Rolf Harris 5yrs 9months

There was also a big cover up in Sunderland as well. Colin smart did his best to root out a load of abusers but only a few faced charges and he was sued by the council he worked for and made subject of a gagging order.
 
Byker28i said: ↑
Lots of countries have speeding fines that vary according to salary or wealth and speed. Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries. Finland regularly hands out huge fines and wasn't a Mercedes SLR driver fined $1m in Switzerland for driving at 180?
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And your earnings used to be assessed here too, but you all complained to much, like I said before be careful what you wish for.

Anyway, Bill Wyman? I seem to recall that prosecution must start within one year of her 16th birthday, so thats the end of that, as it is common ground what happened was with consent.
 
chadders said:
Rochdale council had set up an investigation, with a judge leading it, to investigate accusations of a cover up of Cyril Smith's activities at Knowle View School. That investigation has just been stopped following a request by GMP. That means although GMP are investigating over twenty cases of abuse there, nobody is now actively investigating a possible cover up in this specific case.
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What a surprise:(
Byker28i said:
Have you read the sentencing remarks of Mr Justice Sweeney?
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/judgments/r-v-rolf-harris/
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Those sentencing remarks are pretty damming.
 
What I find peculiar is the mention of not showing remorse.
Of course he's not going to display remorse, he entered a not guilty plea.
And yes, he's been convicted, but to show remorse would severely damage any appeal proceedings.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Those sentencing remarks are pretty damming.
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I also find the quote near the bottom interesting too ;)

In my view it is not appropriate for me to make any awards of compensation. The issues
involved are too complex and the information before me insufficient for me to be able to
properly do so.
 
simonblue said:
Were they aware of any of this, didn't they do anything to protect their daughter :confused:
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the 13 year old was a friend of Harris's daughter Bindi - most parents let their daughter go to friends houses for sleep overs and stuff , which is how it allegedly started.

I would assume , as is common in abuse cases, that she didn't tell her parents because she feared that she wouldn't be believed and/or she feared the consequences - its not unusual for abuse victims to believe that its their fault they are being abused ... a fiction that the abuser nourishes as it enables his offence
 
big soft moose said:
the 13 year old was a friend of Harris's daughter Bindi - most parents let their daughter go to friends houses for sleep overs and stuff , which is how it allegedly started.

I would assume , as is common in abuse cases, that she didn't tell her parents because she feared that she wouldn't be believed and/or she feared the consequences - its not unusual for abuse victims to believe that its their fault they are being abused ... a fiction that the abuser nourishes as it enables his offence
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You're familiar with what's common in abuse cases?
 
Bernie174 said:
Anyway, Bill Wyman? I seem to recall that prosecution must start within one year of her 16th birthday, so thats the end of that, as it is common ground what happened was with consent.
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how does that fly with Rolf then ? the 13 year old was a school friend of his daughter who is now 39 , so I'd assume the victim is a similar age , and the prosecution clearly didn't start 23 years ago.
 
viv1969 said:
You're familiar with what's common in abuse cases?
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yep - some of us are educated enough to read books - in this case the info comes from Paul Britton's two books "the jig saw man" and "picking up the pieces" about his work as a forensic psychologist - as one of the foremost in his field he has dealt with numerous abuse cases working with both abusers and the abused, and is eminently qualified to say what is common in such cases.
 
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big soft moose said:
the 13 year old was a friend of Harris's daughter Bindi - most parents let their daughter go to friends houses for sleep overs and stuff , which is how it allegedly started.

I would assume , as is common in abuse cases, that she didn't tell her parents because she feared that she wouldn't be believed and/or she feared the consequences - its not unusual for abuse victims to believe that its their fault they are being abused ... a fiction that the abuser nourishes as it enables his offence
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i understand that,but having worked on a few cares in most cases someone knew or suspected something was wrong,but turned an blind eye to it all
 
big soft moose said:
yep - some of us are educated enough to read books - in this case the info comes from Paul Britton's two books "the jig saw man" and "picking up the pieces" about his work as a forensic psychologist - as one of the foremost in his field he has dealt with numerous abuse cases working with both abusers and the abused, and is eminently qualified to say what is common in such cases.
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Ah...more Google. I see. :-)
 
simonblue said:
i understand that,but having worked on a few cares in most cases someone knew or suspected something was wrong,but turned an blind eye to it all
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Indeed - in a lot of cases the parents etc don't want to believe something is wrong - added to which no one wants to believe that about saint Rolf , or saint Jimmie and anyone who does dare to raise suspicions is often silenced
 
viv1969 said:
Ah...more Google. I see. :)
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Sigh - it would be really nice if you stopped making every thread personal.

if you don't believe that the behaviours I've mentioned are typical of abuse cases , why not discuss that like an adult, rather than trying to turn every thread into an argument ?
 
big soft moose said:
Sigh - it would be really nice if you stopped making every thread personal.

if you don't believe that the behaviours I've mentioned are typical of abuse cases , why not discuss that like an adult, rather than trying to turn every thread into an argument ?
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Oh I don't doubt the sentiment, merely the source.
 
viv1969 said:
Ah...more Google. I see. :)
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viv1969 said:
Oh I don't doubt the sentiment, merely the source.
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oh and just in case anyone else is silly enough to believe the above - see the attached proof that I do actually own the books concerned.

(now if we've quite finished - maybe we could return to the actual topic under discussion)
 
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big soft moose said:
oh and just in case anyone else is silly enough to believe the above - see the attached proof that I do actually own the books concerned.

(now if we've quite finished - maybe we could return to the actual topic under discussion)
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Well done! With defence like that Big Phil Scolari could use you now!

You did edit though :p
 
You read it in a book, hardly makes you an expert Pete.

I`ve read Stalingrad, does not make me an expert on the battle.
 
fracster said:
You read it in a book, hardly makes you an expert Pete.

I`ve read Stalingrad, does not make me an expert on the battle.
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I didn't say I was a definitive expert ade (although the author of the books in question is) - I just said that it was in my opinion of what is common in abuse cases. - it was pretty much a throw away remark until ruth decided to make it into a pathetic argument about whether I'd actually read what I said I'd read.


Having read a couple of books on the subject might not make someone an expert but it at least gives them grounds for an opinion ( just as your reading of "Stalingrad" would qualify you to an opinion on the battle - I've always thought the germans overreached but that it was luck rather than a grand strategy on the Russians part, but my spotty knowledge of the battle comes mainly from "war of the rats" which was fiction so I'd happily concede that your basic knowledge of the battle is probably better than mine if our opinions differ)
 
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The Germans should not have been so obsessed with Moscow and should have gone straight for the oilfields down south. Hitler should not have pulled troops to avenge Heydrichs death, he should have issued winter clothing and antifreeze. But all that is irrelevant compared to the work done at Blethchley Park.

Having an opinion is fine, but we should not pass it off as an expert opinion unless one truly is an expert, the above on WW2 are my thoughts, I certainly don`t have enough knowledge to pass them off as an experts opinions.

Anyway, i`m digressing, so shall get back in my shell and leave you all to it.

None intended chief.................:)
 
fracster said:
The Germans should not have been so obsessed with Moscow and should have gone straight for the oilfields down south. Hitler should not have pulled troops to avenge Heydrichs death, he should have issued winter clothing and antifreeze. But all that is irrelevant compared to the work done at Blethchley Park.
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Sounds reasonable - although tbh he might have done better to maintain the Russo/German pact until he'd beaten us - of course the other major tactical error was the Japanese attack on pearl harbour and bringing the Americans into the war ;) This could be an interesting conversation on a separate thread :D

None taken ade :)
 
chadders said:
Having never broken the speed limit in any of those countries, I'll have to take your word for it. However, just because they do it doesn't mean it's "right". I can't argue with a sliding scale for speed, but a dangerous driver is a dangerous driver regardless of his personal circumstances.
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If you travel to any other country you need to be aware of their rules and abide for them, but let's not get into speeding automatically is dangerous driving.
 
Byker28i said:
If you travel to any other country you need to be aware of their rules and abide for them, but let's not get into speeding automatically is dangerous driving.
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Having never broken the the speed limit in any of those countries. I'll have to take your word for it. However, just because they do it doesn't mean it's "right". I can't argue with a sliding scale for speed but a dangerous driver is a dangerous driver the faster you go the more you pay. But that scale should apply to everybody regardless of his personal circumstances.

There. Fixed it for you. Now, as you say, let's not digress into dangerous driving.
 
big soft moose said:
I'm not thinking so much that Wyman would be investigated for Mandi smith - so much as that someone who sleeps with one underge girl might be suspected to have done the same with others and thus be a likely target for Yewtree.

Also with regard to the charges against Harris - he says that they had a consensual affair after she turned 18 and she made the charges up after it ended badly - she says he had regularly been raping her since she was 13 and she was afraid to say no. If the court found him guilty on those charges it stands to reason that they didn't believe his version.
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I do not think that there is much difference at all between the behaviour of Bill Wyman and Rolf Harris.
Jimmy Savile however is quite another matter.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-DID-sleep-Bill-Wyman-I-14--man-life-God.html
 
While he was obviously a perv and deserved his sentence. I can't help thinking about all the multiple thousands of others like him, who over the years who have got away with the same thing.
Prior to the WW1 no one would even have cared.... after WW2 they would have only worried about not being caught and any scandal that might ensue, they would have not cared a hoot about the young person involved. Even twenty years ago young totty was seen as a perk of being a celebrity.
Samuel Pepys thought that the younger they were the "safer" they were. and at 3 pence a go on London bridge, not even worth hiding from public view. while he was at it.

Young people and women have always been targets, and they still are. We need this attitude to change and for them to be safe. Catching the Harris's of this world is just like polishing the tip of an iceberg, It should not make anyone feel safer.
 
Keith W said:
What is this criteria?

How does he meet this criteria?
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Just a guess obviously, but id say theyve taken his age into account, hes not necessarily a flight risk, very unlikely to offend again etc
 
Nikon_Nick said:
Just a guess obviously, but id say theyve taken his age into account, hes not necessarily a flight risk, very unlikely to offend again etc
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Seeing as last offence was 1986(?) I would say he would be very unlikely to offend again.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
While he was obviously a perv and deserved his sentence. I can't help thinking about all the multiple thousands of others like him, who over the years who have got away with the same thing.
Prior to the WW1 no one would even have cared.... after WW2 they would have only worried about not being caught and any scandal that might ensue, they would have not cared a hoot about the young person involved. Even twenty years ago young totty was seen as a perk of being a celebrity.
Samuel Pepys thought that the younger they were the "safer" they were. and at 3 pence a go on London bridge, not even worth hiding from public view. while he was at it.

Young people and women have always been targets, and they still are. We need this attitude to change and for them to be safe. Catching the Harris's of this world is just like polishing the tip of an iceberg, It should not make anyone feel safer.
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Very true,in some country men think their right to marry a young girl,the consequence over 74000 die last year alone due to this belief :(
 
simonblue said:
Very true,in some country men think their right to marry a young girl,the consequence over 74000 die last year alone due to this belief :(
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Interesting figure, where's the source for that please?

Is that the estimated number of abortion related deaths each year (from the 2004 report UNFPA. 2004. State of the World Population: The Cairo Consensus at Ten: Population, Reproductive Health and the Global Effort to End Poverty. New York: United Nations) http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2004/pdf/en_swp04.pdf

There's a report by the Population institute that states:
Child brides are young and under pressure to provetheir fertility, making them more likely to have early and frequent pregnancies.In many nations,adolescents (15-19) account for almost 20% of all births, amounting to 14 million births each year.
In Bangladesh, 100% of women aged 20-24 with at least five children had been married before they were 18. Such high fertility rates among child brides are largely due to a lack of access to family planning and contraceptive methods. In many areas, child brides encounter substantial resistance when seeking family
planning services. Consequently, adolescents account for at least 25% of the estimated 20 million unsafe abortions and nearly 70,000 abortion-related deaths each year.

The international centre for women has some interesting research on this: http://www.icrw.org/child-marriage-facts-and-figures

but I've yet to find such a definitive figure for deaths.
 
Byker28i said:
Interesting figure, where's the source for that please?

Is that the estimated number of abortion related deaths each year (from the 2004 report UNFPA. 2004. State of the World Population: The Cairo Consensus at Ten: Population, Reproductive Health and the Global Effort to End Poverty. New York: United Nations) http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2004/pdf/en_swp04.pdf

There's a report by the Population institute that states:
Child brides are young and under pressure to provetheir fertility, making them more likely to have early and frequent pregnancies.In many nations,adolescents (15-19) account for almost 20% of all births, amounting to 14 million births each year.
In Bangladesh, 100% of women aged 20-24 with at least five children had been married before they were 18. Such high fertility rates among child brides are largely due to a lack of access to family planning and contraceptive methods. In many areas, child brides encounter substantial resistance when seeking family
planning services. Consequently, adolescents account for at least 25% of the estimated 20 million unsafe abortions and nearly 70,000 abortion-related deaths each year.

The international centre for women has some interesting research on this: http://www.icrw.org/child-marriage-facts-and-figures

but I've yet to find such a definitive figure for deaths.
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It was some research I was doing a couple of mths ago,I picked up that figure up from the charity that is working with theses young girls.
Figure are always hard to get an very accurate picture of,but it's as close as they could come,from my own experience in the field,figure are always over stated or under.
 
Cheers found it interesting alongside some of the other reading I've been doing.
 
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