RF602 ok with 580EXII but probs with 430EX?

Marcus Geezer

Marcus Geezer

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I have always used my RF602 on my Canon 40D commanding my Canon 580EXII and works lovely jubbly. Just tried it out with both my 430EX speedlites and I am having some problems.

It would seem that when you press the shutter button half way down the 430EX changes from M to ETTL and then when you press all the way down it then fires in ETTL leaving the 430EX mode in ETTL. Whether on or off the camera if you press the RF602 transmittter button half way down then all the way down it does exactly the same.

I only have one receiver to play with and looking to buy two more from FITP but want to see if:

a) I am doing something wrong (settings)?
b) Problem with the transmitter/receiver?
c) RF602 Incompatibility issue with the 430EX?

Most of my work so far has been using my ST-E2 with the flashes on manual, but may have to do some outdoor work soon and I know the optical comms will likely fail so I need to get this sorted quickly.

Help please?
 
Hey Marcus, myself and Spiritflier tried something a week or two ago and had very similar results on a 7D and 5D (old one not the MkII). If I half pressed the shutter it would flick back into E-TTL and like you said, it only happened with the 430EX and not the 580MkII. As far as I know since Si moved over to a 5D MkII he hasn't had issues but I'll get him to confirm that.
 
Sounds weird :thinking:

Just to be clear, the switch on the foot of the flash is set to 'off' and not 'slave'?
 
Hi Marcus,

I'm definitely spending too much time on this forum when I get a text from Steff telling me to get on here and Skype ASAP! :D

We did a little shoot the other week and set up the following:

7D and 5DMKI with RF-602's on a 580EXII, a 430EXII and a 430EX. All three flashes were set to slave 'cos I was going to use the onboard commander on the 7D and let Steff have the RF-602 trigger.

Apart from the 430EXII, the other two flashes reverted to E-TTL mode whenever the radio trigger was activated. I have no idea why one was able to handle both settings and the other two wouldn't but it was an unusual set-up insofar as we were both using the same flashes but with different triggering methods.

The boudoir shoot I did yesterday with Holly involved all three guns set to Manual but NOT in slave mode and fired with the RF-602's. I didn't have any problems at all so I reckon the best bet would be to ignore the slave mode on the flashes and just leave 'em in normal manual mode.

If you really need to use E-TTL, make sure the RF-602's are switched off and use the ST-E2 instead.

Let me know how you get on.
Take care,
Si
 
Hi Graham,

Do you mean that the RF emissions from the older 430 could be interfering with the signal from the RF-602's? That might explain why it affected my 580EXII and Marcus's 430EXII and not the others... Maybe there's a proximity issue?

I can't quite replicate the shoot 'cos I don't have the 7D or the ST-E2 anymore and using the 580EXII as a master would negate the possibility of using the RF-602.

Cheers,
Si
 
my 430exII has always been great on an rf602 :S will have a little play see if I can find what the issue is
 
Thanks everyone for posting and especially to Si and Steffan who seem to have made a sterling effort to do so and share your experience!

I've had a play with my 430EX set in manual and my RF602.

Slave = Always switches to ETTL.
Off = Works fine.

It would seem that when in slave mode the 430EX expects to receive an optical signal only. When it recieves commands through its hotshoe it must assume that it is on camera and switches to ETTL mode. Sound like a plausible explanation?

Hence why Steffan and Si couldnt share the same flash setup using different triggering methods?
 
Spiritflier said:
Hi Graham,

Do you mean that the RF emissions from the older 430 could be interfering with the signal from the RF-602's? That might explain why it affected my 580EXII and Marcus's 430EXII and not the others... Maybe there's a proximity issue?

I can't quite replicate the shoot 'cos I don't have the 7D or the ST-E2 anymore and using the 580EXII as a master would negate the possibility of using the RF-602.

Cheers,
Si
Click to expand...

That was my first thought, going by the problems Pocket Wizard had with the Canon speedlights. I could, of course, be completely wrong :lol:

Out of interest, does either resetting the 430EX to factory default settings or changing the channels on the RF602s make any difference ?
 
Marcus Geezer said:
Thanks everyone for posting and especially to Si and Steffan who seem to have made a sterling effort to do so and share your experience!

I've had a play with my 430EX set in manual and my RF602.

Slave = Always switches to ETTL.
Off = Works fine.

It would seem that when in slave mode the 430EX expects to receive an optical signal only. When it recieves commands through its hotshoe it must assume that it is on camera and switches to ETTL mode. Sound like a plausible explanation?

Hence why Steffan and Si couldnt share the same flash setup using different triggering methods?
Click to expand...

surely it needs to be in manual as if it were on camera instead of in slave mode to work on a radio trigger, cos the trigger is slaving not the flash?
 
With Marcus, the problem arose with his 430EXII and with me it was my 580EXII and older 430EX... I'd have expected both or neither of the newer guns to have suffered rather than one or the other. I don't understand why my 430EXII worked fine regardless of the triggering method.

That's the bit that doesn't make sense from where I sit. :bonk:

I'll have a mess about with my flashes tomorrow and try different channels on the RF-602's to see if that has any effect but the lack of an ST-E2 (or the 7D) will hamper things a little.

Si
 
david1701 said:
surely it needs to be in manual as if it were on camera instead of in slave mode to work on a radio trigger, cos the trigger is slaving not the flash?
Click to expand...

Agreed. Switched to 'off' (rather than slave) and then in manual to control output where the trigger receives the signal and commands the flash to fire. When in 'slave' it always defaults to ETTL when it receives a command via the hotshoe.

Spiritflier said:
With Marcus, the problem arose with his 430EXII and with me it was my 580EXII and older 430EX... I'd have expected both or neither of the newer guns to have suffered rather than one or the other. I don't understand why my 430EXII worked fine regardless of the triggering method.

That's the bit that doesn't make sense from where I sit. :bonk:

I'll have a mess about with my flashes tomorrow and try different channels on the RF-602's to see if that has any effect but the lack of an ST-E2 (or the 7D) will hamper things a little.

Si
Click to expand...

Si just to clarify I am running 2 x 430EX Version I and not the version II. Had the same exeperience with both and therefore seems to fit the same pattern as yours. Will try my 580EXII when I get a moment tomorrow hopefully.
 
Marcus Geezer said:
Agreed. Switched to 'off' (rather than slave) and then in manual to control output where the trigger receives the signal and commands the flash to fire. When in 'slave' it always defaults to ETTL when it receives a command via the hotshoe.



Si just to clarify I am running 2 x 430EX Version I and not the version II. Had the same exeperience with both and therefore seems to fit the same pattern as yours. Will try my 580EXII when I get a moment tomorrow hopefully.
Click to expand...

Kind of makes sense to me.

RF-602 is strictly manual only. That's manual-manual, not E-TTL manual.

I'm guessing that when set to slave mode, the gun is expecting a signal through the E-TTL pins, which the RF-602 has even though they only operate as a wake-up caller. There must be some coincidence of electrical activity going on that makes the flash think it's waiting for an E-TTL command - which being in slave mode, it would be.
 
HoppyUK said:
Kind of makes sense to me.

RF-602 is strictly manual only. That's manual-manual, not E-TTL manual.

I'm guessing that when set to slave mode, the gun is expecting a signal through the E-TTL pins, which the RF-602 has even though they only operate as a wake-up caller. There must be some coincidence of electrical activity going on that makes the flash think it's waiting for an E-TTL command - which being in slave mode, it would be.
Click to expand...

I would offer the opposite is true? When in slave mode isnt it expecting to receive an optical signal from the master (whether speedlite, ST-E2 or camera such as the 5DMkII?). When it gets a signal through the hotshoe thats when it goes from manual to E-TTL automatically for whatever reason Canon have decided?

With optical commands you can use ETTL or have the flashes set to manual. I've used both in the past but only ever use them in manual now.
 
Mornin' Marcus,

Sorry for the mix-up, I thought yours were EXII's. Doh! :)

I haven't had a chance to try things out yet... If you're anything like me, I doubt that you'll use E-TTL very often anyway. In fact, I haven't used it that way in ages.

Take care,
Si
 
Spiritflier said:
Mornin' Marcus,

Sorry for the mix-up, I thought yours were EXII's. Doh! :)

I haven't had a chance to try things out yet... If you're anything like me, I doubt that you'll use E-TTL very often anyway. In fact, I haven't used it that way in ages.

Take care,
Si
Click to expand...

No worries I felt it important to clarify as they seem to behave a bit differently regarding this issue.

I have to admit I bought the ST-E2 so I could have the ETTL on hand if needed but I found that although it tries its best (bless) it's slight adjustments to get the metering correct can lead to slightly different exposures and of course limits creativity a bit. I tend to push the exposure a little at the moment and the ST-E2 exposure in ETTL is just not my taste.

As you do I prefer the fulll manual method and gonna give radio triggers a go and if happy will probably solely use them. Have had a few issues with the ST-E2 failing to communicate due to bright ambient as well which is a bit limiting.
 
I got rid of my ST-E2 for precisely the reason you just mentioned... I did hear of a work-around using it on the end of an E-TTL cord but never got around to trying it.

I used the RF-602's at the last wedding I did and they performed faultlessly. I've got another one tomorrow which will be the first time the 5DMKII's been used in anger. Fingers crossed. :D

Take care,
Si
 
Marcus Geezer said:
I would offer the opposite is true? When in slave mode isnt it expecting to receive an optical signal from the master (whether speedlite, ST-E2 or camera such as the 5DMkII?). When it gets a signal through the hotshoe thats when it goes from manual to E-TTL automatically for whatever reason Canon have decided?

With optical commands you can use ETTL or have the flashes set to manual. I've used both in the past but only ever use them in manual now.
Click to expand...

That's the thing - in slave mode it IS expecting an optical signal from the master. By putting the flash in slave mode you've confused it - it's expecting a master pre-flash command and not a 'manual' trigger through the hot-shoe. Sure, it shouldn't switch itself from manual to E-TTL, but then you can't use the RF-602 when it's set to slave anyway so that's kind of moot.

When you're in E-TTL manual (slave mode) the flash operates not via the hot-shoe (which should maybe be switched out, but clearly it's not with this model) but by optical triggering. The pre-flash still fires in all E-TTL modes, from the master. You must be in full manual-manual with the RF-602.

Using the long extension cord as Si suggests is a very effective way of working around E-TTL problems in bright ambient. FITP does them for £40 I think.
 
HoppyUK said:
That's the thing - in slave mode it IS expecting an optical signal from the master. By putting the flash in slave mode you've confused it - it's expecting a master pre-flash command and not a 'manual' trigger through the hot-shoe. Sure, it shouldn't switch itself from manual to E-TTL, but then you can't use the RF-602 when it's set to slave anyway so that's kind of moot.

When you're in E-TTL manual (slave mode) the flash operates not via the hot-shoe (which should maybe be switched out, but clearly it's not with this model) but by optical triggering. The pre-flash still fires in all E-TTL modes, from the master. You must be in full manual-manual with the RF-602.

Using the long extension cord as Si suggests is a very effective way of working around E-TTL problems in bright ambient. FITP does them for £40 I think.
Click to expand...

Sorry Hoppy you are completely right I think I must have had a senior moment! Apologies and thanks for putting me straight.
 
Marcus Geezer said:
Sorry Hoppy you are completely right I think I must have had a senior moment! Apologies and thanks for putting me straight.
Click to expand...

That's okay bud, this strobisty stuff is very confusing ;) I only know by learning the hard way - I don't find these flash guns are very intuitive at all! I'm okay with Canon now, but don't ask me about Nikon :thinking:
 
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