Renault Guilty?

:thinking: Leaving like that surely means they must be guilty :lol::bonk: I wonder where in the rules it says don't crash on purpose! :rules:
 
briatore and symonds appear to be guilty as hell

it will be interesting to see what punishment renault are handed, as mosley has already said that this is much worse than the 'spy scandal' and must be punished accordingly.... so will it be a bigger fine (doubtful any team would be capable of paying a £100m+ fine) or will it be exclusion? will the very fact that renault have sacked those responsible allow them to now bow out of the sport?

symonds, briatore and piquet conspired to make nelson crash,

whilst it actually answers a few questions it asks many more,

for example, was alonso aware of this 'plan' etc


one thing we can be sure of is that this has cleared f1 of some particularly unsavoury characters (N.Piquetx2, Briatore etc and seemingly symonds(im not really sure what to make of him as i always thought of him as a reasonable chap but maybe this changes things)
 
I'm genuinely surprised by this. Having read the transcript of the radio recordings, it seemed Symmonds and Briatore were genuinely angry and surprised about Piquet crashing out... Pity. I hoped it had been invented by Piquet as revenge for being kicked out for being, frankly, useless. Seems not. It does seem the scandal was executed by only the 3 men, rather than the whole team so with them gone, hopefully the FIA will allow Renault (and Alonso) to compete for the remainder of the season, allbeit with a few less points (and a few millions less in the bank).

F1 cannot afford to lose a big investor and team like Renault.
 
Last edited:
GeForce Junky said:
:thinking: Leaving like that surely means they must be guilty :lol::bonk: I wonder where in the rules it says don't crash on purpose! :rules:
Click to expand...

Apart from being dangerious and reckless, it would properly fall under unsporting conduct to.

They must have some pretty damming evidance to not stand there ground, and to sack two very pivotal key personal just like that.

Theres talks of Renault pulling the plug next year, i think this could actually be the pulling of it.

Sure questions will be asked of Alonso on the basis thats two pretty damming incidents his been linked to.

Or how much is this a set up to keep F1 in the news, seems every year to be something that a team or key figure has been naughty and pulled the headlines, and talk on forums. Like here, not often we talk about the actually racing that goes on on track.
 
Strange.. I've read the transcripts and there seems to be nothing that incriminates either Flabby or Pat. The only 2 'unusual' things would be Pat changing Alonso to a 2 stopper, but that could've been because he was catching up to Nakajima.

The other one is Piquet asking what lap hes on, a bit strange after only 5 or so laps of the race but even so I personally dont see that being bulletproof evidence.

Will be interesting to hear what evidence Piquet has..

James
 
They look as innocent as a puppy standing next to a big pile of poo.

I think the 'evidence' is something they have taken from the telemetry in conjunction with what they've been told by piquet - although no details yet.
 
GeForce Junky said:
:thinking: Leaving like that surely means they must be guilty :lol::bonk: I wonder where in the rules it says don't crash on purpose! :rules:
Click to expand...

Pretty sure there are rules covering endangering other drivers, marshalls and spectators not to mention rules covering actions deemed to deliberately affect the result of a race. If anyone cares to look, the regs are all available on the FIA's website.
 
see if I picked up from the scripts that Nelson couldnt see his board (so he says) and asked for counting laps instead, alittle fishy, and then on Lap 16 he is told to "push like hell" that to me is alittle strange and it could be seen as a hint that its time to crash

never liked Flavio personally and glad to see the back of him

I think Renault will walk now and BMW will now be given there place for next year now they have found a buyer
 
whitey said:
never liked Flavio personally and glad to see the back of him
Click to expand...

I second that, I'm glad to see the back of him.
Mr playboy has always been a waste of spce.
It's a shame about Pat Simmonds as I've always seen him as a good engineer.
I'm excited to see Lotus return to F1 and this should open the gates for more teams to apply for an F1 license if Renault do pull out.
Too be honest, I can't see them doing unless they are thrown out.
 
I think they will go to be honest as its a huge gap to fill that symonds left and a huge task in rebuilding their reputation after all of this

They looked at leaving a while back (Singapore last year) when all of this started so they may use this as there get out of jail card and leave now
 
Massa will be peeved at this - could have cost him the title last year.
 
Another viewpoint is that it is surprising Nelson Piquet snr, a 3 times world champion and very experienced F1 driver, who is father and also manager to Nelson Piquet jnr to comprehend that he would support a such a dubious track incident which could cause injury to his son.

At the same time how likely is it that a young and inexperienced driver like Piquet jnr would undertake such a incident without some dialogue with his experienced father?
 
Last edited:
erding said:
Another viewpoint is that it is surprising Nelson Piquet snr, a 3 times world champion and very experienced F1 driver, who is father and also manager to Nelson Piquet jnr to comprehend that he would support a such a dubious track incident which could cause injury to his son.

At the same time how likely is it that a young and inexperienced driver like Piquet jnr would undertake such a incident without some dialogue with his experienced father?
Click to expand...

because piquet senior is a person of dubious (if reasonably clever and shrewd) character as well, i really really cant abide him at all. but as you said its strange that he perhaps neither knew or kept it quiet (maybe as an ace up his sleave in such a situation as occured with renault sacking jnr)
 
whitewash said:
because piquet senior is a person of dubious (if reasonably clever and shrewd) character as well, i really really cant abide him at all. but as you said its strange that he perhaps neither knew or kept it quiet (maybe as an ace up his sleave in such a situation as occured with renault sacking jnr)
Click to expand...

My own views on Piquet snr. are not dissimilar to yours. Whilst it would appear that at present the 'ace up his sleeve' theory carry's weight, at the time of the incident he would be quite aware that the incident could cause injury or worse to his own son. There is also his claim that Alonso knew all about it. So is it believable that Piquet snr. has no knowledge of the plan yet Alonso is fully aware.

I would consider it more likely that Piquest snr. and jnr. went along with this plan because they perceived it was to there advantage. When jnr. got sacked this incident was brought to the FIA's attention by Piquet snr. - because he was an upstanding member of the F1 community or was it for revenge.
 
revenge almost certainly, but it was the stupidity of symonds and briatore that seemingly didnt see the bigger picture and what they were effectively giving piquet was a bigger bargaining tool than they would have thought. after all nelson has got his revenge, they sacked him.... he destroys their credibility and ability to work in f1 again (i presume).... unfortunetly for renault its their name that gets dragged through the mud.
 
im interested to see if Simmonds and Flab turn up on monday at the hearing, are they still going to sue Piquet Jnr for blackmail and whatever? Its all very interesting..Statement from renault on monday?
 
Now Renault have been given a two year suspended disqualification

alittle silly IMO
 
Looks like they got a pretty crappy slap on the wrist. Ban, suspended til the end of 2011 to make sure they don't do it again.
Funny how the FIA don't really punish the teams they want to keep in the game...
 
Symonds banned for 5 years, Flavio banned for an indefinate period and they'll not grant a superlicence to any driver associated with him.

Isn't that against EU rules, stopping him working?
 
not enough IMO

after the McLaren fiasco they were fined $100 for alot less than this

Renault should be banned and fined IMO, everything done here goes against what the FIA have promoted over the past decade

just goes to show that Bernie still looks out for his mates when he needs to put business first
 
"just goes to show that Bernie still looks out for his mates when he needs to put business first "

AS far as I know, Bernie has nothing to do with the hearing - he just owns the rights to F1.

Who ever said FIA courts are fair anyway? it was pretty much a given they were going to get a slap on the wrist... with F1 on the verge of crumbling - you really think they were going to push another manufacturer & engine supplier out?

Dont get me wrong - I'm not saying the decision is right or Renault are innocent or right in what they asked Piquet to do, but it was obvious from day one of this that they wouldn't be chucked out.

James
 
Last edited:
whitey said:
not enough IMO

after the McLaren fiasco they were fined $100 for alot less than this

Renault should be banned and fined IMO, everything done here goes against what the FIA have promoted over the past decade

just goes to show that Bernie still looks out for his mates when he needs to put business first
Click to expand...

good idea that fining a car manufacturer (the race team made a loss last year i believe) that is probably as a whole currently running low on cash due to the economic climate, the financial penalty of that would have to exceed that of the mclaren fine (200-300mil) that really wouldnt go down well at all and wouldnt look favourable for the FIA. i think its also important to realise that renault were not party to the plans (seemingly only flav, symonds and piquet were in on it) carried out their own internal enquiry and expelled those involved and then pleaded guilty to the charges, therefore the punishement has to be lenient.
I presume the FIA have also looked into the fact that if they were to expel renault from the championship they would be destroying the livelyhoods of everyone within that company.


personally i think the penalties are fair given the cicumstances and the financial climate we are currently experiencing, motorsport is best rid of flav, it wont prevent him working, he can do whatever the hell he likes, bar manage drivers and appear at any FIA event/associate with any team within an FIA event. whether this ban from will have any repercussions in his football role i dont know, but it could have

the FIA do want to keep renault in the championship, as they also wanted to keep mclaren in the championship post the stepney/coglan affair. and dishing out a punishment which doesnt wipe them clean off the radar is the only way to do this.


bernie has absolutely no sway within the FIA he is just a rights holder.
 
Last edited:
2 Year suspended ban. Should be banned. May aswell do nothing.
 
IMHO The penalty makes no sense, especially when compared to the McLaren penalty for a far less serious offence.

Regardless of the implication that Flav and Simonds cooked up the plot alone, isn't the company always responsible for the actions of it's employees!!

Just proves the FIA can't be trusted to be neutral.
 
I reckon if Ferrari did this they'd end up with a Knighthood.

Stupid consistently inconsistent FIA
 
Witchhunt.

They (Spanky Max) got Flabby O'Briartory's head on a silver platter so weren't too bothered about any real punishment for Renault.
 
Englishman said:
Regardless of the implication that Flav and Simonds cooked up the plot alone, isn't the company always responsible for the actions of it's employees!!
Click to expand...

so you as an employee of a company would be perfectly ok with the company going to the wall because it had been fined such a massive amount that it could do nothing but close its doors due to the actions of 2 employees?:shrug:

renault have in effect been fined but it isnt widely reported, i believe that they have agreed to sink alot of money into the FIAs safety academy or whatever it is called
 
What the actual amount they're giving to the safety cause hasn't been announced and what may be a lot of money to us mere mortals could be a mere trifle to Renault S.A. Probably less than Flabby's redundancy package should they have quit while he was still there.

I still wouldn't be surprised to see them drop out at the end of this season - no leader, no chief engineer, Alonso off to Ferrari (possibly), sentence hanging over their head should the FIA decide to find them guilty again - good time to sell up and be off IMO.
 
renaults woe gets worse as they've just lost 2 major sponsors in the space of 24hrs, ING was leaving at the end of the year anyway and mutua madrilena have terminated their contract. doesnt look too good for renault, hopefully they can get some sponsorship onboard before next year
 
I reckon that could be the final nail in the coffin for Renault. Look at Brawn, 1,2 in the drivers championship, leading the constructors championship bu they've got the least amount of sponsorship on the grid it seems. If they can't get sponsorship in their position I can't see a team with poor-average results, an ousted technical lead and some middle order drivers once Alonso has gone looking promising to sponsors.

Aren't there another 3 teams next year too? More teams for Renault to fight with over sponsors money.
 
Kev M said:
I reckon that could be the final nail in the coffin for Renault. Look at Brawn, 1,2 in the drivers championship, leading the constructors championship bu they've got the least amount of sponsorship on the grid it seems. If they can't get sponsorship in their position I can't see a team with poor-average results, an ousted technical lead and some middle order drivers once Alonso has gone looking promising to sponsors.

Aren't there another 3 teams next year too? More teams for Renault to fight with over sponsors money.
Click to expand...


brawn have sponsorship for next year although they havent officially said who it is though yet, virgin is off to manor (or virginGP which it will more likely be come). virgin and brawn couldnt agree on a figure for full sponsorship and i think they offered him the best parts of the car for his branding so couldnt get a proper title sponsor for this year, so had to wait until next year.

renault may struggle to find more sponsorship after this but im sure they will manage it.

from watching practice 1 this morning renault only appear to have TOTAL and bridgestone left on the car!
 
They've got even less sponsorship than that after the french guy drove the car into the wall.;)
 
I think Renault are the perfect team to sponsor right now... their sponsorship is going to be dirt cheap, and think how much coverage they will get over the next 2 races. Obviously its understandable why ING and the others have pulled out, but the perfect time to invest me thinks.

Maybe its just me though... :p

James
 
renault confirmed for next year hasvent they? only toyota left to commit
 
I thought Toyota have said they are racing next year? but their budget isn't being confirmed till later next month.

BMW Sauber are the only time I'm aware of that aren't racing next year, but a buyer has been found. There isn't enough room on the grid for them so there is apparently going to be a meet where they either agree or disagree to extend the grid.

Thats what I've heard anyway.

James
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top