RIP Kodak - files for chapter 11

Wonder how this might affect the Kodak wet paper at out labs?

My local pro lab still uses it, I think.

They went Konica paper about a decade ago, and all our prints were coming back purple! We all demanded Kodak back.

I guess its over to Fuji crystal now.

Thinking back (reminiscing, hey it's a day for it):

I remember a spotty erbert in Jessops trying to tell me how Kodak APS system was wonderful and I really should buy this *pix such and such crap camera and that new 'advances in film technology' would mitigate the tiny image size. How the mighty have fallen...
 
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All this talk of selling off the film division and relocating, while nice, is incredibly optimistic. The problem with film production lines is they are very temperemental. They will be set up for the exact conditions they experience in the big kodak bunkers, and simply relocating them is not a quick, cheap, or easy process. When adox bought the rights to some of (I think) Efke's catalogue of products it took them a long time and a lot of money to get production back to a point where it was a quality product again. Note that's not the same quality product, just a quality product

Equally, just buying it and leaving it where it is comes with problems. You'd have to buy or lease large chunks of the kodak plant in rochester, which is expensive. Also whoever does decide to buy it will be unlikely to need such large facilities, or as many production lines, and so is unlikely to want to buy it in a whole piece

Finally you have the people who run the machines themselves. They would need to be relocated in the event of a dismantling and rebuild project to maintain as much of a production continuity as possible

I sincerely hope the film division can be spun off and sold as a going concern, but I don't hold out much hope
 
raathistle said:
All this talk of selling off the film division and relocating, while nice, is incredibly optimistic. The problem with film production lines is they are very temperemental. They will be set up for the exact conditions they experience in the big kodak bunkers, and simply relocating them is not a quick, cheap, or easy process. When adox bought the rights to some of (I think) Efke's catalogue of products it took them a long time and a lot of money to get production back to a point where it was a quality product again. Note that's not the same quality product, just a quality product

Equally, just buying it and leaving it where it is comes with problems. You'd have to buy or lease large chunks of the kodak plant in rochester, which is expensive. Also whoever does decide to buy it will be unlikely to need such large facilities, or as many production lines, and so is unlikely to want to buy it in a whole piece

Finally you have the people who run the machines themselves. They would need to be relocated in the event of a dismantling and rebuild project to maintain as much of a production continuity as possible

I sincerely hope the film division can be spun off and sold as a going concern, but I don't hold out much hope
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I agree entirely and you have said it much more eloquently that I did. Kodak's film operation is too big and too complicated to be 'spun off' I fear.
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Tri-x being sold under another name by another company.
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But Danny, you are vastly underestimating how much resources and the sort of factory lines needed to produce film that has consistent quality and within tolerances all the time. The constant reports of problems with Fomapan film give you an idea of how often quality control is a massive problem with film products. It takes an awful lot of commercial resources to ensure that every roll of T-Max I run through a camera performs and comes out exactly like each other. And Tri-X and especially tabular grain film like T-Max, and the extremely complex colour emulsions, are the result of a very very complicated manufacturing process that takes huge amounts of skilled and trained personnel to sort out. Unfortunately I don't have the background to further back it up - again, PhotoEngineer's posts on APUG help paint the picture significantly better.
 
freecom2 said:
But Danny, you are vastly underestimating how much resources and the sort of factory lines needed to produce film that has consistent quality and within tolerances all the time. The constant reports of problems with Fomapan film give you an idea of how often quality control is a massive problem with film products. It takes an awful lot of commercial resources to ensure that every roll of T-Max I run through a camera performs and comes out exactly like each other. And Tri-X and especially tabular grain film like T-Max, and the extremely complex colour emulsions, are the result of a very very complicated manufacturing process that takes huge amounts of skilled and trained personnel to sort out. Unfortunately I don't have the background to further back it up - again, PhotoEngineer's posts on APUG help paint the picture significantly better.
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I don't expect or believe that if the film dept of Kodak gets sold off, manufacturing output would remain as high, thats not what I'm saying, I'm not saying that a bid to buy out the film side of the company will result in a New Kodak, a new massive film manufacturer making film by the same volume. It obviously doesn't work.

Ilford's tiny compared to Kodak.....and they manage...so what's stopping something similar emerging from Kodaks ashes?
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Ilford's tiny compared to Kodak.....and they manage...so what's stopping something similar emerging from Kodaks ashes?
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Because the products that Kodak make, especially the colour emulsions, are more difficult than the B&W emulsions Ilford make. I'm not saying it's impossible, but whilst they both make film, they make very different film... so comparisons can't be direct.
 
Well its not over yet!! they have a 18 month loan to restructure and try and survive.
I did however buy a 50 sheet box of TXP 320, just in case.
 
Marvin d martian said:
Well its not over yet!! they have a 18 month loan to restructure and try and survive.
I did however buy a 50 sheet box of TXP 320, just in case.
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Good on ya Mart ...You'll go down in history as saving kodak with your purchase!! lol
 
LOL, I'm the saviour of Kodak? I think not, I like TXP320 but I prefer Adox films.

Mart
 
Short term plan: buy lots of tri-x and portra for pushing.

Long term plan: buy a noctilux, never worry about pushing again. :p Then say hello to Ilford and Fuji.

Seriously, here's hoping Kodak can scale back and still produce film/chemicals though.
 
freecom2 said:
Because the products that Kodak make, especially the colour emulsions, are more difficult than the B&W emulsions Ilford make. I'm not saying it's impossible, but whilst they both make film, they make very different film... so comparisons can't be direct.
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As far as I'm aware the only real difference is colour film. They both produce traditional grain 125 and 400 speed films, both produce tabular grain 100 and 400 speeds, and both have 3200 films. To make the statement as above, you'd need to be able to categorically state that kodak b&w films are more difficult to make than ilfords, thus by understanding the manufacturing processes in depth, of both? Not trying to be a jerk here but kodak don't hold some mystical magical film manufacturing secret,after all,they've ballsed it up, film's been made for many years, I fail to see how's it differs enormously from any other manufacturing industry, it's not like they're developing new tech or using phd professors to operate the machines.

Anyway, we digress. Fingers crossed they'll stay afloat, and if they do, that they still make film.
 
Hurray! Just as well, I've got nowhere else to hide stockpiled film :P
 
Edtog said:
Shame they never got to version 2 or 3 of this http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6131-6139 things could have been very different if they had.
In 2003 I was quite excited at the prospect of a cheaper FF camera, instead of the 1ds at £5600!
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Or you could argue that if they had never made version 1 they might be in a better place today.

Kinda the same with APS, that was just a marketing strategy to make labs buy expensive Kodak machinery, they weren't interested in APS as a long term product. I know of a fair few people who still hold a grudge against Kodak for putting them or the labs they used to use out of business.

Seems like the company has had poor or at least misguided management, instead of trying to compete on dime-a-dozen inkjet printers and compact digitals they should have focused on what they already did well at - film, paper and chems. That said, there probably have been times where it has looked like film is dead and you can't blame companies like Kodak for looking elsewhere for sustainable income.
 
They have done rather well for us in stills film, Ektar and the new Portras are the newest most advanced films going. No one else has eben innovating new emulsions*.

*Fuji has developed new motion pcture emulsions (And they look simply stunning)
 
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