Reducing DUI limit in Scotland

I was just listening to this on the radio... good thing if you ask me, i hate drink driving like most but i wouldn't even have one if i knew i had to get in a car

Quite a few years ago now back in my home town a young girl got killed late xmas eve night due to a young lad who was drunk:(

Don't get me wrong it's bad enough anytime but that tragedy ruined xmas for the family forever
 
That has got to be a good thing, I can't imagine anyone would argue against that.
Personally, if I'm driving I won't have any alcohol at all and would like to see the legal alcohol limit for driving should be zero.
 
PaulF said:
That has got to be a good thing, I can't imagine anyone would argue against that.
Personally, if I'm driving I won't have any alcohol at all and would like to see the legal alcohol limit for driving should be zero.
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Trust me in this thread there is bound to be someone against it
 
Cg_Girl said:
Trust me in this thread there is bound to be someone against it
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Me! Alcohol can occur naturally in the body so you need to have something above zero - I don't see anything wrong with the current way. When I last looked the chance of an accident was roughly the same at the limit as it was with zero. Maybe you bring it down to 1 pint but not zero.

Surely the best way is to do away with a fine and ban and just put a minimum 3 year jail term on it, no ifs or buts! If people are stupid to go above the limit then they pay the price and it would not take long for that to become not worth the risk.

The biggest issue for me is around what happens the next morning - Like most I am pretty sensible, if I know I need to be up the next morning then I won't stay up drinking till 2am as I know I will still be over at 8am - however, if you drink a bottle of wine throughout the night or go to the pub and have 6 or 7 pints, its not easy to determine when you would be at zero. Now I know that by 6pm the next day I probably would be safe, but what about 4pm, 2pm, 11am??? A zero level would mean that even when sober and just with a minisucle trace you would be done!
 
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The BBC quote from Kenny MacAskill (Justice Minister) says "Asked why the government didn't simply apply a zero tolerance approach, Mr MacAskill said: "There are reasons why individuals may have alcohol in their system. It is also quite clear at the 50 (mg) limit, that is when impairment begins to kick in." 50 is also the figure widely used across Europe, so it can be seen to be workable and justified. I believe it is also a requirement in France to carry a breathalyser in the car, so maybe we better all get down to Halfords and get one before they sell out of them!
 
Bring it down to one pint?

Simon, it's already at about one pint! 80mg is about 2.25 units of normal strength beer, so just over a pint.

As for your alcohol occurs in the body normally. Yes, it might, but not in your blood stream. Thats why in training to use the electronic breath tests, everyone I know blew a big fat ZERO! Thats also why in some Countries the limit is Zero, and so far no one has ever managed to use a defence of 'it wasn't me, it was my body".

So Zero is very easy to achieve, and eminently sensible.

But what your answer does show quite clearly is that people have no idea what constitutes the "limit". It differs from person to person, due to size, metabolism, health and what you have eaten. The reality is that not drinking at all, and therefore blowing zero is the only guarantee.

Peter

Yes, it's a requirement in France, but the device in question is the old crystal tube and a bag. It's in as reliable as a Politicians promise. I'd suggest that people comply with Frances rules, but don't bother with them in the UK, they are a waste of money and give no real clue at all!
 
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I don't drink. I personally think the way drink drivers are dealt with is wrong. Don't ban them from driving, ban them from drinking - its the drinking creating the issue with the driving, not their sober driving. How you enforce that god knows. I agree to bring the limit down to a low threshold. It cannot do any harm but I agree a lot of DUI's and accidents related to DUI are actually a lot over the current limit, but it sends a good message and removes the should I/should I not have a second drink and drive, or even should I/should I not drink at all before driving.
 
The new limit in Scotland will be 50mg of alcohol in 100ml of blood.

Many people throughout the UK have been, for some years, subject to the limits set by the Transport & Works Act which permits a maximum of 29mg of alcohol in 200ml of blood.
 
The limits and offence in the Transport and works act only applies to railways/trams and people in safety critical roles. It doesn't apply outside of that.
There is other legislation on Shipping and Aircraft (and hovercraft too, which the CPS class as shipping under that act).

But to say that those acts apply to many people, is a tad misleading.
 
i think most dd cases you hear about in the news have been people who are way over the existing limit as there is a hardcore of drinkers who would ignore the dd limit however low - it will likely kill off the country pub trade as people are too lazy to cycle or walk to many country pubs so would probably just stay at home and drink
 
boliston said:
i think most dd cases you hear about in the news have been people who are way over the existing limit as there is a hardcore of drinkers who would ignore the dd limit however low - it will likely kill off the country pub trade as people are too lazy to cycle or walk to many country pubs so would probably just stay at home and drink
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People who go to country pubs will probably have more than 1 drink and may well be over the limit. They can have a soft drink, a pub can serve other things other than alcohol.
 
Peter B said:
I believe it is also a requirement in France to carry a breathalyser in the car, so maybe we better all get down to Halfords and get one before they sell out of them!
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Yep, one of the more ridiculous laws France has passed - and widely thought to be a result of government corruption. For one thing, the entire country ran out of these breathalisers so they had to allow a grace period. Then the manufacturers made a h-u-g-e amount of money.

Also, it's a requirement to carry one. So you go to your car and think "hmm am I safe to drive....let me check". And hey presto, it's no longer legal to drive your car because you don't have a breathaliser in it.

I have a couple in the boot but I know I'll never use them.

The only argument I can see against the Scottish idea is that it puts the limit right around where you can be accidentally over. While it's about 1.3 pints you know "1 is OK, 2 is bad". But if it's pretty much 1 pint it becomes "hmm 1 pint and 20 mins wait?" or "I guess a 3.6% beer might be alright but not a 3.8". But I can't get too bothered about it - a limit as close as practically possible to zero would suit me fine.
 
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Bernie174 said:
The limits and offence in the Transport and works act only applies to railways/trams and people in safety critical roles. It doesn't apply outside of that.
There is other legislation on Shipping and Aircraft (and hovercraft too, which the CPS class as shipping under that act).

But to say that those acts apply to many people, is a tad misleading.
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Bernie174 said:
The limits and offence in the Transport and works act only applies to railways/trams and people in safety critical roles. It doesn't apply outside of that.
There is other legislation on Shipping and Aircraft (and hovercraft too, which the CPS class as shipping under that act).

But to say that those acts apply to many people, is a tad misleading.
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There are lots of people in what is termed safety critical roles in these industries. It goes well beyond frontline staff. If your duties involve any work that could affect safety in short or long term then your job will be classed as safety critical (you will be informed of that so as to not be in any doubt). Similarly, much maintenance/renewal and new projects works are done by external contractors. These people are also subject to the T&W legislation.
 
Will the new limit require new handheld alcometers or existing ones to be recalibrated ? That sounds like a tall order if it is to be achieved by Xmas.
 
The aviation industry is another that has legislation that imposes strict alcohol limits.

Aviation
The Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003 sets out a prescribed alcohol limit for people
involved in aviation activities including flight crew, cabin crew and air traffic controllers
(ATCOs). The limit is 20mg of alcohol / 100ml blood except for licensed aircraft engineers
for whom the limit is 80mg/100ml (the same as the current drink driving limit in England
and Wales). The Act authorises the police to test flight crew, cabin crew and ground crew
after accidents or incident s or with due cause.

I am no longer up to speed with this sort of legislation. Are bus drivers etc. not subject to stricter limits that car drivers.
 
The aviation industry is another that has legislation that imposes strict alcohol limits.

Aviation
The Railways and Transport Safety Act 2003 sets out a prescribed alcohol limit for people
involved in aviation activities including flight crew, cabin crew and air traffic controllers
(ATCOs). The limit is 20mg of alcohol / 100ml blood except for licensed aircraft engineers
for whom the limit is 80mg/100ml (the same as the current drink driving limit in England
and Wales). The Act authorises the police to test flight crew, cabin crew and ground crew
after accidents or incident s or with due cause.
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No kidding? What was it I said in post 16?

"There is other legislation on Shipping and Aircraft (and hovercraft too, which the CPS class as shipping under that act)."

Anyway, I'm sorry, but you've misunderstood the Transport and works. It creates an offence which relates to railways/trams and other guided transport systems only. It does not apply to anything else.

I am no longer up to speed with this sort of legislation. Are bus drivers etc. not subject to stricter limits that car drivers
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No, bus drivers are not subject to different limits, they are driving a motor vehicle and therefore come under the RTA's.

As far as I can recall, there is no other legislation on any other groups of people than some in aviation, shipping and railways.

So, you doctor can be as nissed as a pwet and operate on you, same with your dentist. Bankers can (and possibly are if some American films are to be believed) bombed out of their skull on coke while messing about with your hard earned. Your local fire service can, if not driving turn up at your fire while drunk as a lord. None of these commit a criminal offence in respect of the drink.
 
I like a drink.
But I have a zero tolerance for getting behind the wheel when you've been drinking.
Be a designated driver...soft drinks only.
If you can't do that then stay home.
It's an easy choice.
 
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As said earlier it cannot be zero as there are some naturly occurring alcohols in the body.

Would a lot of snogging with a drunk girl be enough to raise a reading above 0.

Etc
 
Interesting comment from the IAM spokesman from the BBC Scotland website:

17:29: 'No road safety boost'

The Institute of Advanced Motorists has criticised Scottish government plans to lower the drink-drive limit.


Spokesman George Goldie said: "I don't think it's going to have an impact on road safety because in the vast majority of accidents where someone is killed or injured involving alcohol, the driver is way way over the limit, not just fractionally over the limit.


"I think this will have a much bigger impact on the people who are trying to be law-abiding and who perhaps have a drink in the evening and are caught the following morning."
 
neil_g said:
As said earlier it cannot be zero as there are some naturly occurring alcohols in the body.

Would a lot of snogging with a drunk girl be enough to raise a reading above 0.

Etc
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No. It wouldn't.
There's never been a successful defence using the "it's not my fault" excuse....nor the medication route, as far as I know.
 
neil_g said:
As said earlier it cannot be zero as there are some naturly occurring alcohols in the body.
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I know that. What I meant is that my limit is zero. i.e. no drinks at all. None of this one pint or one and a half pints is o.k. because you don't know what is o.k.

Any test would have to compensate for natural levels.


Steve.
 
Bernie174 said:
"There is other legislation on Shipping and Aircraft (and hovercraft too, which the CPS class as shipping under that act)."
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Yes. We had a hovercraft pilot down here drunk on duty. He was charged and sentenced to eight months in prison.

He had 96 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of his breath. The legal drink-drive limit is 35.


Steve
 
There is a very simple solution. The cars should contain mandatory technology (breathalisers) that will prevent starting the engine if there is too much alcohol. It is simple and effective, but some politician needs to have the guts.

I am not very happy with the number of drunk drivers at Friday / Saturday nights in Scotland. It doesn't matter if you are a lone pensioner or a an old couple or a f*****g chav - I don't want to see you swerving around at 40mph regardless of speed limit and road conditions.
 
daugirdas said:
There is a very simple solution. The cars should contain mandatory technology (breathalisers) that will prevent starting the engine if there is too much alcohol. It is simple and effective, but some politician needs to have the guts.

I am not very happy with the number of drunk drivers at Friday / Saturday nights in Scotland. It doesn't matter if you are a lone pensioner or a an old couple or a f*****g chav - I don't want to see you swerving around at 40mph regardless of speed limit and road conditions.
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How do u ensure this is in every car?

Who pays for it to go in my car?

What stops my wife doing the test and me driving after 8 pints?
 
cambsno said:
How do u ensure this is in every car?
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Make it an MOT requirement?

cambsno said:
Who pays for it to go in my car?
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You obviously. Who pays for portable test kits in France? I thought so...

It's a relatively small price to pay for our safety. You have to buy fuel, tyres, tax, insurance, service the car. It won't add that much you couldn't save by staying out of the drinking den for a few weekends :p

cambsno said:
What stops my wife doing the test and me driving after 8 pints?
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The technology need not be that rudimentary for a start. For example it is very easy and cheap to say if somebody got out of the seat and back in. It could get a lot more clever than that.
 
daugirdas said:
Make it an MOT requirement?



You obviously. Who pays for portable test kits in France? I thought so...

It's a relatively small price to pay for our safety. You have to buy fuel, tyres, tax, insurance, service the car. It won't add that much you couldn't save by staying out of the drinking den for a few weekends :p



The technology need not be that rudimentary for a start. For example it is very easy and cheap to say if somebody got out of the seat and back in. It could get a lot more clever than that.
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Talk about sledgehammer to crack a nut. Very few people drink drive so why have the majority penalised in this way.

How many vehicles are in the UK, imagine the workload to fit this. Easy to bypass anyway, wife leans over or blows into a balloon and then release ballon over the thing! Would also be easy to find someone to bypass it and reconnect for next mot. So many loopholes for something that is not needed. What about those that don't drink, what do they need to give up to afford it!

The very idea is a total joke which may make some people feel better but would achieve little. Simply increasing the punishment to a 3 years jail term (ie you serve 3 years) would stop all but the very stupid? Doesn't affect the innocent and punishes those that break the law.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Why would they need to be re calibrated?
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According to the Halfords website, this one at least is programmed with the current limit. Don't know about others. http://www.halfords.com/car-seats-t...thalysers/alcosense-elite-pocket-breathalyser

AlcoSense Elite Pocket Breathalyser Extra Info
  • Shows level of intoxication in either micro-grams per litre of blood or % BAC
  • Shows readings in increments of 0.01
  • It will alert you when you are near or over the drink drive limit
  • Automatically performs a sensor clean after every time it is used
  • Size: 95mm (height) x 34mm (width) x 25mm (depth)
 
As said earlier it cannot be zero as there are some naturly occurring alcohols in the body.
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Rubbish. There are a number of countries where the drink drive limit is Zero. They seem to manage perfectly well. I've blown zero both in training and when breath tested after accidents.


Would a lot of snogging with a drunk girl be enough to raise a reading above 0.
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No of course you wouldn't. Nor, in spite of rumour to the contrary will using mouthwash. Unless you drink a big bottle in which case you are guilty anyway.

Why would they need to be re calibrated?
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There are 2 types of breath test machine. One is a sceening device, depending on how old these are, they may need programing. The originals for example were simply red amber green readouts based on the current prescribed limit. The newer ones have show a number related to the amount of alcohol in your breath, so they would not need re calibrating.

The evidential ones, ie what you blow into at the Police Station again, show the amount of alcohol in your breath, they don't need re programing.

According to the Halfords website, this one at least is programmed with the current limit. Don't know about others. http://www.halfords.com/car-seats-t...thalysers/alcosense-elite-pocket-breathalyser

AlcoSense Elite Pocket Breathalyser Extra Info
Shows level of intoxication in either micro-grams per litre of blood or % BAC
Shows readings in increments of 0.01
It will alert you when you are near or over the drink drive limit
Automatically performs a sensor clean after every time it is used
Size: 95mm (height) x 34mm (width) x 25mm (depth)
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Are only useful as a clue, they do not guarantee accuracy for a number of reasons. 1. They need recalibrating every so often. 2. They do not tell you if your blood alcohol concentration is going up, that continues to rise after you finish drinking. They are useful only as a clue, but the only safe guaranteed way is not to drink at all if driving.
 
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