctions with the various patrons (FIAP, PSA & GPU). PAGB is very popular with UK photographers because once you achieve a distinction, you keep it for life and do not have to pay any membership fee as with the RPS. For both the RPS and PAGB pictures are assessed by a group of judges but their is a significant difference in that the RPS judge a panel of images whereas, for the PAGB, each image is assessed individually and the judges are not aware of whose images they are. When I first attended a PAGB adjudication I was entering the bottom level CPAGB but sat thought the MPAGB level out of interest. 20 applied for the MPAGB (all of them had an FRPS) but only one achieved the MPAGB and his work stood out from the rest. It seems well established that MPAGB is higher status than FRPS in that it is harder to achieve. I do not wish to disrespect the RPS whom I admire and did consider joining at one time particularly when they were planning to move to my town but this never happened so I did not join. I had in mind to benefit from their various outings, advice and training rather than distinctions.
It is true that we struggle to find enough volunteers to do the work but this seems to be that people under say 55 are not keen to take on such responsibilities and give excuses such as "I go to work", "I have children" but so did the rest of us when we volunteered. Why do camera clubs not fit in with the modern digital world? We actually take advantage by using all the technology and unlike many local organisations we seem to be maintaining our membership level. I am sure if my current club had not adapted to technical and social changes, there would have been problems.
I'll stick my neck out here and suggest that last phrase would be more accurate if it read "only in a camera club".
I am sure there is much truth in what you say but so what! When you consider the many photographic distinctions including FIAP, PSA, GPU and others, the number of photographers involved are large because this is a world wide system. I have an EFIAP and considered applying for EFIAP/b (bronze) but have not bothered because of the administration involved though I do now meet the photographic requirements because I have continued to enter a few international salons. I think it would be true to say that many of my club members would not know the difference between EFIAP and EFIAP/b let alone members of the public but why would I expect them to? It is important to understand that the main reason most bother to obtain these distinctions is to challenge themselves. The distinctions drive many on to keep entering many salons (and thus pay entry fees) from which the many clubs worldwide may benefit.
I wonder what "large" means in this context?
Hi @PHOTONA,
yes, after all you can learn everything yourself but feedback is very valuable as without it you do not really progress or at this speed.
I have to disagree that MPAGB is higher status. For myself it is a total nonsense as mentioned somewhere already single picture people are almost always amateurs. You do not work like this if you are an experiences photographer artist etc. That's a domain of an amateur who doesn't know what is body of work. Judges within PAGB are also amateurs, usuallly have only knowledge from their judging school which they apply very schematically.
I do not care about the letters as well, yes working on project with a deadline (chosen by yourself) is a good motivator and getting feedback invaluable , 'passing' proves my ideas were clear to others. thanks
I agree.i do not understand how any organization can award permanent distinctions based on single images. Any one can get the odd wonderful shot in ideal conditions, if only by chance. To judge the ability of a photographer what you are looking for is repeatability of excellent work. Especially in the case of professionals, where the expectation and. Guarantee of high quantity work must be a given.
Just something on this original question, most judges I’d say learn from other judges and through judging seminars. So, no, I don’t think they have an appreciation for art/photographic history or have a refined visual vocabulary. They’re basically learning to judge photos and that’s it, but through received wisdom. Camera club judges could be replaced with AI soon..
Did that not teach you how to evaluate and develop your own work?
Quite probably and, equally probably, they'll perpetuate the same tired old tropes.
