Recommend me Reverse ND grad and square ND

[LongLensPhotography]

I am looking to extend my 100mm square filters collection for landscape work. Currently I have a set of Lee ND 0.6 hard ND Grad, and 0.6 + 0.9 soft ND grad resin filters. There is a screw in Hoya 9 stop as well.

However I do get problems with my current set up. I get serious vignetting issues if I try to stack screw in ND400 or CPL and Lee holder on both 24-70 @ 24-28mm and 12-24 at wider settings. Most of my exposures are taken around the sunset so horizons are usually the brightest bit, sometimes very hard to control with the existing set. There is also a bit of flare and ghosts induced by un-coated Lee resin filters when shooting into the light.

I am looking to get a reverse ND grad to solve the 'hot' horizons issue. What manufacturer should I look at? The budget is tight so I really can't afford to buy crap twice. It needs to be good. Maybe glass and coated? What brand? Hard or soft? 0.6 or 0.9?

I'd also want a ND 3-4 stop filter to slow down sunset exposures a bit. It has to be good to minimise ghosts and retain good contrast. It would be stacked with grads. Big stopper would be a bit of an overkill at 2-3min exposures (and there is my Hoya for that). 15-30s exposures is what I am looking for.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Anyone? I am sure some landscape togs check this section.

 

[ryank]

I would also like to know!

 

[HoppyUK]

Singh-Ray? http://www.singh-ray.com/reversegrads.html You'll love the prices Never used them myself though. I believe they are also uncoated resin too.

And no matter what filter you use, if you have a bright light source in the picture like the sun then you will always get some flare and ghosting which gets really bad with multiple filters. Coating helps, but not massively. The trick is to avoid creating flare/ghosting in the first place, as best you can.

Have you tried using two grads, one upsidedown (ie reversed) and overlapping in the middle? TBH, from an image quality point of view, I think by far the best way of sorting out your particular problems is HDR technique.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Singh-Ray? http://www.singh-ray.com/reversegrads.html You'll love the prices Never used them myself though. I believe they are also uncoated resin too.

And no matter what filter you use, if you have a bright light source in the picture like the sun then you will always get some flare and ghosting which gets really bad with multiple filters. Coating helps, but not massively. The trick is to avoid creating flare/ghosting in the first place, as best you can.

Have you tried using two grads, one upsidedown (ie reversed) and overlapping in the middle? TBH, from an image quality point of view, I think by far the best way of sorting out your particular problems is HDR technique.

That is quite a price for a strip of resin! This makes Lee look cheap. Is there anything else sensible and available over here?

Thank but I must say HDR is not going to help much. It tackles the problem the wrong way and gives wrong results. Photo stacking would sound like a better plan, but is very time consuming and not always possible in fast changing conditions (sunset, low light, cloud movement, etc). I'd really like to keep it clean and simple, 1 or 2 shots max only in special cases.

Anything about 'normal' ND filters?

 

[HoppyUK]

That is quite a price for a strip of resin! This makes Lee look cheap. Is there anything else sensible and available over here?

Thank but I must say HDR is not going to help much. It tackles the problem the wrong way and gives wrong results. Photo stacking would sound like a better plan, but is very time consuming and not always possible in fast changing conditions (sunset, low light, cloud movement, etc). I'd really like to keep it clean and simple, 1 or 2 shots max only in special cases.

Anything about 'normal' ND filters?

How is HDR not going to help, and what is photo stacking? Using grads is perhaps a more enjoyable and somehow purer process, but HDR would sort the problem more effectively. You'd only need one extra exposure of a couple of stops less for the bright strip of sky which a reverse grad addresses. In terms of exposure control, HDR beats any combination of grads everytime, though it does have issues where movement is invloved.

Here's an idea that would work for long exposures in the ten secs plus range. A thin strip of black card held in front of the lens along the extra bright part of the sky. Position it before you start the exposure, then whip it off after a few seconds and there's your reverse grad effect. In fact, you could do the whole grad thing that way - if you're good at juggling (and mental arithmetic) LOL It's just like dodging and burning in the darkroom.

There are lots of three-stop solid NDs about. Hoya Pro-1 is good quality multi-coated at a reasonable price. I have a Tiffen HT four-stops, again high quality and very close to neutral. They're expensive but I picked mine up cheap off Amazon. I wouldn't use a square dark ND unless it's got a light-sealing gasket like the Lee Big Stopper.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

How is HDR not going to help, and what is photo stacking? Using grads is perhaps a more enjoyable and somehow purer process, but HDR would sort the problem more effectively. You'd only need one extra exposure of a couple of stops less for the bright strip of sky which a reverse grad addresses. In terms of exposure control, HDR beats any combination of grads everytime, though it does have issues where movement is invloved.

HDR produces images that look wrong. Please prove me otherwise. I've seen 1000s of HDRs and didn't like a single one (with exception of maybe interior architecture). I am sure many - not all - people will agree with me on this and I am definitely not going there.

Here's an idea that would work for long exposures in the ten secs plus range. A thin strip of black card held in front of the lens along the extra bright part of the sky. Position it before you start the exposure, then whip it off after a few seconds and there's your reverse grad effect. In fact, you could do the whole grad thing that way - if you're good at juggling (and mental arithmetic) LOL It's just like dodging and burning in the darkroom.

It is definitely doable. I have replicated simple grads in this way before buying Lee with somewhat positive results, although the outcome can be literally very much hit and miss, particularly where precision is needed.

There are lots of three-stop solid NDs about. Hoya Pro-1 is good quality multi-coated at a reasonable price. I have a Tiffen HT four-stops, again high quality and very close to neutral. They're expensive but I picked mine up cheap off Amazon. I wouldn't use a square dark ND unless it's got a light-sealing gasket like the Lee Big Stopper.

That confirms my fears. I can use screw ins but that means I am losing the wider setting of my lenses. I guess I need to investigate the seals.

 

[HoppyUK]

If you want to try the strip of black card idea, bear in mind that the result will be substantially affected by the f/number and focal length, and also the distance it is held in front of the lens. But you should be able to get any effect you want with that, with great precision and control with a bit of practise sorting out those variables.

Just thinking about it for a mo, you could build a simple rig with coathangers or something to slot into the Lee holder and secure the card in exactly the right position and distance. Stick it on with those little magnetic patches from Hobbycraft. A bit crude and cumbersome, but it would work perfectly and with zero IQ impact.

PS the problem with HDR is the software and PPing technique, but I understand if you don't want to go there.