RPS distinctions - my journey - first stop - the 'LRPS' - GOT IT :)

[DG Phototraining]

First scan through the mac's HD for some potential images last night came up with 39 (you need 10), I have a much fuller HD to look through too !!!

Hoping to find a few 'finals' soon and then go shoot for the 'gaps'

Dave

 

[DG Phototraining]

Interesting day today

Loxley has sent over some useful info re how best to profile for their Lustre paper (not as solid for blacks but my preferred option over Gloss), and offered a series of free test prints

The mounting has been interesting too - I went back to a company I've dealt with years ago for a quote, and then out walking this aft I came across a framers on an ind. est. right here in sunny Barnsley

Cotswold Mounts is sending over samples looking at about £3.50 per mount with backboard; whereas the local firm want £6 - so unless Cotswold's are rubbish you can guess whose likely to get that business

Dave

 

[gramps]

Popped into RPS in Bath today to renew my membership - not the most welcoming reception I have to say for a first time visiting member

 

[Lindsay D]

Interesting day today

Loxley has sent over some useful info re how best to profile for their Lustre paper (not as solid for blacks but my preferred option over Gloss), and offered a series of free test prints

The mounting has been interesting too - I went back to a company I've dealt with years ago for a quote, and then out walking this aft I came across a framers on an ind. est. right here in sunny Barnsley

Cotswold Mounts is sending over samples looking at about £3.50 per mount with backboard; whereas the local firm want £6 - so unless Cotswold's are rubbish you can guess whose likely to get that business

Dave

Using Loxley's profile for their lustre paper doesn't in my experience yield any difference over submitting the file as sRGB, but it may be worth a try if they will do you a sample.

I have used Cotswold Mounts and they are very good.

My memory tells me you are already a LSWPP so have you thought about going for your 'A' as well as your RPS?

 

[Spooky]

I am still in the process of going for my L with the RPS. The last advisory day I had booked into didn't happen for me because of the snow.

Anyhow, for what it is worth, here is a link to my RPS adventures thread.

Wishing you all the best with yours.

Spooks

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=446277

and a link to the gallery containing the final 20 images I took to the advisory day - some of these have comments attached from the day itself - my notes from what the advisors said about each image.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meltingpotpictures/sets/72157631988596771/

 

[gramps]

and a link to the gallery containing the final 20 images I took to the advisory day - some of these have comments attached from the day itself - my notes from what the advisors said about each image.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meltingpotpictures/sets/72157631988596771/

Tough!

 

[DG Phototraining]

Using Loxley's profile for their lustre paper doesn't in my experience yield any difference over submitting the file as sRGB, but it may be worth a try if they will do you a sample.

I have used Cotswold Mounts and they are very good.

My memory tells me you are already a LSWPP so have you thought about going for your 'A' as well as your RPS?

Yep - LSWPP and QGWP - but I'm doing this on 'hobby' work, hence no 'Pro' images

I am still in the process of going for my L with the RPS. The last advisory day I had booked into didn't happen for me because of the snow.

Anyhow, for what it is worth, here is a link to my RPS adventures thread.

Wishing you all the best with yours.

Spooks

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=446277

and a link to the gallery containing the final 20 images I took to the advisory day - some of these have comments attached from the day itself - my notes from what the advisors said about each image.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meltingpotpictures/sets/72157631988596771/

Very brave of you to post the images and comments Some of which I agree with, some are plain [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] :shake:

Having reviewed EVERY A & F panel I can find on their site too - inc. some just in the private forum - I have to say that for the L I'm surprised at so many negative comments, while some of the Fs I've seen wouldn't warrant me bothering to waste spit on

Dave

 

[EOS_JD]

I am still in the process of going for my L with the RPS. The last advisory day I had booked into didn't happen for me because of the snow.

Anyhow, for what it is worth, here is a link to my RPS adventures thread.

Wishing you all the best with yours.

Spooks

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=446277

and a link to the gallery containing the final 20 images I took to the advisory day - some of these have comments attached from the day itself - my notes from what the advisors said about each image.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/meltingpotpictures/sets/72157631988596771/

Some really crazy comments in there! Some really nice images - K thought the comment "birds up against walls' not being any good" was interesting lol

Some comments I kind of agreed with and others were just barmy lol

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Some really crazy comments in there! Some really nice images - K thought the comment "birds up against walls' not being any good" was interesting lol

Some comments I kind of agreed with and others were just barmy lol

The leaves not needed quote puzzled me

 

[EOS_JD]

And me!

 

[specialman]

Going to re-read this thread later, as I'm currently toying with doing my LRPS.

 

[DG Phototraining]

Going to re-read this thread later, as I'm currently toying with doing my LRPS.

I'm aiming for an Assessment Day in May presently, so trying to find 15 or so images to have ready - I've found close to 40 'possibles'- and now going to work out if there's a panel in there too - if not, see where any gaps are and go shoot something for it

Although the principle of the L seems to be camera skill and no repetition, I've come across some with great images who have failed, and a couple with what looks like obvious repetition to me (all portraits) who passed - some where the fail included comments on blown areas and others who passed with huge obvious blown areas

Its looking bloody weird to pass the L - bizarrely, the A (which seems devoid of such practical issues as blown/blocked up) actually looks easier !!!

Dave

 

[Lindsay D]

I agree the L is a confusing one, it's very hard to know what to put in your panel and you can get very mixed feedback. At A level you know what to put in your panel but the execution has to be near flawless. Of all of them my As (two in different subjects) were hard work. My F felt a bit easier for some reason, probably because there is more weight given to narrative and personal style.

 

[-Paul-]

Lots of interesting comment guys. But I think 'Yv' sums it up when she talks about the 'BIPP' member and the 'FRPS' chap. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder! Good luck in your 'L' Dave.

 

[On the Huh]

DG...WHY!! You seem very successful in your photography as a business, and you enjoy it as a hobby too. Why pay some **** so much a year for some lousy letters after your name. POINTLESS!

 

[Chipper]

Well I enjoyed working towards my 'L' - learnt a great deal and enjoyed the buzz [after the nerve wracking event] of meeting the criteria. So I don't agree that it is pointless and I am puzzled that Zulfi seems to angry about the whole thing! Pondering what to do for the 'A' now.

 

[DG Phototraining]

DG...WHY!! You seem very successful in your photography as a business, and you enjoy it as a hobby too. Why pay some **** so much a year for some lousy letters after your name. POINTLESS!

Actually - there is a bit of a business reason behind it as a future project

And as a hobby, well its a bit of an indulgence too

Dave

 

[viewfromthenorth]

DG...WHY!! You seem very successful in your photography as a business, and you enjoy it as a hobby too. Why pay some **** so much a year for some lousy letters after your name. POINTLESS!

Why do you feel so strongly, strongly enough to resort to profanity, that it is pointless? You're welcome to your opinion, but I'm curious why you think it's pointless. Have you had a bad experience with the RPS, or are you of the school of thought that letters after your name is a form of inverted snobbery, or something else? Just curious.

 

[tiler65]

Well I enjoyed working towards my 'L' - learnt a great deal and enjoyed the buzz [after the nerve wracking event] of meeting the criteria. So I don't agree that it is pointless and I am puzzled that Zulfi seems to angry about the whole thing! Pondering what to do for the 'A' now.

Pointless in the fact that one man's view of a panel may not meet with approval of another judge - it is far too subjective to be definitive!

 

[Lindsay D]

Tom, this is why there are several judges on the panel, and a scoring system to reduce the impact of subjectivity. Normally if a particular judge's score is wildly different to everyone else's there is a debate for the purpose of bringing opinions more in line. And they are not always men, I think around 5 female Fellows exist and some of those do some judging!

Zulfi, you're entitled to your opinion, but if you were correct then nobody would work for years on end towards a distinction. Whilst it's not necessary in terms of gaining most of your day to day clients, distinctions can have a very valuable role in other areas. Aside from the fact that the journey pushes you to raise your game immeasurably, which will give you confidence and your clients better images, distinctions are also a good way of setting yourself apart from the untrained newcomers who have flooded the market in recent years - I'm specifically referring to those who pick up a fancy camera and set themselves up 'in business'. This is most relevant in the wedding industry.

 

[tiler65]

Tom, this is why there are several judges on the panel, and a scoring system to reduce the impact of subjectivity. Normally if a particular judge's score is wildly different to everyone else's there is a debate for the purpose of bringing opinions more in line. And they are not always men, I think around 5 female Fellows exist and some of those do some judging!

I have no idea where the female/male aspect comes into a decision about trying to obtain a 'certificate' comes from.

The bold part is what I have most issues with - who decides who's opinion line needs to be 'brought in'? Surely the debate is entirely subjective and the dominant argument will win so therefore it is not strictly an 'average' of views taken to come up with the common denominator.

Who is to say which 'version' of an 'L' or an 'A' is best etc.

I don't begrudge any one taking this step for their own personal benefit as if that is what they want to do then so be it but there are far too many 'versions' for them to have credibility outside of the photographic fraternity.

Sorry for moving the thread slightly off Dave's road and may I say, good luck.

 

[specialman]

I'm aiming for an Assessment Day in May presently, so trying to find 15 or so images to have ready - I've found close to 40 'possibles'- and now going to work out if there's a panel in there too - if not, see where any gaps are and go shoot something for it

Although the principle of the L seems to be camera skill and no repetition, I've come across some with great images who have failed, and a couple with what looks like obvious repetition to me (all portraits) who passed - some where the fail included comments on blown areas and others who passed with huge obvious blown areas

Its looking bloody weird to pass the L - bizarrely, the A (which seems devoid of such practical issues as blown/blocked up) actually looks easier !!!

Dave

Just refreshed myself with the distinctions and I'm thinking the ARPS might be a bit more up my street, although I don't know if it's just wise to do the 'L' first and work through. I did have the option to take on an L through exemption (I did a HND/BA Hons) but aside from my qualifications being more than 10 years old, I feel that those qualifications bear no resemblance to who I am as a photographer these days.

 

[DG Phototraining]

I have no idea where the female/male aspect comes into a decision about trying to obtain a 'certificate' comes from.

The bold part is what I have most issues with - who decides who's opinion line needs to be 'brought in'? Surely the debate is entirely subjective and the dominant argument will win so therefore it is not strictly an 'average' of views taken to come up with the common denominator.

Who is to say which 'version' of an 'L' or an 'A' is best etc.

I don't begrudge any one taking this step for their own personal benefit as if that is what they want to do then so be it but there are far too many 'versions' for them to have credibility outside of the photographic fraternity.

Sorry for moving the thread slightly off Dave's road and may I say, good luck.

Nothing wrong with having a healthy debate in relation to the subject bud

Just refreshed myself with the distinctions and I'm thinking the ARPS might be a bit more up my street, although I don't know if it's just wise to do the 'L' first and work through. I did have the option to take on an L through exemption (I did a HND/BA Hons) but aside from my qualifications being more than 10 years old, I feel that those qualifications bear no resemblance to who I am as a photographer these days.

I can totally see that - I'm wanting to do the L first to better help me understand the process and for me to then pass this on to others too, it's only a few months longer in the process, but the A is defo my aim for next year

Dave

 

[watlvry]

Tough!

May I ask why you value a bunch of old men's criticism of your vision so much that you pay them to do so? The RPS is an outdated elitist institution only fit for mindless conformists, and those commercial members are there only to find another outlet for their work. You like your photos, this forum likes your photos, so why try and plug into the RPS's conformist ideas of lighting, form, texture, frame, composition? So you take ten (10?) pretty pictures that they approve, and for 100 Guineas you may add LRPS to your name, thus establishing where you sit in photographic terms. That makes you better than the rest in some way, more elitist, so long as you keep paying up every year?

 

[viewfromthenorth]

May I ask why you value a bunch of old men's criticism of your vision so much that you pay them to do so? The RPS is an outdated elitist institution only fit for mindless conformists, and those commercial members are there only to find another outlet for their work. You like your photos, this forum likes your photos, so why try and plug into the RPS's conformist ideas of lighting, form, texture, frame, composition? So you take ten (10?) pretty pictures that they approve, and for 100 Guineas you may add LRPS to your name, thus establishing where you sit in photographic terms. That makes you better than the rest in some way, more elitist, so long as you keep paying up every year?

LOL is all I can say. No point replying with a carefully reasoned argument with someone who clearly has a bee in their bonnet about the RPS. I take it you're not a member?

 

[Ed Sutton]

...for 100 Guineas you may add LRPS to your name, thus establishing where you sit in photographic terms. That makes you better than the rest in some way, more elitist, so long as you keep paying up every year?

I can understand why the process appeals to people as a personal challenge but this is the bit I don't understand. Study for an academic or vocational qualification and it's yours forever. Get one of these things from and you have to keep forking out to use the damned thing. :shrug: Or can you call yourself 'Joe Bloggs, LRPS (lapsed)'.

Looks like a good way for the RPS to keep it's coffers filled and its membership up to me.

 

[tiler65]

LOL is all I can say. No point replying with a carefully reasoned argument with someone who clearly has a bee in their bonnet about the RPS. I take it you're not a member?

This is because you are a member your view is biased.

I hate to crit other's work when they are not specifically asking but I looked at your ARPS panel and I was shocked at #5 - colour popping!!! If that is ARPS standard then I am glad I am not in!

 

[viewfromthenorth]

Most if not all institutions offering distinctions (as opposed to qualifications) work that way, as far as I know. I'm a Chartered Engineer but I can only maintain that status for as long as I pay my subs to the IET and Enginering Council.

End of the day, if you don't like the idea of it, don't do it. Not having a distinction doesn't mean you're a worse photographer than someone who does.

 

[viewfromthenorth]

This is because you are a member your view is biased.

I hate to crit other's work when they are not specifically asking but I looked at your ARPS panel and I was shocked at #5 - colour popping!!! If that is ARPS standard then I am glad I am not in!

Just because you don't like the technique, doesn't mean it's not valid. And the technique has nothing to do with the standard of work required for the distinction.

 

[Lindsay D]

I have no idea where the female/male aspect comes into a decision about trying to obtain a 'certificate' comes from.

The bold part is what I have most issues with - who decides who's opinion line needs to be 'brought in'? Surely the debate is entirely subjective and the dominant argument will win so therefore it is not strictly an 'average' of views taken to come up with the common denominator.

Who is to say which 'version' of an 'L' or an 'A' is best etc.

I don't begrudge any one taking this step for their own personal benefit as if that is what they want to do then so be it but there are far too many 'versions' for them to have credibility outside of the photographic fraternity.

Sorry for moving the thread slightly off Dave's road and may I say, good luck.

Judges were previously referred to in the thread as men/man - I was simply pointing out that there are some female judges, though not many.

'Brought in line' refers to a judge failing to stick to the judging criteria for which scores are produced (ie impact, lighting, composition, narrative, etc etc) - in other words a judge who might be allowing their personal preferences to come to bear. If that happens the Chair will remind the judges that they must adhere to the scoring structure.

Not sure what you mean by 'versions'. The system is very similar between the four recognized awarding bodies (BIPP, The Societies, MPA, RPS) and very often the same judges sit on each panel. The scoring system is broadly standardized as well but there are some differences. For example the RPS allows, at Licentiate level, just 10 images in a panel - everywhere else it's 20.

I hope that clarifies things. There are a lot of misunderstandings about qualifications - particularly the absurd view amongst some commentators that you simply write out a cheque and obtain your letters (though you do have to keep up your membership to retain them - however the achievement cannot be taken away from you). Not many seem to realise how challenging it can be, and each distinction is a real milestone. If that's the path any individual chooses to go down then it's because they feel it will benefit them - my distinctions have been of tremendous benefit to me, in all sorts of ways. If it's not for you that's fine.

 

[DG Phototraining]

May I ask why you value a bunch of old men's criticism of your vision so much that you pay them to do so? The RPS is an outdated elitist institution only fit for mindless conformists, and those commercial members are there only to find another outlet for their work. You like your photos, this forum likes your photos, so why try and plug into the RPS's conformist ideas of lighting, form, texture, frame, composition? So you take ten (10?) pretty pictures that they approve, and for 100 Guineas you may add LRPS to your name, thus establishing where you sit in photographic terms. That makes you better than the rest in some way, more elitist, so long as you keep paying up every year?

What a way to make an impression as one's 5th post on the forum

Did make me though, so thanks for that

Dave

 

[EOS_JD]

I can understand why the process appeals to people as a personal challenge but this is the bit I don't understand. Study for an academic or vocational qualification and it's yours forever. Get one of these things from and you have to keep forking out to use the damned thing. :shrug: Or can you call yourself 'Joe Bloggs, LRPS (lapsed)'.

Looks like a good way for the RPS to keep it's coffers filled and its membership up to me.

Not the case as noted above. To maintain MRICS (Chartered surveyor) a member has to fork out hundreds of pounds and has to attend a number of hours of CPD each year too. They pay more to be ARICS or FRIS (as a surveyor I use those as an example). If a member stops paying, the lose the status.

There's nothing to stop you getting a qualification in Photography but to be honest they are mostly pretty poor quality. L, A or F is NOT a qualification as such - it's a status and guide to the level of photography you are producing and actually means nothing to most clients.

You could try calling yourseld LRPS but I'd bet the oraganisation wouldn't be long in finding out lol Same as if one calls himself ARICS etc

 

[tiler65]

Judges were previously referred to in the thread as men/man - I was simply pointing out that there are some female judges, though not many.

'Brought in line' refers to a judge failing to stick to the judging criteria for which scores are produced (ie impact, lighting, composition, narrative, etc etc) - in other words a judge who might be allowing their personal preferences to come to bear. If that happens the Chair will remind the judges that they must adhere to the scoring structure.

Not sure what you mean by 'versions'. The system is very similar between the four recognized awarding bodies (BIPP, The Societies, MPA, RPS) and very often the same judges sit on each panel. The scoring system is broadly standardized as well but there are some differences. For example the RPS allows, at Licentiate level, just 10 images in a panel - everywhere else it's 20.

I hope that clarifies things. There are a lot of misunderstandings about qualifications - particularly the absurd view amongst some commentators that you simply write out a cheque and obtain your letters (though you do have to keep up your membership to retain them - however the achievement cannot be taken away from you). Not many seem to realise how challenging it can be, and each distinction is a real milestone. If that's the path any individual chooses to go down then it's because they feel it will benefit them - my distinctions have been of tremendous benefit to me, in all sorts of ways. If it's not for you that's fine.

So by sticking to a criteria, no innovations will ever make the grade!

I can judge a photo as well as the next man (man being anyone - such phrases as 'known to man' etc.)

Why would I need to be a fellow (or whatever) to be judge? Basically what you are saying is that anyone who is not a fellow, is not intelligent enough to judge.

I wonder why these 'distinctions' get such bad press?

 

[viewfromthenorth]

So by sticking to a criteria, no innovations will ever make the grade!

I can judge a photo as well as the next man (man being anyone - such phrases as 'known to man' etc.)

Why would I need to be a fellow (or whatever) to be judge? Basically what you are saying is that anyone who is not a fellow, is not intelligent enough to judge.

I wonder why these 'distinctions' get such bad press?

Innovations such as what? While my use of selective colour may not be to yours or everyone elses taste (they're actually the only three I've ever done), it's a relatively little used technique.

As for distinctions getting a bad press, this is the first time I've read such strong objections to them. And TBH, it's from the minority of people in this thread, and they clearly either have an axe to grind, or very little understanding of the institution and the distinction process.

It has been interesting to read these views though, I just don't agree with any of them, but as you pointed out, I am a member of the RPS. However, when I first joined a camera club several years back, I was deeply cynical of the distinctions, but once I understood them more, I decided to get involved to see what I could get out of it, and how far I could get. And I've no regrets in doing so.

 

[Pookeyhead]

May I ask why you value a bunch of old men's criticism of your vision so much that you pay them to do so?

Only 5 posts, and ALL of them contentious. Not even bothered to introduce yourself or anything... You do know what the word "Troll" means in the context of internet communication I take it?


He's doing it because he wants to.

In principle, I agree with you, but I'd never think to actually question Dave about it. Why would I? Does it matter to you? He clearly wants to, and if you bothered to actually read the thread, you'll understand it's the journey of development he is enjoying.

Whether you agree with the RPS mindset or not is immaterial.

 

[DG Phototraining]

Only 5 posts, and ALL of them contentious. Not even bothered to introduce yourself or anything... You do know what the word "Troll" means in the context of internet communication I take it?


He's doing it because he wants to.

In principle, I agree with you, but I'd never think to actually question Dave about it. Why would I? Does it matter to you? He clearly wants to, and if you bothered to actually read the thread, you'll understand it's the journey of development he is enjoying.

Whether you agree with the RPS mindset or not is immaterial.

Well said

Christ - its not like I'm doing anything disgusting or sick, like becoming a Canon user !!!



Dave

 

[Ed Sutton]

Not the case as noted above. To maintain MRICS (Chartered surveyor) a member has to fork out hundreds of pounds and has to attend a number of hours of CPD each year too. They pay more to be ARICS or FRIS (as a surveyor I use those as an example). If a member stops paying, the lose the status.

There's nothing to stop you getting a qualification in Photography but to be honest they are mostly pretty poor quality. L, A or F is NOT a qualification as such - it's a status and guide to the level of photography you are producing and actually means nothing to most clients.

You could try calling yourseld LRPS but I'd bet the oraganisation wouldn't be long in finding out lol Same as if one calls himself ARICS etc

Thanks for the clarification. It still all sounds like a con trick to me. Although I can see how the surveyor thing is designed to keep the cowboys out of the game and ensure the Chartered Surveyors can charge high prices.

 

[Yv]

So by sticking to a criteria, no innovations will ever make the grade!

I can judge a photo as well as the next man (man being anyone - such phrases as 'known to man' etc.)

Why would I need to be a fellow (or whatever) to be judge? Basically what you are saying is that anyone who is not a fellow, is not intelligent enough to judge.

I wonder why these 'distinctions' get such bad press?

Tom, that is pretty lame, what would like them to do, grab a panel of judges from people walking past in the street and see what they think? Bit like Flickr.... that'll work wonders for improving photography won't it....

I don't think Lindsay, or anyone else, has even hinted that a non-fellow is 'not intelligent enough', that is a ridiculous conclusions to draw. It is fairly standard practice in any industry that when it comes to assessements, you are judged by those with a track record in the same industry, and for each awarding body it makes sense that those people are chosen from within the ranks with an auditable track record. As already said, if its not for you, thats fine, Distinctions aren't for everyone and many make their way in photography without them, but if the journey is something you want to do, why not.

 

[Lindsay D]

So by sticking to a criteria, no innovations will ever make the grade!

I can judge a photo as well as the next man (man being anyone - such phrases as 'known to man' etc.)

Why would I need to be a fellow (or whatever) to be judge? Basically what you are saying is that anyone who is not a fellow, is not intelligent enough to judge.

I wonder why these 'distinctions' get such bad press?

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying Tom, as well as twisting things. Innovations are welcomed by most of the institutions, particularly at F level.

To be a judge it's expected that you're well qualified and have an in depth first hand understanding of the distinction process. That is normal, in pretty much any institution.

Where on earth did I say that 'anyone who is not a fellow is not intelligent enough to judge'. Please don't twist my words, or invent them.

Distinctions get a bad press from those who know they would not make the grade if it were a requirement, or else from those who have little understanding of what they involve, or mean. I full respect anyone who chooses a totally different path, but a modicum of respect in return would help the conversation to remain balanced. I've done my best to politely answer your questions but I feel you've got an axe to grind.

 

[Lindsay D]

Yv beat me to it!