Ronnie Biggs Dies aged 84

having grown up in the east end of london in the 50's and 60's the train robbers were our local heroes ,it was a TOTALLY different world then ,the rules and morals were still being re-drawn after the war ,people who haven't lived through those times have no right to criticise the ones that did ,all they wanted was a way to a better lifestyle that was starting to exist .
and who at the end of the day are the real criminals ,i as a teenager worked at george munros in covent garden market next door to the royal opera house and a couple of hundred yards away from bow street police station and magistrates court .
under one of the other warehouses in covent garden was a large basement ,in this basement nearly everything that that was stolen,shoplifted or whatever in london could be found for sale ,the best and most frequent customers were (and i have seen this with my own eyes) policemen in uniform of all ranks ,and solicitors ,barristers and even judges some on lunch break in all there apparel .and this happened on a daily basis .great train robbers villains don't make me laugh .

....Being of the same generation as yourself and also knowing a few so called villains in my time, I know from life experience exactly what you are saying, Jeff. As many others here don't seem to understand, life is not so simple and black and white. One of my very best and loyal friends had to leave the country in a hurry once upon a time and my father taught me never to judge people - In WW2 his life had once been saved by a convicted murderer.

The TV prog last night put it all across quite well.
 
A few myths here.
The train driver died, in all probability as a result of injuries received during the robbery. He died more than a year and a day after the incident, therefore no prosecution for murder could be considered. All involved were, and would be now considered to be involved in joint enterprise and equally liable. As they would be for any other offence where there was a clear common purpose.

In terms of sentence, it was not out of proportion for the time, so there is no comparison to be made, in any case you cannot compare sentences for different offences using a subjective and personal scale of 'seriousness', it simply does not work.

But staying with the length of sentence, it's more a case of that one not being too harsh, more those for theft of an equivalent amount now being too lenient. There's very little deterrent effect in probation and community whatever orders.

The real point here is Biggs turned himself into a folk hero as a way of making a living while in Brazil, he was in fact a nasty peace of work, just like all the others involved. Good radiance!

As regards to MRAF Harris, what a load of tripe! The second world war was total war, not an Iraq or Afghanistan. All populations of both sides were involved in support and production and therefore legitimate as targets. In exactly the same way as they would be if the same thing happened now. To use him as a comparison isn't in the least bit valid.

Same with Madela. He was a terrorist, like it or not, and I accept that he did a great deal after his release to unite SA. However, terrorism has never achieved anything apart from prolong everyone's suffering and entrench positions. Did his acts lead to other peoples deaths. I understand they did yes. But again, it's an invalid comparison, what he did only has one mitigation, and that was it wasn't for his personal gain and profit. Biggs and co's actions was.

:agree:
 
the sentence they were meted out was NOT down to the judges or judiciary it was soley down to the ruling government of the time who took a dislike to the fact that they had been turned over by some cockney wide boys ,the belief at the time is that the train driver died from his injuries a year later (after most suspects were in custody) and very conveniently to .do not say that what i,m implying does not happen as it still does ,does the name princess di ring a bell here .
 
the sentence they were meted out was NOT down to the judges or judiciary it was soley down to the ruling government of the time who took a dislike to the fact that they had been turned over by some cockney wide boys ,the belief at the time is that the train driver died from his injuries a year later (after most suspects were in custody) and very conveniently to .do not say that what i,m implying does not happen as it still does ,does the name princess di ring a bell here .

To clarify

The trakn driver, Jck Mills, died in February 1970 some six and a half years after the robbery. He died of chronic lymphatic leukemia and bronchial pneumonia.

So way beyond the year and a day that meant no charge of murder could be ldvelled.

Steve
 
Ronnie Biggs, was a very selfish man, out to make a profit from society any we he could, irrespective of the injuries he inflicted on others.
He was a selfish b*****d.
Long may he rot in Hell (if indeed there is a Hell).
 
Ronnie Biggs, was a very selfish man, out to make a profit from society any we he could, irrespective of the injuries he inflicted on others.
He was a selfish OI!.
Long may he rot in Hell (if indeed there is a Hell).

Its a viewpoint which sets out your feeling.

From that viewpoint would you say the same of shoplifters, those who fiddle expenses, seek to fail to pay their train fares, bankers who practice fraud for personal gain, nigèrian scammers with their temptation emails and and and

I think as I do as stated earlier, he was a thief and a rogue.

They exist everywhere and we face a constant battle against them.

I accept they exist and have systems to stop them. What I refuse to do is let them win. When Biggs took part in crime he knew the risks. That he escaped in 1965 gave him decades of stress and my way of dealing with his request to return would have been - No - stay where you are - you gave away your citizenship. So not revenge but a practicable answer to the whole issue. No bother to me in my daily life and no celebrity.
 
the sentence they were meted out was NOT down to the judges or judiciary it was soley down to the ruling government of the time who took a dislike to the fact that they had been turned over by some cockney wide boys

Takes the biccie for possibly the most ridiculous piece of fiction I've read this year.

I'll ask, knowing dammed well there wont be a reasoned and accurate reply, but here goes...Your evidence supporting that is what exactly?

Oh Yes, we've all heard of Di, and it is simply an example of why you shouldn't drink and drive.

Government's couldn't organize a pee up in a brewery, let alone keep it quiet. The idea that somehow they managed to arrange a serious road traffic accident, in another country ensuring that the intended victim died is only good for making people laugh. Oh no...There's a black estate car outside my door.....I am off to find a South American Embassy.
 
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A few myths here.
The train driver died, in all probability as a result of injuries received during the robbery.


I very much doubt that his leukaemia was caused by his injuries or that the other chap who died even later heart problems stemmed from the robbery. By no means soul RB be considered a hero but neither was he a killer.
 
He was part of a gang that seriously injured an innocent and that is not forgivable
I had a very poor upbringing and was homeless at age 16 for a little while but I didn't steal or rob anyone there's never an excuse for doing wrong
 
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