rememberance day hypocrisy

big soft moose

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Now just to be clear i'm in no way saying remembrance day is a bad thing, far from it - but every year what turns my stomach is the various hypocrites ( in the media, politicians of all hues, celebs and doubtless many ordinary folk too) who get all dewy eyed and emotional about 'the fallen' on 11/11 but treat the armed forces as out of sight out of mind the other 364 days of the year.

its all very well to say " we will always remember" but always doesn't mean 1/365th of the time

How many of these people think about the sacrifices our armed forces (past , present, serving, injured or killed in the line of duty) made/make day in day out on any other day of the year , how many regularly give money to Help for Heroes or the various other similar charities, how many take issue with govt policies that put our armed services at unnecessary risk, or treat them like expendable pawns , or fail to give them proper care/pay/pension/conditions etc

I'm not saying everyone falls in this bracket by any means , but there are far too many in society who may be quoting " for our tomorrow they gave their today" on remembrance sunday but who's true feelings about the armed forces are far better summed up by the poem 'tommy'

"its tommy this, and tommy that, and chuck him out the brute ,
but it's 'ero of his country when the guns begin to shoot"
 
Harsh... I'd love to disagree with what you've said, but I cant.
I feel you're right, to some people they're only thought of once a year, and its just plain not right.
 
It's a difficult one....I think the reality is though that people are never going to think of the fallen every single say so it is useful to have that day....and I'm glad that we do, but I'd love for this country to do more to remember both the serving and those that have served
 
It would be Rememberance Days rather than Day otherwise.
 
As with everything, it's become common place, and sadly as such people don't take as much notice.
As a kid I remember this being about those that died in the two World Wars primarily and it's great that
it is now seen to include all all the fallen, perhaps they should be added to memorials throughout the country.
The World hasn't been without a conflict involving many countries for a long time now, I think we all know that
World Peace is a unlikely to ever happen
 
Do you include your self in that Pete?

no - I give to help for heroes by monthly direct debit , through my day job I work with a social enterprise that works with wounded and traumatised servicemen (they use our land, we use them for staff training the money from which supports their ex forces work) , I do lobby my MP when the govt takes stupid arse decisions that put our troops in unnecessary danger and so forth.

I have friends still serving, and friends among the wounded, and the regular announcement that another brave serviceman has been killed or wounded in a foreign land never flows past me as 'just another news item'

I'm not saying i'm unique, i'm sure there are many who do truly remember - but that doesn't apply to as many people as it should, particularly those in a position of power and/or influence
 
As with everything, it's become common place, and sadly as such people don't take as much notice.
As a kid I remember this being about those that died in the two World Wars primarily and it's great that
it is now seen to include all all the fallen, perhaps they should be added to memorials throughout the country.
The World hasn't been without a conflict involving many countries for a long time now, I think we all know that
World Peace is a unlikely to ever happen

they are aren't they ?, certainly they are round here - and they were in Wiltshire where I used to live

I certainly agree that world peace will never happen , but that makes it all the more important that those who serve are not forgotten , rather than briefly remembered today and tomorrow then put out of mind for another year
 
maybe all the hypocrites should stop buying poppies then, stop being silent at 11am.
 
Although I agree with the sentiment of what you are saying big soft moose; surely it is better to have the Dewey eyed politicians raising a more general public awareness 1 ( or 2 if 11/11 falls on a separate day) days a year than none at all.
 
Sorry Pete, bit of a knee jerk response from me last night

I have a very strong forces connection and will have some form of contact with ex-serving/veterans every day
 
maybe all the hypocrites should stop buying poppies then, stop being silent at 11am.

While I try very hard not to be hypocritical, I don't buy a poppy. I pop a few quid in the tins but don't feel the need to demonstrate that I follow the herd by wearing a paper and plastic flower. (FTR, I took this from my Grandfather who served in the 2nd war and who never wore a poppy [back then it was known as the Haig Appeal and Haig wasn't exactly a hero...])
 
they are aren't they ?, certainly they are round here - and they were in Wiltshire where I used to live

Not on all of them no, only the bigger ones in my experience
 
i will not be at a service this year and i don't have a poppy, there are not many days that go past when i am not thinking about our service personnel. Some one said about staying silent, there are a lot of people at work today who are not going to be able to pay their respect doesn't mean they are not remembering.
 
Don't wear a poppy and haven't put any money into a tin as we don't subscribe to media hype day, there are many heroes out there from all walks of life that we never hear about, the ones who don't parade with all their medals and don't talk about what they did.
Our money goes monthly to the British legion and The RNLI
 
Bit too much of a generalisation for me BSM

Remembrance Sunday is not just about our armed forces.
 
Have to agree with op. Not enough is done to help people when the leave the forces.
 
Bit too much of a generalisation for me BSM

Remembrance Sunday is not just about our armed forces.

:thinking:

Yes it is - its specifically about rembering all those who gave their lives for their country in armed conflicts past and present (okay so its all commonwealth countries but its fair to say in the |K the focus is mainly on our armed forces)

also where's the generalisation , i'm not saying that we shouldn't remember them on remberance sunday, i'm saying that we should remember them on the other 364 days of the year as well.

In terms of the hypocrisy i'm thinking for example of the various mps and politicians who will be giving speeches about "we will never forget" but then failing to vote against acts that don;t give our troops sufficient equipment, pay, manpower, welfare , pension etc , i'm thinking of the journalists and editors who get all dewy eyed about this one day of the year but then give more prominance to some non entity celbrity than they do to British soldiers being killed in action and or what happens to the wounded etc

I'm not saying that eveyone who says we will never forget is a hypocrite, the hypocrites are the ones who declare louudly and self servingly that they will never forget,, but then don't live those words the other 364 days of the year.
 
out placement, retaining , finding another job,dealing with the various issues that come from being disabled - both psycological and practical.

a degree ofhelp is there , but its nearly all provided by the third sector and funded by donation, and there isnt enough to go round.
 
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The generalisation is that you say people treat the armed forces as "out of site out of mind." The fact that Help for Heroes has been so successful is proof that a lot of people do think and care for our armed forces over and above "poppy day"

Neither do I see it as being hypocritical that politicians stand at the cenotaph but don't give the armed forces all you feel they need, they don't give the NHS all it needs either. It's called balancing the books not hypcrocisy.

We could spend every penny this country gets on the NHS and we would still have sick people and children would still die. The same goes to the MOD, servicemen & women and civilian contractors will still die.

I am not saying everything is rosy, but whilst you/I may see things as black & white the facts are the world is grey, very grey.
 
If we're speaking of hypocrisy, I wonder how hypocrites view the actions of Marine Sergeant "A" in Helmund Province? Bert Evans, the last survivor of the Wormhoudt Massacre, died only a month or so ago. I wonder how he'd have viewed it?
 
Now just to be clear i'm in no way saying remembrance day is a bad thing, far from it - but every year what turns my stomach is the various hypocrites ( in the media, politicians of all hues, celebs and doubtless many ordinary folk too) who get all dewy eyed and emotional about 'the fallen' on 11/11 but treat the armed forces as out of sight out of mind the other 364 days of the year.

its all very well to say " we will always remember" but always doesn't mean 1/365th of the time

How many of these people think about the sacrifices our armed forces (past , present, serving, injured or killed in the line of duty) made/make day in day out on any other day of the year , how many regularly give money to Help for Heroes or the various other similar charities, how many take issue with govt policies that put our armed services at unnecessary risk, or treat them like expendable pawns , or fail to give them proper care/pay/pension/conditions etc

I'm not saying everyone falls in this bracket by any means , but there are far too many in society who may be quoting " for our tomorrow they gave their today" on remembrance sunday but who's true feelings about the armed forces are far better summed up by the poem 'tommy'

"its tommy this, and tommy that, and chuck him out the brute ,
but it's 'ero of his country when the guns begin to shoot"




I'm not an expert, and I may get parts of my facts or history wrong, but here's the deal...

The war of 1914 to 1918 was called The Great War, and was also called 'The war to end all wars' because it was the first major war that involves so many nations and fought in many places, not just in France, but it did happens in Africa and a naval battle around the Falklands. It ended on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918. Because people believed it to be the war to end all wars, so it was important to mark that day as Remembrance Day as the day to remember the fallen who gave their lives to fight in a war to end all wars.

Well, I'm still not clear on the 'end all wars' part. One option is that before the Great War started, a Bosnian Serb assassinate the president of Austria-Hungary, so Austria-Hungary declare war on Bosnian, and then, to cut the story short and make it easier, let's just say, Country A declare war on Country B, Country C is friends with Country B, so C declare war on A, Country D is friends with A, so D declare war on C, E friends with C, declare war on D, F friends with D war on C, and so on, each country declare war on a country that had declare war on another, it went on until Germany declare war on someone, then to help that country, we declare war on Germany. So it could have been a number of wars put together in one war to end all those small wars.

However, I sometimes think that the second option is that it was one big war hoped to end all future wars, specially as they tried to create League of Nations which was hoped to replace wars.

So yes, it is 1/365th of the time, because every year, for a couple of minutes at 11am, on the 11th of November or on a Sunday nearest to the 11th, we are remembering the fallen who gave their lives to fight a war to end all wars, that's why it is called an anniversary. Remembrance Day is an anniversary. Most people seems to think it is a day chosen to remember our soldiers, those who dies in Falklands War, Gulf War, War on Terror, etc., but most missed the point that Remembrance Day is really about the end of the Great War.

However the League of Nations failed, World War II happens, then after that, attempts to create the United Nations, but still wars happens, Korean War, and so on, and on. More fallen to remember, but we can't just stop every day to remember everyone.

Do we stop to remember our birthdays every day, our weddings every day, death of some loved ones every day, all the time? No, we do think about it, we do talk about it a bit, we do remember it a bit at any time and every day, but we always stop and put aside any problems we have for just one day to focus more on the event on an anniversary.

So it helps to put all the fallen from different wars together into Remembrance Day, and stop on that day to think about the fallen, we all put our problems aside, get together, and talk about it, like we all would put aside our problems, get together, and celebrate our friends' birthdays or wedding anniversary or the anniversary of a death in the family.

I am sure that every day, most of us do think about the fallen, I am sure that at any time, whenever the BBC News talked about yet another soldier who got killed, most of us do spare a moment, I do, so most of us do think about the fallen every day and at any time. We all just stop and think big about all of the fallen on Remembrance Day because it is the anniversary of the end of the First World War which soldiers died hoping that they would end all the wars, but didn't.

Remember that Remembrance Day is not to remember the fallen of any wars, because that is just addition part of the package, Remembrance Day is an anniversary of the end of the first war on International scale.

Beside, most other people don't like wars, fighting, and thinks it's all wrong, they don't care about War on Terror, the don't care about Vietnam War, about Gulf War, they don't want wars. They won't think about the fallen every day, but Remembrance Day, being an anniversary, sometimes helps some of them to just put aside their dislike of wars, just to remember the fallen who tried to end all wars.

Well. that's my option.
 
its all very well to say " we will always remember" but always doesn't mean 1/365th of the time"

Ever so Ironic they you only mention this now? not anytime the rest of the year?

Anyway..... for me remeberence sunday has changed.. Its now a stick to hit muslims with or attack politicians or to simply show off how you wear a poppy... more irony in that nobody mentions the germans ... just everyone else they have an axe to grind with..

For me rememberence day..once a year.. is a reminder to take a moment and remember.. we get busy the rest of the year and dont think about it much... so its good to have one day a year to reflect.. one day a year will do.. like crimbo or my borthday or to remember something big in your life.. one day a year..
 
Nothing new here, read the Ballard of Tommy Atkins.

The public always remember the forces when they are off fighting (as long as it's Johnny foreigner, and not in NI!), but in what they perceive as peacetime (only happened once, in the 1960's since the end of WW2) they ignore them. It's a fact of life, made worse by the reductions in forces numbers, which means many people know no one who is in, or has been in the forces.

I was brought up in a Forces environment, my Great Grandfather was killed in WW1, my Grandfather was a Royal Marine before, during and after WW2. My father was in the RAF for 30 years. I work with a team of people who are around 30 years old, some of whom don't buy a poppy and give no thought at all to those who paid the ultimate sacrifice. However, those who have died, did so on the basis that they were defending the freedom to care more about Big Strictly up the Jungle hasn't got any talent.

I watched the RBL Festival of Remembrance last night, and in spite of having been a rough tough Policeman for most of my adult life, I was move to tears when the little girl who thought her father was away at sea, ran to hug him when she was told he was there. Aged 6, I remember the feeling she must have had when my dad arrived unannounced back from active service. That feeling is worth much more than any public recollection.
 
I know is simplistic, but having a remembrance day doesn't by definition exclude remembering on the other 364 days of the year.
 
Rememberance day is too remember all servicemen of all countries, men and women who have laid down their lives for their country.Whether that be Anzac troops, German troops or whomever.

Some people only do that once a year, some remember on a more regular basis, some don`t give a damn. Just do your own thing Pete.
 
How many other posts have you started in the last year about remembering the sacrifices made by service men and women of WW1?

Having a friend in the services on active duty helps me to consider them daily.


However the Political duplicity is like vomit in my mouth - the DWP using their Hit Man ATOS, is actively attacking ex service personnel who have disabilities obtained during active service and arbitrarily taking away their benefits and imposing sanctions on them....THIS IS FACT and the political glitterati gaining kudos from dressing up and wearing a poppy and looking all sombre on the TV........This and only this is were your hypocrisy comment should be directed.
 
Ever so Ironic they you only mention this now? not anytime the rest of the year?

Sorry Pete, but from this thread, the above quote seems a very reasonable observation IMHO. :lol:
 
When do we stop wearing poppies? I assume from the 12th onwards makes sense.
 
Ever so Ironic they you only mention this now? not anytime the rest of the year?

Not really, because the hypocrisy is happening at this time of year - I have however mentioned the need to support our troops at various other times throughout the year,

we get busy the rest of the year and dont think about it much... .. one day a year will do.. ..

and that sums up the point I was making, is it really acceptable to not think about our service men and women for the rest of the year because "we're busy" or to think that one day a year will do. Certainly i'm not saying that rememberance day is a bad thing per se - but it shouldn't be the only time , and it certainly shouldnt be a time for various politician etc to make promises they have no intention of keeping

also i'd note that the core point was about the hypocrisy of those who say things they don't mean on this day in order to self servingly impress their electorate, readers or whatever - it wasnt aimed at people on this forum
 
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And this is why I don't involve myself with the Remembrance Day rubbish. It aggravates me terribly hearing people, who would otherwise care less, go on about how "grateful" they are for our military efforts on one day out of the year. They're completely ignorant of historical and current military affairs and go on living out their days like it's their God-given right to do so. Evil exists in this world and brave men and women fought hard for us to be where we are now. Come remembrance day all the delinquents rise up to show how much they 'know' and how much they 'care'. Of course they'll always 'remember' - remember what exactly? Do they even f-ing know? Ridiculous.

Also, I bleeding hate how the Church uses Remembrance Day as some kind of joy-ride - somehow making the whole event about God and Christianity, when it isn't about that at all. War is a dreadful thing. We should remember so that we can learn from our mistakes and forget about making those same mistakes again!!
 
and that sums up the point I was making, is it really acceptable to not think about our service men and women for the rest of the year because "we're busy"

I dont much think about nurses or firemen either ...if soemhting happens then i think about it.. i dont blank them out... but i also dont have a minutes silence.. wear a poppy or go over the top every day... your being a bit black and white about this.. nobody can blank the army out all year.. its just that once a year we make a big thing out of it.. theres no way people are going to behave like that the rest of the year.. thats just daft
 
I'm not suggesting people have a minutes silence every day - that'd just be silly. What i was suggesting was that people (especially those in position of power and influence) should keep the promises they made yesterday ... for example if the PM will "never forget the sacrafices these brave men made for their country" he might like to remember that next time he makes a decision that negatively effects those currently serving , if a newspaper editor really meant that he would never forget , maybe he should run a british squadie being KIA/MIA/WIA as page one news rather than burying it on page 17 but giving more prominence to a celibities love life, or who's been voted off 'strictly' etc
 
I'm not suggesting people have a minutes silence every day - that'd just be silly. What i was suggesting was that people (especially those in position of power and influence) should keep the promises they made yesterday ... for example if the PM will "never forget the sacrafices these brave men made for their country" he might like to remember that next time he makes a decision that negatively effects those currently serving , if a newspaper editor really meant that he would never forget , maybe he should run a british squadie being KIA/MIA/WIA as page one news rather than burying it on page 17 but giving more prominence to a celibities love life, or who's been voted off 'strictly' etc


While I agree with you 100%, the news paper example is unfortunately what sells the paper (I know there could be a whole debate about papers making the news).
 
Considering the OP felt we should remember our armed forces all year and not just Remembrance Sunday, he was very quick to change his avatar after Monday.
 
out placement, retaining , finding another job.

That can be applied to many others too though.
No one is offering to help the 56 year old friend of ours who has worked at the same Portsmouth shipyard for 40 years, and now finds himself imminently jobless with little chance of re-employment.
No, he didn't serve. But he just as, if not more, traumatised than a serviceman who possibly served for only 10pc of that time.
I do donate to forces charities. I don't wear a poppy. And I don't feel the need to give them a specific moment of my time 365 days a year.
 
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