Road safety: UK set to adopt vehicle speed limiters from 2022

The black box is the contentious issue.
 
Cockney said:
The black box is the contentious issue.
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Dunno I am OK with that as well then if you are involved in an accident they the police etc can analysis the data and get more incite.
 
Big brother nanny state coming to you soon.
Why not just take it the whole hog as envisioned in "the fifth element", where the vehicle recognises the driver and automatically assigns penalties to their license and fines them (or disqualifies them) for any offences they commit.
How is this going to work on smart motorway or places with temporary speed limits?
Just another get out for insurance companys to save them from paying out.
 
The implementation and associated hardware is a huge new imposition which you will have to pay for and maintain, regardless of your intention or ability to 'speed'.
It will also be an endless source of bizarre and hilarious cock-ups.
They will get to a point where only limited vehicles are allowed on motorways, then on dual carriageways then in 30 zones.
I see motorbikes are unlikely to be affected - can see why as balancing centrifugal forces while cornering you do not want uncommanded speed changes.
Except it will be a good way to ban from roads as above.
I'm surprised at the gleeful welcoming this massive interference in personal responsibilities seems to be receiving.
 
The Association of British Insurers held out the possibility that premiums could be reduced as a result.
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...Possibility... lol


Cockney said:
The black box is the contentious issue.
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Yep, sounds more like a revenue generator to me otherwise it would be a speed restriction system and not a warning system which you can 'push' through (excuse the pun) and subsequently be fined for. Although I did also catch snippets that it will eventually develop into a full restriction system. Control, control, control..... lol No surprise. But then how are they going to replace all the speeding fine revenue?...hmmm......

Perhaps an interesting part will be the use of Galileo or not for the UK. The last I heard the EU were being infantile with regard to sharing it with the UK (despite our considerable investment and input, but I'm sure the anti-UK flock will arrive and defend the EU here). I presume the systems will be able to communicate will both GPS networks, if Galileo does end up fully operational and reliable.
 
Before they start playing with controlling your speed, they need to be able to make sure idiots drive on the left first; not lane 2, or lane 3, or 4. Get that out of the way and dual carriageways will be a lot safer.....

I'll hang on to my 2021 car for as long as possible.......
 
The problems I see are many, no doubt technology can overcome them but,
What happens if you are overtaking a lorry doing 60 say and then the driver speeds up for some reason. now you're in lane 2 and need the next exit but cant overtake it (yes I read that you can over ride it for just that example, but how long will that stay in place) so cant get off other than by slowing down and slotting in behind, unfortunately the driver behind the lorry in lane 1 wont let you in of course.
I understand the system will know the speed limit as it will track where you are and cross reference to it's database, or use speed limit camera recognition, will that handle temporary speed limits and no doubt if you break a temp limit you wont have a defence that the computer let you exceed the limit.
My son was telling me his adaptive cruise control recognises speed signs, which is fine until you come up behind a continental registered lorry which has a 120 (Km/Hr) plate, his cruise control saw that as 120mph and as the lorry moved out of his way his car tried to accelerate to 120 (mph) until he took control and it also saw the car in front as too close (if it had been trying to get to 120) and applied the brakes (rather too quickly for his tastes), nice for the guy behind, will this new system cater for that?
Are they going to fit it to only to 4/6/8 wheelers, hope so I'll have fun on my bike then, maybe it's not all bad after all. :-)
In reality few people will be breaking the speed limit anyway, especially on the motorway, they'll all be creeping around eeking out the last few volts of their EVs doing 50mph everywhere. In town the traffic is/will be so bad no-one will be doing more than 20mph anywhere anyway.
You know as I get older I am so glad I am not younger and looking at putting up with this rubbish for a lot longer, the good times truly have gone. Or am I just being an old fart.
 
I see this technology as being massively positive in urban built up areas.
In my town it is pretty much a 30mph 2 mile wide grid so once you enter the town the car will restrict / warn you of your speed and everyone has a nice safe quiet time.

on the motorways I suspect you will be able to over ride it with apparently excess force on the throttle job done.

I think its a real winner and can't blame the UK at all for endorsing this and planning its introduction.
 
MatBin said:
The problems I see are many, no doubt technology can overcome them but,
What happens if you are overtaking a lorry doing 60 say and then the driver speeds up for some reason. now you're in lane 2 and need the next exit but cant overtake it (yes I read that you can over ride it for just that example, but how long will that stay in place) so cant get off other than by slowing down and slotting in behind, unfortunately the driver behind the lorry in lane 1 wont let you in of course.
.
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I would question why with so little road left before you wished to exit you chose to overtake a lorry doing 60mph instead of staying in lane.
 
AgentOrange76 said:
I would question why with so little road left before you wished to exit you chose to overtake a lorry doing 60mph instead of staying in lane.
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Wouldn't matter if there was 300 yards or 300 miles, you still wont pass the lorry doing exactly the same speed as you.
 
AgentOrange76 said:
I would question why with so little road left before you wished to exit you chose to overtake a lorry doing 60mph instead of staying in lane.
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its funny you say that as I see so much "diving in" now, I always go on the proviso you allow a good half mile before the exit, get in the inside lane and be nice and safe, if you are behing an HGV say all you do is drop your speed to match.

nowadays its a BMW/Audi competition to see how late they can leave it to get off at the junction.
 
Mr Bump said:
its funny you say that as I see so much "diving in" now, I always go on the proviso you allow a good half mile before the exit, get in the inside lane and be nice and safe, if you are behing an HGV say all you do is drop your speed to match.

nowadays its a BMW/Audi competition to see how late they can leave it to get off at the junction.
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When you do the IAM course you are taught to accelerate past a vehicle when overtaking, as it's safer to get the overtake done as quickly as possible and you can then pull in to the left. I got stopped on the M4 a few years back, and the copper told me that whilst I was breaking the speed limit, he felt my driving was perfectly safe so he wasn't going to give me a ticket. You don't get that type of reasoning from robots/AI.....

You can accelerate past a vehicle in lane 1 and still pull in to a safe gap as you are travelling faster than they are. If the road is busy, you get over earlier, it's not rocket science is it?
 
I think a few things should be considered:

Taking more control away from the driver doesn’t mean the driver pays more attention on the road. If anything, it means they are less likely to pay attention. I recall a TV program where they fitted cars with speed limiters. The young drivers messed around more because there was more autonomy- no need to worry about going too fast because the car won’t let you.

Add further that statistics showed excessive or inappropriate speed was a contributing factor in something like less than 10% of accidents whereas driver error (eg failing to spot another vehicle) was almost 50%.

If you really want to stop casualties, ban humans from the road. Failing that, make everything autonomous to take the risk away almost completely.
 
Jelster said:
When you do the IAM course you are taught to accelerate past a vehicle when overtaking, as it's safer to get the overtake done as quickly as possible and you can then pull in to the left. I got stopped on the M4 a few years back, and the copper told me that whilst I was breaking the speed limit, he felt my driving was perfectly safe so he wasn't going to give me a ticket. You don't get that type of reasoning from robots/AI.....

You can accelerate past a vehicle in lane 1 and still pull in to a safe gap as you are travelling faster than they are. If the road is busy, you get over earlier, it's not rocket science is it?
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couldn't give a monkeys chuff whether it is rocked science or not, I feel safer slowing down and pulling in for a slip road, you feel happier accelerating past and pulling in I believe the words you meant are each to there own as long as its all safe.
 
Jelster said:
Before they start playing with controlling your speed, they need to be able to make sure idiots drive on the left first; not lane 2, or lane 3, or 4. Get that out of the way and dual carriageways will be a lot safer.....

I'll hang on to my 2021 car for as long as possible.......
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youre missing the point though, if a 2022 car is in front of you doing the limit that is the speed you will be forced to travel at in your 2021 car........its not rocket science is it?
 
Mr Bump said:
youre missing the point though, if a 2022 car is in front of you doing the limit that is the speed you will be forced to travel at in your 2021 car........its not rocket science is it?
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Not sure how that relates to cars doing considerably under the speed limit sitting in lanes 2, 3 and 4 instead of 1 and holding up other cars who want to go at the speed limit?
 
gman said:
Not sure how that relates to cars doing considerably under the speed limit sitting in lanes 2, 3 and 4 instead of 1 and holding up other cars who want to go at the speed limit?
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:agree: Exactly, or in the given example, an HGV that is limited to 60mph in an NSL zone.
 
gman said:
Not sure how that relates to cars doing considerably under the speed limit sitting in lanes 2, 3 and 4 instead of 1 and holding up other cars who want to go at the speed limit?
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I never said it does, in the motorway scenario an HGV is limited to is it 56mph: so even if a car was capped at 70mph there is plenty to get past it.
my point was simply in the real world of single track roads, the fastest car is the slowest car.
 
They once said controlling the speeds on a motorway will make your journey quicker. Tell that to somebody on the M25.......
 
I don't have a philosophical objection to a system which will enforce adherence to speed limits, but I am concerned that it may have an adverse effect on road safety.

In the UK, exceeding the speed limit is a contributory factor to 14% of road fatalities [1]. However, 32% of fatalities are pedestrians and cyclists [2], so clearly (and obviously) a lot of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities are happening in situations where the vehicle driver was not exceeding the speed limit. Why is this relevant? Well, there is some evidence [3] from a Belgian trial of intelligent speed adaptation (ISA) systems that, whilst they reduce the amount of speeding, they actually lead to increased average speeds, and especially on roads where the speed limit is low - which are, of course, the roads where most pedestrians and cyclists are found. When ISA systems are in use, there is a tendency for drivers to accelerate up to the speed limit and stay there, especially when the speed limit is low. They tend to drive to the speed limit rater than drive to the conditions. Furthermore, drivers in the Belgian trial were more likely to think that speed limits in urban areas and pedestrian areas were too low after the trial than they were before the trial. If you put all this together, I think there are grounds for concern that use of ISAs may increase the risk to the most vulnerable road users, i.e. pedestrians and cyclists.

[1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/743102/ras50008.ods
[2] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/744077/reported-road-casualties-annual-report-2017.pdf
[3] https://www.researchgate.net/publication/23526717_Driving_with_intelligent_speed_adaptation_Final_results_of_the_Belgian_ISA-trial
 
Jelster said:
Before they start playing with controlling your speed, they need to be able to make sure idiots drive on the left first; not lane 2, or lane 3, or 4. Get that out of the way and dual carriageways will be a lot safer.....

I'll hang on to my 2021 car for as long as possible.......
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What are these lanes 3 and 4 you speak of?
 
I've driven speed limited vehicles, once you learn a bit of patience they really are not an issue.

The company I worked for took the limiters out in the end, not because they were unsafe but because they affected profitability, they relied on drivers speeding to get the route finished.
 
Steep said:
What are these lanes 3 and 4 you speak of?
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Well here in the sunny south east, we have these things called "Motorways".... They are all dual carriageways, most have 3 lanes, some have 4, or even 5. These lanes are for overtaking other vehicles, because as you know, everybody keeps to the left on a dual carriageway don't they..... ;)
 
MatBin said:
My son was telling me his adaptive cruise control recognises speed signs, which is fine until you come up behind a continental registered lorry which has a 120 (Km/Hr) plate, his cruise control saw that as 120mph and as the lorry moved out of his way his car tried to accelerate to 120 (mph) until he took control ...
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Really? As I understand it, existing ISA systems (eg Honda, Land Rover, Ford) don't actually accelerate the car automatically when they detect a higher speed limit; they just allow the driver to accelerate. If your son had got the cruise control set to 120 mph, then I could understand how this might have happened - though in that situation it would certainly be a stretch to blame the car! - but otherwise I think I'm detecting the sweet smell of BS.
 
Steep said:
What are these lanes 3 and 4 you speak of?
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I think there's even 4/5 lanes at certain parts of the M8 and M74 around Glasgow as well, unless you are meaning that lanes aren't categorised like this? Or you are simply being pedantic because he said dual carriageways and not motorways as well.
 
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Jelster said:
Well here in the sunny south east, we have these things called "Motorways".... They are all dual carriageways, most have 3 lanes, some have 4, or even 5. These lanes are for overtaking other vehicles, because as you know, everybody keeps to the left on a dual carriageway don't they..... ;)
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tracksingle.jpg
 
Steep said:
What are these lanes 3 and 4 you speak of?
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Come South we have M-Ways and A roads (y)

As already touched on, 2 lorries one doing 56 the other doing 56.5 wants to overtake, several miles later, and a queue of frustrated drivers behind them.
People seem to be attracted to the middle lane, apparently the near side lane is for lorries :rolleyes: and the super men in German cars "stuck" in lane 3 or 4.
So now we have 3 or 4 lanes of cars doing 70 ( probably less in reality ) and the previous years makes and models trying to pass the new models, which are doing 70 mph
3 or 4 abreast.

A 421 duel [sic] carriageway, early morning is my usual jaunt, cruise control set at the speed limit (70)
Should I dare to go to the outside lane to overtake a lorry, A superior German car doing warp factor 7 turns up out of the blue, flashing his lights.
I don't think I know them but waving back is the polite thing to do? No?

I see road rage increasing ...
 
Cobra said:
As already touched on, 2 lorries one doing 56 the other doing 56.5 wants to overtake, several miles later, and a queue of frustrated drivers behind them.
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Been there, seen it but there's always going to be d1ickheads no matter what you try to do. My experience is that you get used to it pretty quickly and you learn patience if you didn't already have it. You learn to say "nope, not gonna get past him so I'll sit here and chill"
 
Cobra said:
A 421 duel [sic] carriageway, early morning is my usual jaunt, cruise control set at the speed limit (70)
Should I dare to go to the outside lane to overtake a lorry, A superior German car doing warp factor 7 turns up out of the blue, flashing his lights.
I don't think I know them but waving back is the polite thing to do? No?
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One of the benefits of an auto is that your left foot can gently rub the brake pedal...... The more they flash, the slower I go, and I often have to use my washers too.... ;)
 
Cobra said:
and the super men in German cars "stuck" in lane 3 or 4.
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I'm up and down the M4 a lot at the moment to and from London. I drive a German car and tend to find myself stuck in lane 1 by people driving things like the Hyundai i10, or other cars of that ilk, plus those with a much beloved high seating position that allows the driver to be king or queen of the road from their throne, that sit in lane 2 with their bumper in line with my rear wheel so I can't pull out to the second lane to overtake a lorry.

Middle lane morons act to promote the behaviour in others as those at attempt to observe correct lane discipline get impeded by them.

I'll be running my 19 year old car until the floor rots out or I can't bend enough to get in it, so no speed limiter for me, and if I took it to Germany I could wind it up past 160mph.
 
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