Recommend Me A Flash Diffuser Please!

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snoop69

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Paul
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Ive been looking at puchasing a flash diffuser for my 580ex mkI but the options
are endless.

Would I be correct in thinking that one of those round or square style boxes would
be suitable for general indoor use for places like pubs & halls?

Ive looked at this for expample......................

http://www.systeminsight.co.uk/Event_Photography_Lightsphere_Details_1.htm

or would something like a small softbox be more suitable?

Thanks in advance.
 
That's what I use and it's deffo THEE best item I've bought that has improved my flash photography.

Not cheap though!
 
I've tried almost all diffusers and the best one by a mile is the Demb Flip-it pro 'big'.
 
When I start using off camera flash with wireless cheap kits my photography start to improve a lot, I'm not a bit follower of those expensive Tupperware, If I was you I would buy wireless kit and a speedlite softbox
 
make yourself one of these jobbies, and save some cash. cost me £2.00 total and do a great job
 
Either StoFen Ombi-Bounce or the Lambency diffusers that flash in the pan sells :)
 
karfeef said:
make yourself one of these jobbies, and save some cash. cost me £2.00 total and do a great job
Click to expand...

The results from that look quite impressive, it definitely deserves a blue peter badge :D
 
admirable said:
That's what I use and it's deffo THEE best item I've bought that has improved my flash photography.

Not cheap though!
Click to expand...

Says 'discontinued' but there are a few on Ebay - thanks for the vote.

Scotty B said:
I've tried almost all diffusers and the best one by a mile is the Demb Flip-it pro 'big'.
Click to expand...

Looks impressive & is on me 'maybe' list.

Camaradas said:
If I was you I would buy wireless kit and a speedlite softbox
Click to expand...

I have wireless & softboxes but wanted something on camera to walk around with.

Bendihossan said:
Either StoFen Ombi-Bounce or the Lambency diffusers that flash in the pan sells :)
Click to expand...

Will have a looky.
 
First of all, you should try the pull-out Catchlight Panel built in to your flash. They work really well if you have a ceiling to bounce off.

This is the diffuser I like best - it does everything, and does it all very well, too. It is more effective, more versatile and more controllable than anything else out there. Lumiquest Quik Bounce £40. http://www.lumiquest.com/products/quik-bounce.htm
 
bottle of carex handwash, empty, top chopped off. Get the 50% extra free bottle for a bigger flashgun. cost £1 - or thereabouts, and nice cleans hands for free.
 
I like the Lambency, if you don't mind looking a dick, if you want to look a bigger dick, you could go for the milk bottle mod. Doesn't replace proper stands and light boxes, but useful for when you need mobility.

Apologies to any Richards out there...;)
 
When you have low-white ceilings for bounce flash:
You want:
a) enough fill to go forwards to onto the face to fill shadows
b) a forward facing light to reflect into the eyes and provide catch lights
c) an upward facing light to reflect downwards as a bigger (and hence softer) light source as a main light

The ideal solution for the above situation (imo) is the lumiquest 80/20 which is less than £20 and folds flat to fit in your pocket. It lets 80% of the light go upwards as a bounced flash main light and 20% gets reflected forwards for fill and catch light.

Since you have a 580, then you can get almost as good results by lifting your catchlight card and deploying your spring loaded wide angle screen that comes up with it.


When you do NOT have a low-white ceiling to bounce:

This will always be a difficult situation if you want the flash to be main light. At least can put on a sto-fen diffuser (under £10 I think and softens a little). But you can also go to Lumiquest and buy a max-pro kit which allows the insertion of a white, silver or gold reflector into the 80/20. It is not as good as a ceiling, but a little better than direct flash.

My preferred option with speedlites as main lights, is to get it off camera and shoot it through a tri-grip diffuser - of course this is only any good if you have an assistant, but if you get the distances right it is as good as a softbox and totally portable and seriously fast to set up.

Steve
 
stevedunster said:
When you have low-white ceilings for bounce flash:
You want:
a) enough fill to go forwards to onto the face to fill shadows
b) a forward facing light to reflect into the eyes and provide catch lights
c) an upward facing light to reflect downwards as a bigger (and hence softer) light source as a main light

The ideal solution for the above situation (imo) is the lumiquest 80/20 which is less than £20 and folds flat to fit in your pocket. It lets 80% of the light go upwards as a bounced flash main light and 20% gets reflected forwards for fill and catch light.
Click to expand...

Or use the Lumiquest Quik Bounce I mentioned above, which does the same thing but also several other things too.

Since you have a 580, then you can get almost as good results by lifting your catchlight card and deploying your spring loaded wide angle screen that comes up with it.
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Yes. Easiest, and often as good as anything else.


When you do NOT have a low-white ceiling to bounce:

This will always be a difficult situation if you want the flash to be main light. At least can put on a sto-fen diffuser (under £10 I think and softens a little). But you can also go to Lumiquest and buy a max-pro kit which allows the insertion of a white, silver or gold reflector into the 80/20. It is not as good as a ceiling, but a little better than direct flash.

My preferred option with speedlites as main lights, is to get it off camera and shoot it through a tri-grip diffuser - of course this is only any good if you have an assistant, but if you get the distances right it is as good as a softbox and totally portable and seriously fast to set up.

Steve
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Without a ceiling, a Stofen does absolutely nothing. With a ceiling, it gives a similar effect to the catchlight card.
 
HoppyUK said:
Without a ceiling, a Stofen does absolutely nothing. With a ceiling, it gives a similar effect to the catchlight card.
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That's the most credible description of the stofen's performance I've read. I could never figure how it was supposed to soften because it was so small, but for close up stuff maybe it did.

However, as you say, when I run with a 430 (like a small 580 without the catchlight card) I keep my stofen on when bouncing without an 80/20, so I get some catch lights.

Thanks
 
www.diffuseit.co.uk

Its actually a vari angle bounce card, rather than a diffuser, but its very capable, adjustable and easy to fold all the way back when not needed.
 
Thanks very much for the advice guys, much appreciated.

Im going to get my daughter to make me one but I have ordered one of these as the price seemed fair.
 
Bendihossan said:
Either StoFen Ombi-Bounce or the Lambency diffusers that flash in the pan sells :)
Click to expand...

Whats the difference with a StoFen and these cheaper versions that are out & about.... Just curious as to me they look the same, has it something to do with the thickness, the "little bobbles" on them??
 
Trig's said:
Whats the difference with a StoFen and these cheaper versions that are out & about.... Just curious as to me they look the same, has it something to do with the thickness, the "little bobbles" on them??
Click to expand...

You're right, most of these things are the same, or at most very similar. They tend to do much less softening of the light by themselves but redirect the light to a larger surface, eg a ceiling, that is much bigger, and that is what does the softening. Big light area equals softer shadows. In this case, the ceiling effectively becomes the light source (plus walls etc with a Stofen).

If you use these diffusers outdoors, ie with no ceiling or other bounce surface to make the light bigger, they do nothing - other than waste power by squirting light into nowhere.

The bobbles are just decoration :)
 
HoppyUK said:
You're right, most of these things are the same, or at most very similar. They tend to do much less softening of the light by themselves but redirect the light to a larger surface, eg a ceiling, that is much bigger, and that is what does the softening. Big light area equals softer shadows. In this case, the ceiling effectively becomes the light source (plus walls etc with a Stofen).

If you use these diffusers outdoors, ie with no ceiling or other bounce surface to make the light bigger, they do nothing - other than waste power by squirting light into nowhere.

The bobbles are just decoration :)
Click to expand...

Nice description...

Out of interest, do you think the Stofens were designed to work with the head in bounce position or direct flash position.

I'm guessing from your description it would be better in bounce position where most of it goes to the ceiling, but a little goes forward.
 
I assume that the one that I got off ebay for £2.99 isn't a proper StoFen diffuser then... May also be why the pictures with flash+diffuser dont look much different with it on or off...
 
stevedunster said:
Nice description...

Out of interest, do you think the Stofens were designed to work with the head in bounce position or direct flash position.

I'm guessing from your description it would be better in bounce position where most of it goes to the ceiling, but a little goes forward.
Click to expand...

They're designed to work with the strobe head angled upwards unless you're deliberately wanting to aim a portion of the light downwards.
 
Trig's said:
I assume that the one that I got off ebay for £2.99 isn't a proper StoFen diffuser then... May also be why the pictures with flash+diffuser dont look much different with it on or off...
Click to expand...

You don't need to have a 'genuine' Sto-Fen to get the benefits of one. How are you using it and what are your surroundings at the time? They're designed to direct a lot of the light off the surfaces around your strobe. If you don't have much in the way of light reflective surfaces around then neither a genuine Sto-Fen nor a copy is going to have any effect other than to weaken the strength of your flash.
 
DigitalRelish said:
You don't need to have a 'genuine' Sto-Fen to get the benefits of one. How are you using it and what are your surroundings at the time? They're designed to direct a lot of the light off the surfaces around your strobe. If you don't have much in the way of light reflective surfaces around then neither a genuine Sto-Fen nor a copy is going to have any effect other than to weaken the strength of your flash.
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Ahhh that would explain it a lot then... I was selling some gear on ebay & used the diffuser but they didn't come out any different - prob as the head wasn't angled to hit off from the ceiling etc..

Many thanks for that.. Makes my £2.99 purchase worth it :lol:
 
stevedunster said:
That's the most credible description of the stofen's performance I've read. I could never figure how it was supposed to soften because it was so small, but for close up stuff maybe it did.
Click to expand...

It doesn't soften, it diffuses. It takes that beam of light blasting out of your flash and spreads it out in all directions (ok, not *ALL* but you get my point). It's the reflected light back from the surroundings that gives the appearance of softness. - I always use the stofen type diffusers on my speedlights when used with softboxes or umbrellas because of the way they work. It spreads the light out around more inside them and helps to project it out to your subject a little more evenly.

At the end of the day, all these diffusers are still just a small light source. It's how that light gets bounced of larger objects (walls, reflectors, etc) turning them into a large light source that causes the softness.

But, I will back you on those 80-20 bouncers (or the newer Promax version of it with the inserts and softboxesque cover). Got mine about 5 or 6 years ago and wouldn't go anywhere without in in my bag - just in case. :)
 
Yes, Stofen recommend 45 degrees and while it doesn't make a huge amount of difference (given that it squirts light all around) that's not a bad default position. Certainly not straight ahead though.

I use it at 45 degrees if the subject is a little distance away, as that puts the pool of light on the ceiling in the best place. If I'm close, then straight up for the same reason.

I actually don't use a Stofen much. I find the pull-out bounce-card on my 580EX works just as well most of the time, and is always to hand obviously. If I'm going out specifically to shoot people with flash, I'll take a Lumiquest Quik Bounce which not only works better, but does a lot of other things too - such as softened straight flash when there's no ceiling or a too high ceiling, vertical or horizontal. Doesn't waste any light either. I think it's really good - folds up flat too :) http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-lumiquest-quik-bounce/p1031217

Edit: 80/20 and Promax are similar and very good, but less versatile.
 
Ahh that looks neat. Like a good 80-20 alternative, with its "sunroof" n' all ;)

The other alternative, one that I like to use as often as possible, is to smooth talk an assistant into following you around all day carrying a boom that has an SB-900 and 24" softbox on the end of it. Then the only thing you need to worry about is if the flash on the boom can see the CLS signal from your hot-shoed commander. ;)
 
Thank you John, I'm beginning see the stofen mechanism now...and thank you Richard, Stofen recommend 45 degrees unless the subject is close, cool!

If I have the time my choice is to deploy the 80/20, but if I don't have time and I am shooting with the 580 I pull out the catch light card and flip down the wide angle modifier and it is almost as good (as mentioned by Richard).

If I'm stuck with the 430 though, I don't have the bounce card, so it sounds as though I can leave the stofen on with the head angled up and I'd get a similar effect - I'll give it a go.

Thank you John, I can now see that putting the stofen on when I'm shooting into an umbrella/softbox is a good idea - in the past I have always removed it in order to eek out a bit more power. I'll give that a go too.

Many thanks both!
 
stevedunster said:
in the past I have always removed it in order to eek out a bit more power. I'll give that a go too.
Click to expand...

Aye, they can zap a bit of power. Fortunately these days it's not much of a problem to bump a stop or two on the ISO and get a light back if needed.
 
What about those little mini flash diffusers that look like little chef's hats... Are they any good or should I stay away from them & stay with my StoFen wanna-b?
 
Kaouthia said:
Ahh that looks neat. Like a good 80-20 alternative, with its "sunroof" n' all ;)

The other alternative, one that I like to use as often as possible, is to smooth talk an assistant into following you around all day carrying a boom that has an SB-900 and 24" softbox on the end of it. Then the only thing you need to worry about is if the flash on the boom can see the CLS signal from your hot-shoed commander. ;)
Click to expand...

I've got a similar contraption, it's virtually a mobile studio but I've only used it a couple of times as you look like a complete clown and can't get through doors with it :eek: :lol: And it's heavy.

It's a long Manfrotto flash bracket with an umbrella adaptor, one 580EX firing through the brolly at the subject, plus a second 580EX on the camera as a master, firing straight up to the ceiling. Brightens the whole room with natural-looking bounce light, and puts lovely light on the subject. Tweak the ratios to suit, all E-TTL controlled :thumbs:

You'll get the idea looking at the flash bracket here http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-manfrotto-mn233b-camera-flash-bracket/p11017

Trig's said:
What about those little mini flash diffusers that look like little chef's hats... Are they any good or should I stay away from them & stay with my StoFen wanna-b?
Click to expand...

I think Jessops sell them for a fiver don't they? Works just like a Stofen, but they don't stay in shape and keep falling off. I suppose you could velco it down or something, but since you can get a Stofen copy for £2.99 it hardly seems worth it.
 
Thats ok then, as more pennies saved towards another lens :thumbs:
 
HoppyUK said:
... it's virtually a mobile studio but I've only used it a couple of times as you look like a complete clown and can't get through doors with it :eek: :lol: And it's heavy.

It's a long Manfrotto flash bracket with an umbrella adaptor, one 580EX firing through the brolly at the subject, plus a second 580EX on the camera as a master, firing straight up to the ceiling. Brightens the whole room with natural-looking bounce light, and puts lovely light on the subject. Tweak the ratios to suit, all E-TTL controlled :thumbs:

You'll get the idea looking at the flash bracket here http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-manfrotto-mn233b-camera-flash-bracket/p11017

I think Jessops sell them for a fiver don't they? Works just like a Stofen, but they don't stay in shape and keep falling off. I suppose you could velco it down or something, but since you can get a Stofen copy for £2.99 it hardly seems worth it.
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I couldn't be doing with that Richard...I'd rather have an assistant holding poles, brollies and lights...at least I could get through the door LOL
 
-- see above post --
[I wanted to delete this put couldn't figure out how]
 
stevedunster said:
I couldn't be doing with that Richard...I'd rather have an assistant holding poles, brollies and lights...at least I could get through the door LOL
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Yes, a couple of Voice Operated Light Stands are definitely the favoured option, but I don't have any.

You could tie a string around their waists to get the lighting distances right, and another from waist to hand to do the height, and wander around as a mobile hit squad zapping anything that gets trapped on the datum point in the middle :D
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, a couple of Voice Operated Light Stands are definitely the favoured option, but I don't have any.

You could tie a string around their waists to get the lighting distances right, and another from waist to hand to do the height, and wander around as a mobile hit squad zapping anything that gets trapped on the datum point in the middle :D
Click to expand...

:clap: Voice Operated Light Stands - complete with strings - excellent! :lol:
 
HoppyUK said:
....
Without a ceiling, a Stofen does absolutely nothing. With a ceiling, it gives a similar effect to the catchlight card.
Click to expand...

Richard and John...

NEWSFLASH - Stofen is very helpful even when there is nothing to bounch off

ooooooh, I'm in deep doo-doo. :suspect: After this very informative thread and discussion about Stofens being pointless unless there is something for it to bounce off:

When we went out today on a family outing, I confidently told my wife that she didn't need her stofen on her 580. If she ends up bouncing she can use the catchlight card. I kept mine on my 430.

My flash work was consistently better than my wife's (you can imagine how well that went down :bat:). Eventually it came to a head and we had to compare settings. Identical!...except for the stofen. I took mine off, she put hers on...conclusive:

Stofens would appear to be helpful, not just for bounce (and 45 degrees stofen bounce worked really well)...but also for direct flash, be it for fill or main light.

Don't know the science but our results would appear conclusive...without the stofen my wife's flash looked like party shots (you know what I mean, all white and bright even with the FEC backed off). Mine on the other hand, with the stofen, had beautifully blended flash with the available light.

So guys, perhaps you can come up with some science I can use to rescue me from grump-tog-wife syndrome.:help:

For us, the stofens stay on...like they always have.

Perhaps the middle of the stofen at the front is more dense that the outer to even out the light...is that likely/possible.

Steve
 
stevedunster said:
Richard and John...

NEWSFLASH - Stofen is very helpful even when there is nothing to bounch off

ooooooh, I'm in deep doo-doo. :suspect: After this very informative thread and discussion about Stofens being pointless unless there is something for it to bounce off:

When we went out today on a family outing, I confidently told my wife that she didn't need her stofen on her 580. If she ends up bouncing she can use the catchlight card. I kept mine on my 430.

My flash work was consistently better than my wife's (you can imagine how well that went down :bat:). Eventually it came to a head and we had to compare settings. Identical!...except for the stofen. I took mine off, she put hers on...conclusive:

Stofens would appear to be helpful, not just for bounce (and 45 degrees stofen bounce worked really well)...but also for direct flash, be it for fill or main light.

Don't know the science but our results would appear conclusive...without the stofen my wife's flash looked like party shots (you know what I mean, all white and bright even with the FEC backed off). Mine on the other hand, with the stofen, had beautifully blended flash with the available light.

So guys, perhaps you can come up with some science I can use to rescue me from grump-tog-wife syndrome.:help:

For us, the stofens stay on...like they always have.

Perhaps the middle of the stofen at the front is more dense that the outer to even out the light...is that likely/possible.

Steve
Click to expand...

Haha! It would be interesting to see the results, but what you say is quite possible, in fact probable. I shouldn't have said without a ceiling the Stofen does nothing - that was careless. I should have said much less effective - it depends on the surroundings.

For example, if you use a Stofen outside, at night, where everything is black including the photographer's shirt and shoes, all the Stofen will do (if it's at 45 degs) is raise the height of the flash slightly, and send light mostly into nowehere, never to return. You could argue that the total area of the Stofen is slightly larger than the bare flash head, but that's moot TBH.

But what I think may be happening here, and it's a fair point, is that a Stofen sends light pretty much in all directions. It is not like using a bounce card in this respect. Sure, most of it goes up, and if there is no ceiling that will be wasted, but a lot also goes down and to the sides. If any of that is picked up by anything nearby - the floor, other people, light shirts, walls, whatever - some of that light will get reflected back and will have a softening effect. Depending on the circumstances, that could be quite a useful amount.

It would also explain why press photographers often use Stofens outside - they are not fussed about wasting a bit of light, and every drop of light reflected back off anything will help a bit - and it certainly won't do any harm.

Cheers for that Steve. A bounce card and a Stofen are not always the same - with a ceiling providing the dominant bounce light, very similar; but take away the ceiling when the bounce card becomes useless, the Stofen will still do a little bit of softening, depending on the situation. I'll be more careful with my words in future :thumbs:
 
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