REACHING OUT

Michael Amadoro

Michael Amadoro

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Michael
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Hi All

I'm reaching out for some guidance.

Over the past 6 months I have become obsessed with photography.
I've been shooting every day in manual and teaching myself new compositions and styles. Enjoying it more and more.

I have been doing basic Lightroom and Photoshoop RAW editing.

I have faced 1 big challenge and not sure how to over come it. Being new to this and not having any friends into photography, I am finding it very hard to talk to someone about it. Hence this post.

Can someone please help. I'm looking for a mentor or any advice on how to make a professional start in the indistry.

I have recently just moved from Sydney, Australia to the UK and would love to move away from my job into the photography world.

Is a course a good idea to create a community around md? Or offering to lend a hand in studio to learn from a pro a good idea? Where do I start?!

I love landscape photography and being outdoors, but would love to get into product, studio and sports photography.

Please help. Looking forward to any suggestions or advice.

Thanks alot!

Michael
 
Don't give up your day job :)

What business background do you have?
 
Honestly, there must be countless thousands of people out there just like you who would love to make a start in "the industry". You may have what it takes, but it is REALLY tough.

Six months is no time at all. It makes you a beginner. Please be realistic.
 
kendo1 said:
Don't give up your day job :)

What business background do you have?
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Seconded, don't give up the day job.
Whereabouts are you in the UK? What skills do you have that you could bring to someone.

So thinking studios, what benefits would this have to that person to train someone who might leave and set up similar in their area, or slow their workflow. Think about whats in it for them.
Would you work for free at weekends, do the donkey work
Sports, What kit do you have? Some smaller event companies will have a pool of shooters for events. I used to do some work for one shooting things like youth rugby tournaments. You're on your feet all day for not much money, but it was fun, but you need decent kits to do it.

Do you have a very good portfolio to show off your work. If emailing then a good professional website showing off your work?
 
Please be realistic? I'm just asking for some advice not to dive in and expect wages.

I work full time as a high end security engineer and want a career change. Yes I know this is not going to happen over night but what should I do to take a step in that direction to make it happen.

As for shooting sports I know I need to save some cash to buy some nice gear. I have 2 bodies. A D5200 and a D500 with a few telephoto and prime lenses. Ultimately this kind of sport event shooting is just a goal and im not asking for a job at this point.

I live in London UK.

My main goal off this post is to hear from people that have made the change in Industry. What they suggest in terms of education and how to build a community of photographers around me.
 
Kipax (Tony) on here would be a good resource for sports photography.
Matt
 
Michael Amadoro said:
Please be realistic? I'm just asking for some advice not to dive in and expect wages.
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It's a bit of a stock answer :)
There are loads of threads started on TP on just this subject.
Partly in jest, partly in truth - don't give up your day job is actually very sensible.

Being a successful photographer is mainly about being successful at running a business - hence my question about your background.
It's not about taking pictures and the money rolls in...

The expectation , so often, is that someone can learn everything in six months and be a successful photographer.

Can you think of another profession where this happens?
 
kendo1 said:
It's a bit of a stock answer :)
There are loads of threads started on TP on just this subject.
Partly in jest, partly in truth - don't give up your day job is actually very sensible.

Being a successful photographer is mainly about being successful at running a business - hence my question about your background.
It's not about taking pictures and the money rolls in...
Click to expand...

I think I’d disagree. It’s about creative fulfilment. Most people who enjoy photography produce nature or fine art where professional photography is probably mostly wedding photography. Creative fulfilment and a career in this genre don’t go together except in a handful of cases - a lot of the great photographers started rich and didn’t get that way through their art.

Going back to the OP, the only way is to put the time in and just take photos. Probably as well, go to as many exhibitions as you can. Seeing proper prints is much better than relying on the internet.
 
HectorHughMunro said:
I think I’d disagree. It’s about creative fulfilment.
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So, how do you make money, pay bills, insurance, mortgage, equipment, travel, food, retirement, holidays, sick pay...
 
Probably the most realistic option is to start building up your portfolio and take on the occasional paid job at the weekend. With time would it be possible to begin working four, then three days a week, and do more paid photography on your days off? That way you could maintain your income and have something to fall back on if it goes belly up.
 
I don't think the intention of anyone above was to be rude. Try a business and sales courses and treat the photography as the product. There are hundreds of tutorial videos for learning photography that you can fit in when you have time.
 
Creative fulfilment.
Hm.

There was me thinking the OP was trying to make a career out of photography.
I obviously didn't read the OPs opening post!

Oh, wait! I did. He does.
 
Michael Amadoro said:
I'm looking for a mentor or any advice on how to make a professional start in the indistry
Click to expand...

Main step is to find customers who want to buy your pictures. Did you sell any already? Thought about what and who you want to sell to? I’d plan on a slow transition too as it’s likely to take a long time to build up to something viable.
 
Michael Amadoro said:
I have recently just moved from Sydney, Australia to the UK and would love to move away from my job into the photography world.
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Please don’t take this the wrong way (I’m all for economic migration, etc.): but assuming that “would love to move away from my job” means that you want to become a full time photographer, and assuming that if you moved from Sydney you are a Australian citizen not a U.K. citizen; how would leaving your current job affect your immigration status vis-à-vis visas, work permits, etc?
 
Creating a photography business is the same as any other business, your key relationships are with customers not other business owners.
Stick around, there's loads of great business advice here, spend a day in the business section, but before you judge anyone as being dismissive, please understand that we have a dozen first threads a year with exactly your question. And about 2% of them stick around to learn. If you think photographers are a tough audience, wait till you're trying to squeeze money out of people in an overcrowded market.

How much do you earn and what is your domestic situation? My guess is that you earn more than the majority of working pro's as a 'high end' security engineer in London, but I might be wrong.

Product photography is a completely different skillset to sports photography, they'd be entirely different businesses too, there's no overlap. I'm guessing you'd be hard pressed to find many sports photographers who did studio work as well. They're specialised areas and to be successful at either would need dedication.
 
HectorHughMunro said:
I think I’d disagree. It’s about creative fulfilment. Most people who enjoy photography produce nature or fine art where professional photography is probably mostly wedding photography. Creative fulfilment and a career in this genre don’t go together except in a handful of cases - a lot of the great photographers started rich and didn’t get that way through their art.

Going back to the OP, the only way is to put the time in and just take photos. Probably as well, go to as many exhibitions as you can. Seeing proper prints is much better than relying on the internet.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.
Most 'professional photographers' that hang about on forums may be wedding photographers, but most of us are part time. In any town there'll be a couple of commercial studio's, and in bigger cities there'll be loads. There'll also be press and sports photographers, there might just be 'more' wedding photographers than any other single sector, but far from the majority. And everyone that does this for a living does it to pay the mortgage. And the best way to see what 'pro's are producing' is to pick up a newspaper, magazine, look at websites of other businesses etc etc. You won't find much 'commercial' photography in galleries.
 
Michael Amadoro said:
My main goal off this post is to hear from people that have made the change in Industry. What they suggest in terms of education and how to build a community of photographers around me.
Click to expand...

I'm sure a search of the business section would give an answer to your question. But be aware, you've asked a very specific business question on a forum largely populated by amateurs and the pro's that spend most time here are wedding photographers. The answer to your query isn't likely to fall in your lap.

But as far as 'how to make it' goes, there's more relevant info already posted than you realise. The first thing I'd do looking for a career move though? check the earnings data, can you afford it?
 
HectorHughMunro said:
In all but a handful of cases, you don’t. Professional status is a nice thing to have but non existent for most of us. Often, it’s not even wanted.
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Absolutely - but of no relevance to the thread or help to the OP :D
 
Phil V said:
I'm sure a search of the business section would give an answer to your question. But be aware, you've asked a very specific business question on a forum largely populated by amateurs and the pro's that spend most time here are wedding photographers. The answer to your query isn't likely to fall in your lap.

But as far as 'how to make it' goes, there's more relevant info already posted than you realise. The first thing I'd do looking for a career move though? check the earnings data, can you afford it?
Click to expand...

I think theres been lots of good advice given, just maybe not what he wants to hear. Does he want to specialise in a field or just make money as a jobbing photographer. How much does he need to earn (Venture type studios normally have vacancies). Does he have a portfolio to show?
 
Most of the commercial photographers I know started off as studio runners or assistants.

They learned on the job from an established photographer, who learned on the job from an established photographer. etc. But it's always long days, not that well paid and I can't see that type of work fitting around A.N. Other job.

I don't see a huge commercial potential in landscape photography - not many people I know (outside of work) would commission a photographer to take a landscape for them, but they may buy a print of their favourite landmark. And inside of work, if we wanted a shot of a particular location, we'd use Getty - unless there was a particular requirement for something in that setting - in which case we'd trawl through tonnes of photographers books until we find one we like the look of, who's available and can do it on budget. This would not be the time we'd be prepared to take a chance on an unknown. Partly just down to us not wanted to put our jobs at risk by wasting time and money, but also we normally choose photographers, then have to sell that work in to a client, who often has to justify the cost to their boss.

Of course it's possible to make a very good living from photography - a few years ago we commissioned a 4-week shoot using 100 models for £800,000 and used a particular photographer that charged 10k to produce a shot of an Army boot. Not even a pair...

But those jobs are the exception rather than the norm.

Product photography these days is becoming more and more CGI rather than actual photos - as it's much easier to amend CGI artwork for label reprints/refreshes. And when it is actual photography, you're competing against the likes of the Packshot Company who can bang something out for less than £100.

I have no real experience of sports/event photography. But it looks incredibly difficult to break into. I read an article last year outlining how Getty photographers worked at the 2016 Olympics. Being Getty, they got all the good spots first, and each photographer was cable wired in to a network that saw all their shots arrive on an editor's desk for pre-selection. The chosen shots would be sent to someone operating processing software, where they'd apply a quick general filter and have them uploaded on the Getty website for Newspapers, websites and TV to use in under 2 minutes from it being taken. It's hard to see how a solo photographer could even begin to compete with that. It's also incredibly difficult in some instances to use anything that looks even vaguely like a pro-camera at many sports events if you're not part of the official team.

For reference: https://www.popphoto.com/behind-scenes-2016-olympics-photography-getty-images#page-3

Realistically, for someone already in an unrelated job like you are, it would probably be volunteering to help out (unpaid - or minimum wage) so that you can learn on the job or taking courses.
 
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I agree on breaking into the major sports photography, you've only got to look at Kipax asking how does anyone make money with the number of photographers at matches.
There are the smaller event companies, they have 2- 4 photographers covering the local event, a van for editing and producing prints there and then. Think local cross countries, youth rugby/football although for those you need to be cleared with the FA/RFU to work with children (or it's a lot easier to be).

It's not a huge daily rate for the hours, I used to get £50 or £60 for the day. Ok as a side job but if I had to take fuel out (Wiltshire is huge), insurance, kit replacement as if I was working for real I was on a loser, yet that was the going rate.

Car photography, sligthly more depending on what shots got used, usually I was there as a helper, 2nd shooter.
The best payday was on holiday, spotted a major star in a carnival, took the photos, which got sold to the local paper then a US agency. I thought I'd done very well as it covered the holiday plus, then found out for that week they were syndicated world wide. The photos were everywhere.
So, papping, seems to be the way to made money. Hows your morals? :D
 
good luck! but don't let your hobby turn into an onerous chore.
For example, I have a full time job working in an office but shoot part-time which takes the pressure off and keeps things fresh. I can pay the bills but still get paid a bit for some low-key sports photography work.
Also I'm honestly not an amazing photographer so can't imagine that I'd earn what I'd need to keep my family happy.

Up here in the north east, there is a working pro who made the jump and does a lot of studio, fashion, reportage and weddings, He starting a mentoring programme (you pay for it) and includes business advice.
Interestingly, (to me anyway) one of the most well known north-east wildlife photographers also does some product shots (detailed focus stacking work) from time to time but the hassle seems to outweight the income from some of his stories.
 
Photography isn't rich in money unless you're a pro fashion photographer and even then you'll probably be earning far more doing your current job unless you're incredible talented. I've heard some quotations from pro fashion photographers that they wouldn't get out of bed for less than 10k. Also if you're loving photography would you still love it if it was a job? That's why I've never pursued becoming a pro (also my pictures are "pro" enough either haha).

Anyway, the best way to get started is to start taking pictures and getting them seen. Find people doing similar work you would like to do and ask them if you can lend a hand for a day or so to see how they do things and learn from them. Then build it from there by doing some jobs for free then slowly adding a price and increasing it as you get better and more exposure (see what I did there? ;)).
 
Hi Michael and welcome to 'Talk Photography Forum' :wave:

As well as the above ideas, I'd also suggest googling your nearest photo-club and pop along to a couple of meetings, most clubs let prospective members attend 2~3 meetings for free, to see if it suits them.

You'll find a lot of nice folks both amateur and professional who are into photography, plus most will be willing to pass on any tips and tricks they have, as well as info for their particular speciality.
 
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