Romanian fruit pickers

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Steve Smith said:
If it wasn't for all of those immigrants coming over and taking the jobs we refuse to do, he would have got one the next day!
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As anyone mentioned their sleeping with our Wimmin as well ?
 
As anyone mentioned their sleeping with our Wimmin as well ?
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Seems fair, good old Nigel has one of theirs, half euro kids too who will no doubt be over here and up a fruit tree before you can say hypocrite.
 
ST4 said:
Quite, market forces but our country is in decline. We need to protect our own. A points based immigration system is the only way.
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We have a points based system! However we also have freedom of movement within the EU member states.

I've always found that the best way to ensure you get the job is be the best you can be. It is that simple. I'm very confident that any employer would choose the best person for the job that will deliver the expected results. Artificially reducing the capability of a workforce doesn't make any economical sense to the prosperity of a country. In my opinion the points you are making about immigration are asking the wrong question. The question is why is there a perceived preference for non uk citizen staff in certain sectors. Why is there a void that attracts foreign workers who spot an excellent opportunity to better themselves.

To me, making it worthwhile to work has quite a bit to do with it. The proposals from the conservatives as announced at the last conference actually will help making it worthwhile working.

There is nothing wrong with a bit of competition, everyone has got a choice to either moan about it, or just strive to be better at it!
 
big soft moose said:
I thought you were a banker ...
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I wasn't always...we have to start somewhere after a job loss (used to work in stockbrokers as a client admin), I chose to not be picky and just get something and start over. I've managed to move upwards from post to post without issue. Getting a job isn't hard. Supermarket, shop, fruit picker, postie, just apply and interview well.
 
big soft moose said:
True but the janitor probably can't afford a BMW
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Plenty for just £700-1000, even 7-series. They will be old, but that wasn't your point. I am sure they could afford a £5-6k one or finance one if they didn't drink / smoke and were very frugal with other expenditure.
 
ST4 said:
I wasn't always...we have to start somewhere after a job loss (used to work in stockbrokers as a client admin), I chose to not be picky and just get something and start over. I've managed to move upwards from post to post without issue. Getting a job isn't hard. Supermarket, shop, fruit picker, postie, just apply and interview well.
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Not always as easy as you think. After I was made redundant, I applied for anything and everything and never got a sniff. The feedback I got was the same every time, I was over experienced and would leave too soon as I'd get bored.
 
fabs said:
Not always as easy as you think. After I was made redundant, I applied for anything and everything and never got a sniff. The feedback I got was the same every time, I was over experienced and would leave too soon as I'd get bored.
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Surely then the trick would be to tailor your CV to the job being applied for, no?
 
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fabs said:
Not as easy as it sounds, lying on your CV can come back and bite you.
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Viv didn't suggest lying, it was sound advice to create an individual cv for each job. It is a selling exercise and you need to tell them why they should employ you. Thus you tailor it.
 
fabs said:
Not as easy as it sounds, lying on your CV can come back and bite you.
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Indeed....But tailoring's not necessarily lying.
You can omit certain things, and unless they are specifically raised, you're not even "lying by omission" :-)
 
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dejongj said:
Viv didn't suggest lying, it was sound advice to create an individual cv for each job. It is a selling exercise and you need to tell them why they should employ you. Thus you tailor it.
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viv1969 said:
Indeed....But tailoring's not necessarily lying.
You can omit certain things, and unless they are specifically raised, you're not even "lying by omission" :)
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But to tailor it in my case would have been lying. I'd have had to change my details to the point of saying that I did jobs I didn't actually do.
 
fabs said:
But to tailor it in my case would have been lying. I'd have had to change my details to the point of saying that I did jobs I didn't actually do.
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Oh, well I was posting in response you saying you'd been rejected due to over-qualification.
The tailoring I was thinking of involves removing, not adding to. A "dumbing down" to a certain extent.
 
fabs said:
But to tailor it in my case would have been lying. I'd have had to change my details to the point of saying that I did jobs I didn't actually do.
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That is not tailoring, that is making up stuff this lying. I'm a bit surprised you even consider that the same as tailoring your cv to match the job.
 
viv1969 said:
Oh, well I was posting in response you saying you'd been rejected due to over-qualification.
The tailoring I was thinking of involves removing, not adding to. A "dumbing down" to a certain extent.
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Over experienced, not over qualified. A lot of the jobs I was applying for were simple data entry roles, there was no way I could have tailored my CV to make them believe that this was the type of role I wanted to do and wouldn't get bored after a few weeks.

dejongj said:
That is not tailoring, that is making up stuff this lying. I'm a bit surprised you even consider that the same as tailoring your cv to match the job.
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You've lost me JP. I'm saying that I would have to lie on my CV in order to be considered for the roles for which I was applying. Tailoring wouldn't have cut it.
 
Exactly :) so you couldn't demonstrate your relevance to the role other than lying. Perhaps you just weren't suitable :thumbs:
 
fabs said:
Over experienced, not over qualified. A lot of the jobs I was applying for were simple data entry roles, there was no way I could have tailored my CV to make them believe that this was the type of role I wanted to do and wouldn't get bored after a few weeks.



You've lost me JP. I'm saying that I would have to lie on my CV in order to be considered for the roles for which I was applying. Tailoring wouldn't have cut it.
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Talking down roles and responsiblities isnt the same as talking them up - the latter is deception, the former modesty

Also perhaps you were applying for rioles that were too junior ?
 
It doesn't really matter how easy or difficult it is to get a job. If there are not enough jobs to go around, there are always going to be a finite number of people out of work.

On a personal level, of course you can improve your chances by learning how to respond in interviews, making sure your CV is suitable, etc. But on a national level, all this does is re-distribute the jobs. It doesn't create any more jobs.


Steve.
 
dejongj said:
Exactly :) so you couldn't demonstrate your relevance to the role other than lying. Perhaps you just weren't suitable (y)
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That was my point.

big soft moose said:
Talking down roles and responsiblities isnt the same as talking them up - the latter is deception, the former modesty

Also perhaps you were applying for rioles that were too junior ?
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That was also my point. I'm talking about applying for the most basic of roles just to get working. I know the difference between talking down and up but no amount of talking down would have told a potential employer that I was happy to sit at a desk inputting data.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Fruit picking has always been done by migrant workers.
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Not really worth replying to the rest of the post after this first lot of twaddle.
I used to go fruit picking in the Summer holidays, and the fields were full of hard working English people. We were picking for an absolute pittance back in those days, and were lucky to go away with more than a tenner a day. It was back breaking work.
As someone else has pointed out, if you let the pickers live in caravans for the season then you can pay them less, and it pushes out the rest of the home work force.
Don't lets just stop at fruit picking though, we should examine the other areas where foreign workers have an advantage, such as delivery drivers. Many UK companies are employing foreign staff through foreign job agencies at lower rates, because the foreign job agencies are not bound by our NMW. This creates an unfair playing field, where the UK worker is not even able to apply for vacancies, and even if they were, they would not be able to compete with the foreign wages.
 
andy700 said:
Not really worth replying to the rest of the post after this first lot of twaddle.
I used to go fruit picking in the Summer holidays, and the fields were full of hard working English people.
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To be fair, If you talk to an old timer local in Kent (try to get a word in, anyway :lol: ), they will tell you that even before the EU, many of Kents fruit pickers were migrant workers.
So, they came from the northern counties, but they would still come south during the picking seasons for the work, starting early May and going back up north in early October.
Just because a worker isn't / wasn't foreign, doesn't mean they weren't a migrant.
 
Steve Smith said:
It doesn't really matter how easy or difficult it is to get a job. If there are not enough jobs to go around, there are always going to be a finite number of people out of work.
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So if there aren't enough jobs to go round for british people, why is it right we "need" workers from overseas?

Steve Smith said:
On a personal level, of course you can improve your chances by learning how to respond in interviews, making sure your CV is suitable, etc. But on a national level, all this does is re-distribute the jobs. It doesn't create any more jobs.


Steve.
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Agree.
 
andy700 said:
Not really worth replying to the rest of the post after this first lot of twaddle.
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Thanks for your considered response. I'm not suggesting it wasn't traditionally done by "hard working English people". My wife, for example, used to pick strawberries. She's actually from Kent but that was far from the rule - anybody prepared to put in the hours was welcome. It's seasonal work and that always requires a mobile workforce. For many years, the hop harvest provided months of work for "gypsies"* and anybody else who wanted it.

* I'm fairly sure that most Romanies aren't originally from Romania but it's a nice irony.
 
viv1969 said:
To be fair, If you talk to an old timer local in Kent (try to get a word in, anyway :LOL: ), they will tell you that even before the EU, many of Kents fruit pickers were migrant workers.
So, they came from the northern counties, but they would still come south during the picking seasons for the work, starting early May and going back up north in early October.
Just because a worker isn't / wasn't foreign, doesn't mean they weren't a migrant.
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I can only speak from my experience, because I know that many of my friends used to go to the fields with me, and there were special buses running to the larger farms.
I know that back in the day, a lot of people from London used to come down for the hop picking, but that was way before I did nay work out in the fields (strawberries, raspberries, blackcurrants, gooseberries).
I don't honestly think many UK people refer to "migrants" as other people from the UK, otherwise that term could be used for a travelling salesman or someone working on the oil rigs.
 
andy700 said:
I don't honestly think many UK people refer to "migrants" as other people from the UK, otherwise that term could be used for a travelling salesman or someone working on the oil rigs.
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Yes, but I prefer to use it in the English sense. Immigrant is different from migrant. It's also different from peripatetic.
 
ST4 said:
So if there aren't enough jobs to go round for british people, why is it right we "need" workers from overseas?



Agree.
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Wrong question, if there aren't enough jobs to go around how come the better candidates are according to this thread the foreigners. It is obvious that the jobs are there since others travel thousands of miles to get them.....I mean if they don't then what is this thread about actually?
 
andy700 said:
I don't honestly think many UK people refer to "migrants" as other people from the UK, otherwise that term could be used for a travelling salesman or someone working on the oil rigs.
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No it couldn't, because they're not the same. :-)
 
dejongj said:
Wrong question, if there aren't enough jobs to go around how come the better candidates are according to this thread the foreigners. It is obvious that the jobs are there since others travel thousands of miles to get them.....I mean if they don't then what is this thread about actually?
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There might not be enough jobs for everyone in Britain, there might be, but unless every person who can work is working in Britain from Britain, then I have to ask the countries need for foreign workers?
 
ST4 said:
There might not be enough jobs for everyone in Britain, there might be, but unless every person who can work is working in Britain from Britain, then I have to ask the countries need for foreign workers?
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do you have any stats for the amount of UK citizens vs immigrants applying for work?
 
because maybe the people out of work in britain arent all suitable for all the roles that are vacant - as a manager i want the best person for the job not some shiftless f***witt just because he's british
 
big soft moose said:
because maybe the people out of work in britain arent all suitable for all the roles that are vacant - as a manager i want the best person for the job not some shiftless f***witt just because he's british
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I almost think it's racist to imply our own people are less capable than others from abroad...

You can find capable British people in Britain. There is plenty of them
 
neil_g said:
true though. poles for example are ridiculously hard minimum wage workers compared to UK, in my experience and anyone I know who has worked with both.
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In some countries there is still no culture of slagging off, calling in sick, pretending to be working, replying to internet boards at work :p and so on. But I bet you they will eventually "adapt" after some time.

Back in 2004 I got a part time job in a contact centre. Half the employees were openly taking a p***, like not coming to work and next day chatting how she vomited all over after getting epic drunk... Another one quit after she qualified for some impressive child benefits, etc.
 
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neil_g said:
true though. poles for example are ridiculously hard minimum wage workers compared to UK, in my experience and anyone I know who has worked with both.
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Why cannot British people work as hard? If we accept people are people and it doesn't matter where they are from, I have to phrase the question, if Poles can work hard, why cannot British. I've worked with both, albiet not minumum wage level and I've found the British work no less harder than anyone else.
 
ST4 said:
I almost think it's racist to imply our own people are less capable than others from abroad...
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It would be if i'd said that, but what i said was that some of our own people are less capable (or diligent/hard working) than some from abroad - also some of the jobs are s*** and shockingly badly paid and British people have better knowledge of employment law and thus refuse to work for half on minimum wage ... this "undercutting" is not the fault of the migrants, but of the employer who fails to comply with employment law

ST4 said:
You can find capable British people in Britain. There is plenty of them
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So they should be appying for the jobs then - if they aren't then by defintion they arent capable

My freind Alan runs a building company - and employs both British and Polish brickie Gangs - he says that a noticeable difference is that told to be on site for 8.30 the Poles all turn up at 8.15 to make sure they arent late, and then get stuck straight into the work, short break, work, lunch work,and then leave at knocking off time or possibly afterwards if a job needs finishing

Some of the British brickies drift in at any time from 8.30 to 8.45 start the day with a cup of tea and actually start work at about 9 - then then work for a bit, have a long break including disapearing to the nearest greasy spoon, drift back do a bit of work , lunch ditto , drift back then start dispearing anywhere between 30 minutes before official finish time. They then get the arse when they are told they arent wanted tommorow and start spouting ukip b*****ks about "bloody imigrants" taking their jobs
 
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daugirdas said:
In some countries there is still no culture of slagging off, calling in sick, pretending to be working, replying to internet boards at work :p and so on. But I bet you they will eventually "adapt" after some time.
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ive had exposure to a warehouse environment with polish (and others) for the last 9-10 years. my opinion hasnt needed any adjusting from my experience of them.

sure there will be the occasional bad egg, you cant rule that out completely.
 
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