Request For Critique Gone Bad.

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I'm really not kidding when I say the site does look like it fell from 1998. I've been building websites since 95 and I'm really very surprised to see a site like this. I would have thought that people would be able to see current trends in design, even if they're not designers. This site is quite an old style, which is why its surprising. You just don't see things like this these days.

Default blue underlined hyperlinks. They just don't look nice on a black background. Its quite harsh to look at. Then you have the same default blue on yellow, which again just doesn't work. Its not easy on the eyes. You're using tables. Tables for design isn't good. Its not what they were intended for. You should be using XHTML + CSS. XHTML to structure the content and CSS to design the page. Tables, with borders, were considered bad design about 6-8 years ago. Your links page is a hideous mess. Its all over the place. Do you really need all those links? On the contact page the links at the bottom are oddly bigger than some others. You're using popups for the images, which again were considered bad many years ago. I haven't seen the term 'webring' in a very long time. I didn't know anyone still used them. You've also embedded wmv files, which isn't very accessible. You should use a Flash slideshow.

The code is just horrible. I'm sorry, but it just is.

Code: 
  <p align="center"><span class="style55"><u><br>Exhibitions</u></span></p>
        <div align="center" class="style2"></div>

        <div align="center" class="style2">
            <p class="style42"><span class="style50"><u>Autumn/winter 2008 tour dates to be announced. </u></span></p>
          <p class="style33 style50 style51"><u>Autumn / winter 2007</u></p>
          <p class="style33"><span class="style50">THANKYOU!</span></p>
          <p class="style34"><span class="style18">I would like to express my deepest gratitude, to all my friends and colleagues, who helped make my UK touring exhibition, such a massive success. I am looking forward to the 2008/9 touring exhibition and to  working with you all again. </span></p>
          <p class="style33 style43"><span class="style53"><u>Books</u></span></p>

          <p class="style34"><span class="style18"> Several of my most recent black and white images, will be published in a number of books in early 2008 and my own book of posters and  prints later in the year.</span></p>
          <p class="style34"><span class="style18">Book titles and isbn to follow. </span></p>
          <p class="style3">

The align attribute isn't a good thing to use, and I think its even been deprecated now.

Take a look through these for some ideas.

http://www.donaldweber.com/2007/
http://richardkern.com/
http://www.eoloperfido.com/portfolio.htm
http://jameswojcik.com/
http://www.artcoup.com/movie.html
http://www.verahartmann.com/launch.html
http://mondino-update.net/index.php?page=1
http://www.yangtan.com/v01/flash.html
http://www.candacemeyer.com/
http://www.galerierodolphejanssen.com/artists_works.php?iso=luchford_glen
http://www.eugeniorecuenco.com/index2.htm
http://www.mariotestino.com/main.htm
http://www.carldekeyzer.com/
http://joesnyc.streetnine.com/
http://www.ericogden.com/
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
http://www.mrtoledano.com/index.html
http://www.wddg.com/jms/
 
I refrained from commenting earlier because I didn't want to add to the pummeling, but in defence of the pummelers she did set herself up for it. Scarlet asked for critique of the site and her work. The site is very poorly constructed to say the least and there's no excuse for awful spelling and grammar with the amount of help that's available in just about every program these days. The photography is so-so, only the sculpture shows any real effort and while it's not my cup of tea I can see where some might like it.

When you put something up for public scrutiny it's important that you make the effort to make it look the best, if you don't then you invite negative comments like those we saw earlier.
 
Hi petemc!

I am not a site designer - I am a photographer/artist. I agree with much of what you say (I didn't like the look or navigation of her site - particularly the popups) and I'm sure that your comments are constructive but I think that you are missing some important points:
1 Not all sites produced before today are bad just because they're old/old-fashioned.
2 Scarlet (anyone) is entitled to have their site look how they want.
3 Her site exists but is not well received so what can she do about it now? Can she re-work what she's got or would she really be better starting again from scratch?

My opinion is she should start again having first done some more research - but that's ONLY my opinion.

I can't remember if she built the site herself, had it built or used a template but assuming that she wants a quick fix re-start where should she start looking? So can you or ANYONE recommend a good cheap or free place to start?

(This assumes that she will bother to come back)
 
Think some folk saw an easy target here with sarky comments but some folk should look to their own sites before judging others.

Iain
 
Steep said:
I refrained from commenting earlier because I didn't want to add to the pummeling, but in defence of the pummelers she did set herself up for it. Scarlet asked for critique of the site and her work. The site is very poorly constructed to say the least and there's no excuse for awful spelling and grammar with the amount of help that's available in just about every program these days. The photography is so-so, only the sculpture shows any real effort and while it's not my cup of tea I can see where some might like it.

When you put something up for public scrutiny it's important that you make the effort to make it look the best, if you don't then you invite negative comments like those we saw earlier.
Click to expand...

I agree with all you've said there, Steep, except that there has been very little critique, lots of criticism and a fair amount of school-yard bullying.

If there had been a mature attempt to constructively criticise from those that should know better, then Scarlet may have benefited from the collective knowledge and experience. Sadly, this site has let itself down badly in that respect.
 
barsbyart said:
Hi petemc!

1 Not all sites produced before today are bad just because they're old/old-fashioned.
Click to expand...

Thats not what I meant. The design is outdated and has been considered bad design but web designers around the world for many years. We've learnt from our mistakes and grown from that. Google's design is brilliant and hasn't changed since day 1, but still works perfectly. Scarletts design didn't work back then, and works even less 8 years on because of the progress made. Its from a time when there were no web designers, just the developers who had built the web. That was my point.

2 Scarlet (anyone) is entitled to have their site look how they want.
Click to expand...

But if its costing you sales, clients and visitors then whats the point? She did also ask for critique so that point goes out the window.

3 Her site exists but is not well received so what can she do about it now? Can she re-work what she's got or would she really be better starting again from scratch?

My opinion is she should start again having first done some more research - but that's ONLY my opinion.

I can't remember if she built the site herself, had it built or used a template but assuming that she wants a quick fix re-start where should she start looking? So can you or ANYONE recommend a good cheap or free place to start?

(This assumes that she will bother to come back)
Click to expand...

She should totally start over. Look at the examples I gave or hire someone who knows what they're doing. www.w3cschools.com has some good advice on coding.
 
Since I posted the above comments I've done a bit of searching and examining. I am convinced this thread was not started by someone looking for genuine critisism but as part of a 'mass' attempt to get her site up the rankings, petemc posted some links to forum threads earlier and there are many more almost identical ones (google for redintheraind and scarlet to see for yourself) along with entries in just about every art related site on the net. While 'we' may not have done ourselves proud I don't really think it will have slowed the Scarlet advertising train any.
 
I completely agree Steep. I deal with spam on an hourly basis and have been for years. This stood out for me as spam. If she sticks around and becomes a part of this community then I'll happily apologise. However looking at the copy / paste forum spamming she's done I don't feel that will be the case. They all read exactly the same and it doesn't show willingness to become part of our community. So yes some of us may have acted badly, but then on the flip side if she has just come here to spam her site and get some hits she's only trying to use us all. It doesn't quite show her in the best light. Step back a minute and look at it that way before throwing your handbags about and popping off your monocles at this thread. What what.
 
Steep, I now completely disagree with you as your suggestion is that the ends justify the means.

I'm not interested in this:
Steep said:
google for redintheraind and scarlet to see for yourself.
Click to expand...

Whereas I am concerned by this:
Steep said:
'we may not have done ourselves proud
Click to expand...

Irrespective of the "what / if / why "of Scarlet's motivation, her treatment on this forum was reprehensible and there is no excuse for it.

OK, I've said my piece on this subject. History teaches there is no justification for the obscene
 
There is if she was just trying to use us all by spamming links to her site with no desire to become part of our community. Just like every other spammer whose posts are deleted and accounts banned, or should we be nice to them too?
 
petemc said:
There is if she was just trying to use us all by spamming links to her site with no desire to become part of our community. Just like every other spammer whose posts are deleted and accounts banned, or should we be nice to them too?
Click to expand...

We have moderators and site admin to deal with those problems, bring it to their attention and let them deal with it.
 
poacher said:
We have moderators and site admin to deal with those problems, bring it to their attention and let them deal with it.
Click to expand...

Who have posted here after I pointed it out. I'm sure they are aware of it.
 
petemc - I'm not disputing any of your points; I'm just saying that if anyone wants c+c so they can do better let's not only say what's wrong but also try to show a way forrward.

Re. the site costing her sales - well artists can be tempremental and if they choose to starve ...
She asked for c+c and you gave it - fair enough!

I don't understand all the code stuff 'cos I'm not a site designer. Also, not all of us can afford to employ a designer (at this moment) so perhaps we have to suggest multiple/alternative ways forward.

Jonnyreb - Totally agree with you. Whatever S's motivation and whether she joins this community or not this thread will remain as a 'black mark' for a while and may put off others who would otherwise have joined and benefitted.

But what's done is done and it might be time to draw a line... (and a lesson for ourselves) and move on.
 
barsbyart, check the other thread about web design. I've helped there perfectly well. I know what to do :p But as I said, should we treat all spammers with open arms just so we can be fluffy wuvy duvy to each other? As for the black mark this thread can be deleted instantly.
 
Okay, there's no point in further recriminations.

I'm not going to delete, at the moment, but I am closing. There are plenty of other threads where people have posted their websites never to return. If it's photographic we tend to leave it, this is after all a photographic forum, anything else gets stamped on.

If someone thinks a post is spam, HIT THE REPORT BUTTON, don't treat it as an opportunity to have a go.
 
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