resonable priced rangefinders

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puggie

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Bill
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I'm looking for something in a rangefinder, ideally under £50 second hand, I like the vintage leica look, Fed, Zorki, Kiev etc seem to be the obvious suspects. Will be used for candids and just general piccies when I cannot be bothered to take an SLR.

What is worth looking into? I want something retro, cool, pocketable and fun to use.
 
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Ricoh 500GX or GN are small and very cool with good lenses also Yashica 35 (I think) is similar in size and looks. But there are so many more as well. I think that the Russian ones are seriously heavy bits of kit but the ones I have suggested do not have interchangeablr lenses like they do.

Andy
 
Most RF, with the exception of Nikon, Canon, Leica and Contax are 50 £ or less. There are many to list; but what specs do you need?

Size
Lens quality
reliability
condition

If you give some indication of what you are thinking, its easy to narrow them down.

Retro : they are all retro, considering they were all made atleast 35 years ago
Cool : They are all cool ( depending on where you store them :D)
Fun to use : they are all similar to use, not sure about the fun bit

I would not touch the ruskies - they are pretty unreliable for most parts
 
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The little Olympus XA takes a bit of beating for the money. Great sharp lens.

Not a true RF, but the Olympus Trip 35 is also a cracker.
 
IainG said:
The little Olympus XA takes a bit of beating for the money. Great sharp lens.

Not a true RF, but the Olympus Trip 35 is also a cracker.
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Why isn't Xa a true RF Iain? Xa 2, 3 4 arent RF; but the XA is ; isn't it?
 
I'm looking for something with a relatively long and thin form, easy to slot into a jacket pocket. Fixed lens between 35-60mm (35mm equivalent) would be fine, interchangeable lenses would be a bonus but not a big deal, I'd rather have one good lens. Reliable would be nice :). Condition isn;t a deal breaker, I'd rather have something good and reliable that is a bit tatty round the edges, I'm happy to re-cover if the leatherette is peeling etc.

Leica III and Voightlander Bessa type of thing appeals to me but I know they are well out of budget, but that is the type of thing that has grabbed my interest.
 
they're huge!


Umm - what does "35mm equivalent" mean? We are talking about 35mm cameras here surely?
 
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I have used the following:

Absolutely compact, eminently pocketable

Olympus RC : fantastic lens, great features. Easy to find on ebay
Voigtlander VF 101 : great lens. Difficult to get
Ricoh 500 : Great camera for 20 £

( and XA, as Iain mentioned, is a classic, if only for the lens)

There are many more which look like the 500; they are really the same camera, made by the same OEM and branded differently

Slightly bigger

Konica Auto SII : fantastic lens and very reliable
Minolta Hi Matic 7S : outstanding lens . smaller than SII
Petri : average lens; will not recommend it

If you go upto 100£ ish ; you can get a Canon RF with a 50 mm lens. Leica look alike body ( and Leica thread mount) with lightmeter built in. I have handled it ( but not owned it)
 
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Ujjwal, yes I did mean the XA is a RF, but the Trip 35 is not. The problem even with the XA is that really only the XA (not the XA II, or III) is worth investing in in that range.

Another recommendation I'd have is the Yashica Electro 35. Outstanding optics and can be obtained for around the £50 mark.
 
puggie said:
Leica III and Voightlander Bessa type of thing appeals to me but I know they are well out of budget, but that is the type of thing that has grabbed my interest.
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The rangefinder market is very fashion lead at the moment. A few years ago you could barely give an RF away (Leica excepted), now everyone wants one. This has lead to an explosion in the price of very modest - some would say poor - cameras, that happen to have a rangefinder patch. As plenty of Leica users pre-focus for street photography, the RFs natural habitat, you have to ask why people don't do the same with a small SLR or zone focus viewfinder camera?

Undistinguished Japanese rangefinder cameras have a disproportionately large number of bidders driving the price up, a spin off of the Leica effect. One RF area that hasn't been completely saturated is old school 35mm folders. Apart from the posh Zeiss end you can still pick a bellows camera for a sensible price and many have good lenses. Failing that, buy yourself a black Olympus OM1 or Pentax MX, Tippex a hyperfocal line on your 35mm lens and re-learn to love an SLR, it'll save you a fortune.
Just an opinion, like. If you gotta have one, you gotta have one!
 
Ambermile said:
they're huge!


Umm - what does "35mm equivalent" mean? We are talking about 35mm cameras here surely?
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I mean same field of view as I get from a 35mm SLR, Does a range finder give the same image with a 50mm lens and a 35mm SLR, I assumed not thinking the lens to film distance would be less than with a reflex mirror.

I'll trawl fleabay and let you know what I think of each of your suggestions.

Thanks.

EDIT: @ Colpepper... Not really what I wanted to hear (market being fashionable ramping prices up), I didn't really want to go for a bellows type, guess I'm really looking for a retro fashionable 35mm compact (b****r its the likes of me ramping up the prices).

I may just find an M42 pancake lens for my Spotmatic and that then becomes much smaller.
 
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It's the same, the mirror only reflects the image onto the focusing screen rather than all the way out to the viewfinder.

Why specifically a rangefinder? Are you against zone focus or estimating distance?
 
colpepper said:
. As plenty of Leica users pre-focus for street photography, the RFs natural habitat, you have to ask why people don't do the same with a small SLR or zone focus viewfinder camera?
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I disagree with you Colpepper ( I always feel strange calling you that). There is no reason for RF to be exclusively street photography camera - though it offers significant advantage in that application.

SLR's simply cant become pocketable - the geometry wont allow that. RFs can : and I think that is its strength.

Show me a SLR which can approach RC size -and RC lens is as good as any SLR for most applications.

I have a back pain, which always recurs if I carry something heavy ( never ever I carry a laptop); and RF is a saviour for me. Even a Contax G1 fits my coat pocket, not to mention the CL. In fact I really can never see the point of having an SLR unless one uses lens longer than 135mm.

Scale focus cameras are great, but in terms of lens quality really only 2 are outstanding - Rollei 35 ( Tessar or Sonnar), plus maybe Minox ( though I thought the lens was not outstanding). The problem with scale focus is for snap shots if you need to use shallow DOF. I loved my Rollei; but didn't get along with scale focussing

Just my 2p; and sorry for disagreeing
 
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ujjwaldey8165 said:
SLR's simply cant become pocketable - the geometry wont allow that. RFs can : and I think that is its strength.

Show me a SLR which can approach RC size -and RC lens is as good as any SLR for most applications.
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Ah, but I suspect you may be missing the point. The buzz market isn't in Minox and Rollei squirts, it's in retro clunkers. There are numerous AF pocket cameras with perfectly good lenses that weigh so little you'd forget they were there but that isn't what people are after, they want the image (twice) of a 'street tool'. It's my misfortune to believe that it doesn't really matter what camera captures the photograph so long as the lens is fairly sharp and you enjoy using it enough to take with you.
And please, call me Col, everyone else does.

Col
 
Ambermile said:
It's the same, the mirror only reflects the image onto the focusing screen rather than all the way out to the viewfinder.

Why specifically a rangefinder? Are you against zone focus or estimating distance?
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Thanks for the education :)

Why specifically a range finder:

cos I havn't used or owned one before so I want to try one

cos IMHO this just exudes coolness:

LeicaIIIf.jpg


I'm just looking for different stuff really, I like the look of that new Fuji finepix X100 digital that is coming out next year: I'm looking for something similar in a 35mm camera to play with and see if I would use it as much as I think.


EDIT... I know I'm being a complete tart about this!
 
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Yashica Electro 35 series should fit the bill nicely. Mint examples can go for £90+ though so look for well used one
 
puggie said:
EDIT... I know I'm being a complete tart about this!
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Nothing wrong with that, it just depends how much you want to pay for the privilege. I wouldn't feel too comfortable with £2 - 3k pointing into someone's mush and Leica or Voigtlander are the only ones I like. Therefore it's SLRs for me.
Odd logic but there you go.
 
mcc49 said:
Yashica Electro 35 series should fit the bill nicely. Mint examples can go for £90+ though so look for well used one
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Don't Electro 35s suffer from the defunct mercury cells that plague many old cameras?
 
I'm going to buck the trend here - if you like the look of old leica's but don't want to pay the price for one, just to see how they handle, and how you get on with them, but an old FED-2 for a few quid (providing you're up to carying the weight:lol:) give it a bash, and if you don't like it, punt it back out. That's pretty much what I intended to do with my FED-3, I discovered I don't really like the way rangefinders handle - but it's a handy thing to have around, if you've got a shoot in the rain - no electrics anywhere. It's built from recycled T-34 tanks, solid to the point of overbuilt, but occasionally with issues regarding the shutter mechanism. But its cheap.
 
colpepper said:
1. The buzz market isn't in Minox and Rollei squirts, it's in retro clunkers.

2. There are numerous AF pocket cameras with perfectly good lenses that weigh so little

3 And please, call me Col, everyone else does.

Col
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3. Sure Col.

2. Show me a sub 50£ AF camera that allows selecting the aperture; something most folks want

1. Rollei 35 - Tessar goes for 100 £, and Rollei 35 - Sonnar about 150. Not cheap; but certainly worth the money.

In the end; Col, its all about fascination - the machine or the craft.
 
ujjwaldey8165 said:
In the end; Col, its all about fascination - the machine or the craft.
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That, I can certainly agree with. I figure my Nikkormats are made almost as well as a Leica, have all their user control and are optically pretty close (though the Leica police may knock on my door at any moment for claiming the heresy) but at a penalty that you have to use a camera strap instead of a pocket.

The joy of beautifully made objects isn't lost on me, I just think collectors have turned the quality RF market into a hedge fund.
 
IainG said:
Another recommendation I'd have is the Yashica Electro 35. Outstanding optics and can be obtained for around the £50 mark.
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These are excellent, I've got a couple they have a really nice 1.7 lens but thet're not really pocketable unless you have very big pockets :eek:
 
colpepper said:
Don't Electro 35s suffer from the defunct mercury cells that plague many old cameras?
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Not a problem, I got a replacement for mine with no need for an adaptor.
 
it seems £25-30 would buy me a reasonable Fed-2...

How bad are they (weight and size are fine)? this might be the way to go to test the water on rangefinders.

Although I am considering an industar 50-2 on my spotmatic could be just as pocketable.
 
RaglanSurf said:
No, I'm going this week. How's Delhi for old cameras?
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They dont go well together Nick. Dont even try; you might as well give the money to charity. Remeber; it was illegal to sell real cameras in India since the 60s through to the mid 90s, except the crap ruskies( imports were only allowed by the accredited professionals); and the only cameras legally available were the Agfa Click ( they went as Click II. III and finally the zenith of camera technology, Click IV) Illegal imports were available to the very rich at exorbitant prices. :D:D

Make sure of the ceiling above you , BTW :lol: ( do you know which Hyatt you are staying?)
 
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puggie said:
it seems £25-30 would buy me a reasonable Fed-2...

How bad are they (weight and size are fine)? this might be the way to go to test the water on rangefinders.

Although I am considering an industar 50-2 on my spotmatic could be just as pocketable.
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Theres a couple of Zorki's and a Fed-2 at MWClassics at the moment - at least you can ask them if the shutters etc are okay. The Zorki-1 with the folding lens looks the pick of 'em.
 
IainG said:
Ujjwal, yes I did mean the XA is a RF, but the Trip 35 is not. The problem even with the XA is that really only the XA (not the XA II, or III) is worth investing in in that range.
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Well I can confirm from (initial tests) that the XAII lens is quite sharp, so if bought cheap would be a handy pocket camera.
 
I had some 'old' collectors cameras recently, one of which was a Werra, odd thing but more usable than the a Zorki & a Kiev similarly sold. Apparently all needed some tinkering to make them right though. So be careful unless your the tinkering type.
 
I think for the money, looks and performance of the optics. It has to be a Zorki with the jupiter 8 lens. The Zorki 4 was my first RF and I'm still blown away with what is achievable with this camera after 7 years of collecting/using. No batteries need so there is a saving, however you would need a light meter to get correct exposures, but these can be picked up cheap.

I have tried quite a few other RF over the years and only two stick in my mind as good contenders when it comes to performance for the money. Vivitar 35 ES and the Konica C35 both bought for around the £15 mark each. The build quality of the Konica is not the best and one common problem to watch out for is an oxidised ground wire from battery to light sensor, badly corroded battery compartments can be the tell tell sign for this or the light meter not working. The Vivitar is like a work of art inside, the build quality is top notch IMO.

Failing that you could always get a compact and range finder attachment for the flash shoe. I have fun with a cheap plastic Yashica ME-1 cost £3 and a £2 + £2 postage range finder attachment. The results of images are quite surprising for such a camera, unfortunately I don't have any scanned negs to show you but I'm sure a search engine would return some.

Hope that is of some help and good luck in your search for that camera. ;)
 
Marmalade said:
I think for the money, looks and performance of the optics. It has to be a Zorki with the jupiter 8 lens. The Zorki 4 was my first RF and I'm still blown away with what is achievable with this camera after 7 years of collecting/using. No batteries need so there is a saving, however you would need a light meter to get correct exposures, but these can be picked up cheap.
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They don't have the classic Leica shape but getting hold of reliable copies of these later models doesn't seem to be a problem.

In addition to the 4, the 6 and later 4K are good ones to look at. I rather like the 6. :)

If you're thinking of getting multiple lenses I'd suggest looking for one of the old turret finders, but note there are two versions so you need to get the one for Zorkis.

For lenses, look at the Jupiter 12 (35/2.8), 8 (50/2), 9 (85/2).

Just thinking of Bill's desire for something 'pocketable', these aren't that small -- if that is important then the suggested XA would be a good way to go.
 
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Thread from the dead!!!!!!!!!

So I bought a Zeiss Ikon in the end to try medium format and zone focussing, then bought a little hot-shoe rangefinder for it. I realised I like medium format but not zone focussing and the pokey little viewing window, the seperate rangefinder just seemed to make thing a bit long winded.

So I have a Rolleicord to scratch my MF itch and I'm looking at 35mm range finders again.

Size is not such a big issue any more I'm finding smaller cameras (trip etc) a bit fiddley so want something a bit chunkier. I'm still looking at leica mount rangefinders and pondering Bessa R2s, Canon 7, or do I just say sod the budget and go buy a tatty Leica M3 from the off? The Bessa strikes me as the sensible option where a good £200 should get me a nice reliable camera body, If I stretched to £3-400 I could maybe get a well used M3.

thoughts?
 
Bessa, you'll get a nice camera for that money. I have the R3A and it's a great little camera and the Voigtlander lenses are excellent as well.

Andy
 
What is the difference between the R2 and R3 and the 'A' and 'M' models?
 
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