removing white outline on high contrast edges

ianmarsh

ianmarsh

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I edit a lot of my B&W shots in Nik's Silver Efex Pro 2. I often find I get a white outline around sharp edges with high contrast. Today's shot, for example, has a brown stone building against blue sky. I applied an orange filter to darken the sky, boosted contrast globally and the whole building now has a white outline that makes it look like I composited the shot (badly). What's the best way to remove this? Ideally not using Photoshop as I don't have that on my computer, though I can get access to it as a last resort. I have lightroom, if that helps.
 
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I have used Elements in the past to do this. Select the subject which has the halo around it then invert the selection. Use the clone tool to cover the halo with whatever is surrounding the subject. You may need to adjust the "refine edges" tool.

Sorry, but I have never had any success in LR doing this.
 
Try turning the sharpness down in Silver Efex Pro (don't know where the slider is to do that but...). Generally, white and black edges are "ringing" due to oversharpening.
 
Thanks guys. I think I am going to have to get a version of Photoshop for edits like these. Elements should do me as long as it handles layers (goes to check).

I don't think it is over sharpening that is directly causing the edges as they happen before any sharpening is added. I am sure the processes are related though as it is on high contrast edges. I'll have a play.
 
ianmarsh said:
I don't think it is over sharpening that is directly causing the edges as they happen before any sharpening is added. I am sure the processes are related though as it is on high contrast edges. I'll have a play.
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It'll be some sort of contrast enhancement slider if not sharpening....
 
ianmarsh said:
I don't think it is over sharpening that is directly causing the edges as they happen before any sharpening is added. I am sure the processes are related though as it is on high contrast edges. I'll have a play.
Click to expand...

It'll be the colour transition from blue to brown, with the colour filter you've applied probably darkening the sky.

The tendency is for the intermediate pixels at the boundaries of colour areas to resolve to a neutral tone and be left bright in comparison when you've cut the blues to a darker grey tone in the b/w conversion.

I'm afraid my best solution (in PP) is Photoshop - add a new layer with blending mode set to 'Darken' and using either the clone or healing brush, fill in the brighter area from nearby tones in the sky.

After some experimentation, I have also found that shooting with a colour filter on the lens helps (yellow/orange or red depending on the depth of cut on the sky you want) and then convert from RAW using a standard daylight WB. Obviously, you lose the flexibility of an entirely digital conversion to monochrome, but if you are shooting for a 'dark sky' look, it may be preferable to do it in camera.
 
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droj said:
Are you sure of that?
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Nope. That's why I said "may". More likely some inadvertent oversharpening in my view, but that had already been suggested. I'm getting some similar white edges on a couple of recent shots. I'm going to do some experimenting tonight to see what step they appear in workflow. I'm probably oversharpening, but perhaps inadvertently due to an export setting (in addition to my manual sharpening which I do by eye) or perhaps because Flickr does some more sharpening, too. See this one... Look in front of the wing. Click through to Flickr for the full-sized version.

DSC_4328 by winkyintheuk, on Flickr
 
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Musicman said:
The tendency is for the intermediate pixels at the boundaries of colour areas to resolve to a neutral tone and be left bright in comparison when you've cut the blues to a darker grey tone in the b/w conversion.

I'm afraid my best solution (in PP) is Photoshop - add a new layer with blending mode set to 'Darken' and using either the clone or healing brush, fill in the brighter area from nearby tones in the sky.
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Thanks musician, this is what I thought must be happening but wasn't able to express. It happens more or less as soon as I apply the colour filter, so before any sharpness or added contrast or conversion to output jpeg (it is a TIFF file from SEP, if that makes a difference). I am sure these other elements contribute to the severity of the issue, but it appears very early in the process.

Your solution makes sense. I seem to remember that was what I did on a photo when the problem was more localised and it was a simple job. The photo I am working on now is full of white lines so it will be a good test.
 
Keep it simple, just use the burn tool (well in PS anyway, not sure if this is in lightroom or not).
 
In Silver Efex Pro three sliders can contribute to halos, in addition to any clarity boost in Lightroom or oversharpening elsewhere as well as the colour filter:
  1. Structure
  2. Dynamic Brightness
  3. Soft Contrast
As Musicman said, a good way to get rid of halos if you can't avoid them altogether is to use a new layer in PS or PSE, set to darken mode, with a clone brush also in darken mode. Sample from the sky and paint along the white edges. Remember left-click followed by shift-left-click draws straight lines.

I sometimes find that altering the 'film types' colour response in SFX gives a better result than applying a colour filter.
 
ianmarsh said:
I edit a lot of my B&W shots in Nik's Silver Efex Pro 2. I often find I get a white outline around sharp edges with high contrast. Today's shot, for example, has a brown stone building against blue sky. I applied an orange filter to darken the sky, boosted contrast globally and the whole building now has a white outline that makes it look like I composited the shot (badly). What's the best way to remove this? Ideally not using Photoshop as I don't have that on my computer, though I can get access to it as a last resort. I have lightroom, if that helps.
Click to expand...

This is usually by pushing for, and expecting to achieve too much when processing. Any aliasing around the objects that are not within what Silver FX decides is "blue" will be ignored, and exaggerated. Just sounds like you're over processing to me. You'll never get a normal sky to appear really dark without it leaving some artefacts behind if you push too far.

There are limits t how much you can change things post-process, and you're possibly finding them now.

Why not post up the RAW and see what we can do with it? Not a JPEG... editing JPEGs is crap.

You are shooting RAW aren't you?
 
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Yes, it is a RAW file but all I did was add the red filter at default settings in SEP2. Sure, boosting contrast etc made it much worse but the white line appeared immediately. Maybe the default settings are too aggressive but I will have a play. How/where do I post a RAW file?
 
A quick play moving the file straight from LR to SEP2, add red filter at default settings and the white line appears - boost the strength of the filter and the line eventually disappears (as the whole shot gets darker and less contrasty ). Weaken the filter and the white line eventually disappears as the whole shot gets brighter and less contrasty along the edges. I suspect Rob's answer above is the right one in my case and that the intermediate pixels are resolving to a neutral tone that goes bright under the red filter.
 
ianmarsh said:
Yes, it is a RAW file but all I did was add the red filter at default settings in SEP2. Sure, boosting contrast etc made it much worse but the white line appeared immediately. Maybe the default settings are too aggressive but I will have a play. How/where do I post a RAW file?
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Use drop box or something similar is the usual way.
 
Not sure if someone has answered this correctly, but there's an easy fix for this (actually, 2 but I'll only talk about one for now).... Open your image in photoshop (doh), Select the 'Healing Brush Tool', set it's mode to darken and brush over the white line that goes around your subject. Make sure you use a nice small soft brush though, and voila, sorted :)

But the main thing with this, is for it not to happen - use selective sharpening to try and prevent it.
 
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