Really basic flash question

ShoeQueen

ShoeQueen

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I have a D90 with SB600. I've been using it to take dancing shots at various events and simply bouncing the flash off the ceiling. That seems to work fine and I shoot at about 1/60. Last week I got a diffuser (the small plastic sort you put on top of the flash) to put over the flash and noticed that ended up creating shadowns behind the subjects even with the flash pointed directly up. Was that because the diffuser was causing the light to spread out in several directions instead of straight up?

I thought the photos simply bounced looked better than the ones with the diffuser so perhaps I'm using the diffuser incorrectly?
 
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Good question !! I have the same camera, flash and have just acquired the diffuser... would like to know how best to use it, too ;)
 
Take it off and use a bit of black foam to flag the flash from hitting the subject directly, then all the light hitting the subject is bounced light and will appear softer..

Black foamie thing
 
Looks interesting. I've just been bouncing off a ceiling in rooms with little/no overhead lights, usually just low side lights and coloured flashing lights and that does usually work, but I do need to learn other things.

I just noticed that with the diffuser and flash pointed directly up at ceiling, I was getting shadows behind the people, which I don't get with the flash at the same angle but no diffuser.
 
ShoeQueen said:
Looks interesting. I've just been bouncing off a ceiling in rooms with little/no overhead lights, usually just low side lights and coloured flashing lights and that does usually work, but I do need to learn other things.

I just noticed that with the diffuser and flash pointed directly up at ceiling, I was getting shadows behind the people, which I don't get with the flash at the same angle but no diffuser.
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Sure you'll get a shadow behind, becuase the diffuser cap is sending some light directly forward to the subject - as it's intened to do, giving you both bounce and fill-in at the same time.

The diffuser also sends light all around, behind and sideways as well as up, so that you get additional bounced light from walls etc.

In the right circumstances, diffuser caps (Stofen) work quite well and the direct light lifts shadows under eyes and chins and puts a nice sparkle in the eyes that you usually don't get with ordinary bouncing. But they're not very controllable and certainly don't work under all conditions.
 
HoppyUK said:
Sure you'll get a shadow behind, becuase the diffuser cap is sending some light directly forward to the subject - as it's intened to do, giving you both bounce and fill-in at the same time.

The diffuser also sends light all around, behind and sideways as well as up, so that you get additional bounced light from walls etc.

In the right circumstances, diffuser caps (Stofen) work quite well and the direct light lifts shadows under eyes and chins and puts a nice sparkle in the eyes that you usually don't get with ordinary bouncing. But they're not very controllable and certainly don't work under all conditions.
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Thanks, that's very helpful. :) So probably for the dancing shots, my method of bouncing off ceiling is better.

I'll play about with the Stofen type diffuser in other circs to see how its best to use it.
 
ShoeQueen said:
Thanks, that's very helpful. :) So probably for the dancing shots, my method of bouncing off ceiling is better.

I'll play about with the Stofen type diffuser in other circs to see how its best to use it.
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Yes, play around. All bounce flash is obviously totally dependent on the environment and results therefore vary dramatically. Stofen works best with people/groups in a normal-ish room with a white ceiling and light walls.

There are three exposures happening simultaneously with flash attachments like this. The bounce component, the direct component, and also the ambient light which can be introduced by dragging the shutter. With a Stofen, you cannot do much about the first two although zooming the flash head to max will put a bit more light into the ceiling bounce part.

Also have a play with a simple bounce card, like the little pull-out hilight panel that most guns have, except your SB600! Just fix a white business card to the back of the flash with a rubber band - it's surprisingly effective!
 
IIRC on the card that comes with Stofen diffusers there is some advice regarding its use, particularly the angle to set the flash head.
 
HoppyUK said:
Yes, play around. All bounce flash is obviously totally dependent on the environment and results therefore vary dramatically. Stofen works best with people/groups in a normal-ish room with a white ceiling and light walls.
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Yes, the dancing shots are all in quite low light, fortunately all the venues we use have white ceilings which helps with ceiling bounce. When I first got the flash, I got a friend to sit on a chair in the living room and tried bouncing above, to the left, right, behind me, just to see what different effects it had, so I'll try that again with the diffuser on.

HoppyUK said:
There are three exposures happening simultaneously with flash attachments like this. The bounce component, the direct component, and also the ambient light which can be introduced by dragging the shutter. With a Stofen, you cannot do much about the first two although zooming the flash head to max will put a bit more light into the ceiling bounce part.

Also have a play with a simple bounce card, like the little pull-out hilight panel that most guns have, except your SB600! Just fix a white business card to the back of the flash with a rubber band - it's surprisingly effective!
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Thanks, that's helpful to think about the different light effects. And I'll try the business card bounce idea too. :)

kartracer said:
IIRC on the card that comes with Stofen diffusers there is some advice regarding its use, particularly the angle to set the flash head.
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Its not a Stofen, just one of those unbranded ones, so no instructions included. So I just put it on and tried similar shots with/without it to see what effect it had.
 
ShoeQueen said:
Yes, the dancing shots are all in quite low light, fortunately all the venues we use have white ceilings which helps with ceiling bounce. When I first got the flash, I got a friend to sit on a chair in the living room and tried bouncing above, to the left, right, behind me, just to see what different effects it had, so I'll try that again with the diffuser on.

Thanks, that's helpful to think about the different light effects. And I'll try the business card bounce idea too. :)

Its not a Stofen, just one of those unbranded ones, so no instructions included. So I just put it on and tried similar shots with/without it to see what effect it had.
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Bounce cards are very effective and versatile, and cost nothing. Check out this video which, if you can get along with the slightly batty presenter (I think he's a hoot :D) actually contains some very good advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNCmuExlHvM

The only instruction that came with my Stofen was to angle it at 60 degrees as a default position. I should have mentioned that different angles do change the ratio of bounce-to-fill a bit.

I think Lumiquest make the best flash accessories www.lumiquest.com and I'm particularly impressed with their Quik Bounce - very versatile, effective and efficient. But I have a feeling that a bounce card might actually be best for your application. Your chair/room test is perfect to try a few things. The Demb Flip-it is a (slightly) more professional looking bouncecard attachment. Also look up the Rogue Flashbender.
 
Thanks Richard - the link to Lumiquest showed me there is clearly a lot of options and attachments to direct and control flash. I've a lot to learn! (Fortunately the dancers I know are now well used to seeing me turning up with my camera and taking shots so I've plenty of opportunity to practice. :D )

HoppyUK said:
Check out this video which, if you can get along with the slightly batty presenter (I think he's a hoot :D) actually contains some very good advice http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNCmuExlHvM
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Thanks, that was helpful.
 
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ShoeQueen said:
Thanks Richard - the link to Lumiquest showed me there is clearly a lot of options and attachments to direct and control flash. I've a lot to learn! (Fortunately the dancers I know are now well used to seeing me turning up with my camera and taking shots so I've plenty of opportunity to practice. :D )

Thanks, that was helpful.
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Haha! You survived 18 minutes of Peter Gregg!

There are millions of these flash 'diffusers' around, usually accompanied by impressive looking comparison pictures which make no reference to the environment (ie the surrounding bounce surfaces) that actually do all the work.

The Stofen for example, when used outside makes precisely zero difference because it doesn't increase of size of the light source itself at all - that's down to the ceiling. If there is nothing for it to bounce off, all it does outside is waste a huge amount of light.

The Lumiquest site has some good tutorials free of bullcrap, and the vids are helpful and, unlike our Peter, they're brief :D The rule is, the larger the light source, the softer the shadows, bearing in mind that size is relative to the subject and distance, eg a smallish softbox very close to the subject will be soft, whereas a big light source from a distance becomes harder (like the sun).

Edit: while I'm at it, might as well mention the other two crucial factors you need to know about lighting. One is the inverse square law which states that when you double the distance from the flash to subject, the light is reduced to one quarter. Two, angle of incidence equals angle of reflection, ie light bounces off a surface at the same angle it strikes it, like a snooker ball off the cushion.

Those three factors apply to almost every lighting situation.
 
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HoppyUK said:
Haha! You survived 18 minutes of Peter Gregg!
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He seems a bit of a character, but yes, he held my attention and I did learn stuff.
HoppyUK said:
Edit: while I'm at it, might as well mention the other two crucial factors you need to know about lighting. One is the inverse square law which states that when you double the distance from the flash to subject, the light is reduced to one quarter. Two, angle of incidence equals angle of reflection, ie light bounces off a surface at the same angle it strikes it, like a snooker ball off the cushion.

Those three factors apply to almost every lighting situation.
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I wish I had done more physics at school now! I've so much to learn, but I will understand it, I just need to practice and work at it. I do want to understand how it all works, not just what looks good in a certain shot.
 
Thanks for the link, thoroughly enjoyed the lesson even if he is most definately a little bit eccentric.
 
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