RB67 vs Hasselblad 500C/M

Harlequin565

Harlequin565

Suspended / Banned
Messages
8,684
Name
Ian
Edit My Images
No
I've been having a trim down of cameras and have finally settled on a 35mm setup. Now I turn towards MF...

I currently have a Rolleiflex Automat which I don't really use because I find the viewfinder too dim. I enjoy the square format though.

I also have the RB67 which is a huge heavy monstrosity. I don't mind the 6x7 format, but I'm not sold on it. Got 2 spare backs and all the lenses, so it takes up a lot of space.

I was thinking the 500 C/M would make a good replacement for the Rollei and the RB. It's square (scratching that itch) and it's [supposedly] smaller & lighter too. Fully mechanical (which is important) and interchangeable backs. After spending so much time with prime lenses, I'd need a 50mm, 80mm and 150mm and that would be me done.

Why no Bronica? - If I'm selling the RB and Rollei to fund it, cost isn't as much of an issue.
Why no [Electronic camera]? - Because of electronics.
Why no Pentax 67? - Because I wanted a square camera and interchangeable backs.

Anyone done this journey and either regretted it, or enjoyed it? Anyone have any thoughts?
 
Last edited:
If money is no problem there is the Rollei SL66 very well made and excellent lenses but IMO over engineered.
casualphotophile.com

Rolleiflex SL66 Camera Review

The first medium format SLR camera that Rollei produced, the Rolleiflex SL66, is one of the more interesting cameras I've ever shot.
casualphotophile.com casualphotophile.com
 
When I first moved up from 35mm to medium format, Sue and I went to a local dealer fully believing we'd choose a Hasselblad 500CM (or whatever it was back then). Certainly small and light when compared to other cameras, but the handling! Neither of us got on with it, and preferred the RB67 for the handling - that was enough to sell the camera.

In retrospect, possibly if we'd added additional hand grips and whatever, it might have been acceptable; and even without, on a tripod, no problem. But for hand held, RB67 every time. Adding the extras to a Hasselblad would rather negate the size and weight advantage.

Your opinion may differ - but my advice is to check the handling.

From heresay, Hasselblads seem to be less mix and match in terms of needing backs and inserts to be paired, whereas I know of no such issues with Mamiyas.
 
Last edited:
Anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I can only offer thoughts Ian, so here they are from my perspective. I have some Bronica SQA and SQB kit which I rarely use outdoors due to it being heavy as a kit, which in turn means always having a decent tripod to carry. I have pondered swapping it for either a Bronica GS-1 or RB67 and just accepting the weight, but am reluctant to take the plunge. I originally bought the entry SQB kit as it was half the price of the Hassy 501C, and the BJP ran a reasonably favourable comparison which stated that either would seriously improve my photography. :rolleyes:

As I move away from 35mm, I find my Rolleicord Vb ends up as my go-to camera since I carry it in a small bag and use it handheld. My Ensign Selfix 16-20 is even more easily carried, but the viewfinder isn't particularly accurate and you have to estimate focus distance, so less useful for critical focus. The Ensign Selfix I bought to scratch a 6x9 itch has similar issues, but is again easily carried. This model of Rolleicord has a removable screen, and I'm wondering if your Automat can also have the screen replaced with a brighter one? I know there are reasonably cheap Chinese ones, but don't know if they are any good.

Brian mentions the Rollei SL66 and this was a camera I always wanted to try after reading Barry Thornton's "Elements", but he also points out that cameras are a really personal thing and what suits him didn't necessarly suit someone else. I recall that @sirch has/had an SL66 a while back, but seems to have been using his Bronica kit recently instead, so maybe he can comment on that.?
 
Harlequin565 said:
I've been having a trim down of cameras and have finally settled on a 35mm setup. Now I turn towards MF...

I currently have a Rolleiflex Automat which I don't really use because I find the viewfinder too dim. I enjoy the square format though.

I also have the RB67 which is a huge heavy monstrosity. I don't mind the 6x7 format, but I'm not sold on it. Got 2 spare backs and all the lenses, so it takes up a lot of space.

I was thinking the 500 C/M would make a good replacement for the Rollei and the RB. It's square (scratching that itch) and it's [supposedly] smaller & lighter too. Fully mechanical (which is important) and interchangeable backs. After spending so much time with prime lenses, I'd need a 50mm, 80mm and 150mm and that would be me done.

Why no Bronica? - If I'm selling the RB and Rollei to fund it, cost isn't as much of an issue.
Why no [Electronic camera]? - Because of electronics.
Why no Pentax 67? - Because I wanted a square camera and interchangeable backs.

Anyone done this journey and either regretted it, or enjoyed it? Anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...
6x6 format is real bind (almost a car with square wheels) How many square prints do you see. Also the shutters on some are leaf as apposed to focul plane(no good for fast moving objects).

I had 6x6 and found I just ended up cropping all the images to print 10x8 ect.
I bought a Pentax 6x7 in fact two. F2.4 105mm f2.8 165mm. It was great for everything, sports landscape and studio.
I still have one now all the buttons and dials in the correct place and a built in light meter via the pentaprism.
It is just a big 35mm with a negative 4.8 times bigger. 4200 sq mm v 864 sq mm. What will you get with a cropped 6x6 image!

What do you want? Do you know?

I want medium format. Then buy a big 35mm camera with proper sized medium format.

Carting additionla backs around was a complete pain, even more weight.
 
If it's just the viewfinder that's the issue with the automat it's worth changing the mirror and focussing screens to new ones. It's then far, far brighter and easier to use. I did that with mine and it's loads better. The original mirror was a right manky mess.
 
@Andysnap is a big fan of the Mamiya TLRs and that would give you the benefit of interchangeable lenses for 6x6?
 
On the pain of carting additional backs...

It depends what you're photographing. It's easier to swap a back on a RZ67 than change the film - and faster. There was a time when I was photographing round the Glencoe lochan, and as I reached the far end, I finished a film. Having another back in my pocket meant I could carry on without losing the time (or light).

My only experience with 6x6 (box camera apart) is with a Mamiya C330f. From what I've read, the interchangeable lenses come with a size/weight penalty for the camera. If the RB67 is too big and heavy, I suspect the a Mamiya may fail the test compared with the Automat.
 
If you don't like the square format on the Hasselblad you could always buy a 645 back for it.
You can also get a focus screen mask to enable easier composition.
 
Thanks for all the comments folks...

I do enjoy square as a format. Really not bothered what other people do and if there are no square prints in the world it wouldn't stop me making one! :)

I don't tend to cart around additional backs but do tend to have colour in one, B&W in another and IR in the 3rd which I swap around before I go out.

This is my 2nd Automat. The first was one Andy sold me here, but I just don't enjoy the TLR form factor. I have looked at the Mamiya 330 but it just seems to be a heavier, weightier version of the K4B. To be clear, I have no issue with image quality from the little Rollei, I just don't enjoy using it.

I have a 645/SLR style camera with the Pentax which also has AF. So the 67 doesn't appeal.

Perhaps I'll hang on to the RB67 through to the Autumn. It hasn't been off the shelf for 12 months probably because we haven't been allowed out with a tripod for much of the last year and it's less of a walkaround camera, and more of a backpack one for me. Part of the reason to go a bit smaller. Stephen's comments about the RB over the 500C/M have set off a nagging wonder and whilst it would be good to try one, I'm not sure where/how to do that at the moment.

The SL66 looks lovely though...
 
To be honest, as nice as the Mamiya C330 (and derivatives) may be, I think it's more at home on a tripod in a studio; it's just too big and heavy in comparison to a Rolleiflex or Yashicamat type TLR to lug about all day.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Thanks for all the comments folks...

I do enjoy square as a format. Really not bothered what other people do and if there are no square prints in the world it wouldn't stop me making one! :)

I don't tend to cart around additional backs but do tend to have colour in one, B&W in another and IR in the 3rd which I swap around before I go out.

This is my 2nd Automat. The first was one Andy sold me here, but I just don't enjoy the TLR form factor. I have looked at the Mamiya 330 but it just seems to be a heavier, weightier version of the K4B. To be clear, I have no issue with image quality from the little Rollei, I just don't enjoy using it.

I have a 645/SLR style camera with the Pentax which also has AF. So the 67 doesn't appeal.

Perhaps I'll hang on to the RB67 through to the Autumn. It hasn't been off the shelf for 12 months probably because we haven't been allowed out with a tripod for much of the last year and it's less of a walkaround camera, and more of a backpack one for me. Part of the reason to go a bit smaller. Stephen's comments about the RB over the 500C/M have set off a nagging wonder and whilst it would be good to try one, I'm not sure where/how to do that at the moment.

The SL66 looks lovely though...
Click to expand...
Don't ya just love these first world problems. :)

I've had a fair few medium format cameras....... Bronica sqa, Bronica gs1, Rollei 6008i......................I always go back to Hasselblad.
They scream quality, are easy to use and have a retro style that makes them a sight to behold.

All that said, I found the cost of materials became prohibitive and standing at the sink for 45 mins to an hour became tiresome. And after all that I found myself digitizing them anyway.

In any case, good luck.
 
Mr Badger said:
To be honest, as nice as the Mamiya C330 (and derivatives) may be, I think it's more at home on a tripod in a studio; it's just too big and heavy in comparison to a Rolleiflex or Yashicamat type TLR to lug about all day.
Click to expand...

https://flic.kr/p/2kKbWGK
View: https://flic.kr/p/2kKbWGK


As in the pic above 1.83kg. I have found it a fairly easy camera to use for a day's shoot especially when used with the detachable handle and the viewfinder is significantly brighter than any of the Rollei cameras that I've used. The lenses are stellar, all of them all of the time.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Anyone done this journey and either regretted it, or enjoyed it? Anyone have any thoughts?
Click to expand...

Back in the day, an RB67 outfit and a Hasselblad 500c/m were my everyday cameras (along with a Sinar). I think they are both great cameras.

The smaller size and rounded edges made the Hasselblad a much easier camera to take out in the field (easy to slip into a bag). If you hold the Hasselblad properly (in the left hand with the left index finger on the shutter button, and have the focus lever with the older narrow focus ring lenses) the Hasselblad is much easier and faster to handle than the RB, especially with the square format. I prefer square prints for personal work, but even things like weddings and portraits (where you end up with 10x8 prints) were much faster to do with the Hasselblad because you didn't have to turn the camera or rotate the back. for vertical pictures I also liked the mirror lock button on the Hasselblad, which was especially easy to use.

The Hasselblad lenses were better quality, but in practice lens quality wasn't an issue with either camera. What was an issue were the Hasselblad backs which we had in a constant cycle with the repair shop. We had two more back than we needed because at least one was away for repair at any one time. Hasselblad told us to replace the 500C/Ms with 500ELs, because the back failures were a result of us unevenly stressing the film winding mechanism when winding on and the motor drives of the Els would correct this.

The other irritating aspect of the Hasselblads was the need to take the magazine off to fit the prism, not a problem if you used the prism all the time, but a pain if you primarily used the waist level a finder and only used the prism when needed. The waist level finder was brighter and had a higher magnification than the prism.

The RBs were much bulkier, heavier, clunkier and slower to use than the Hasselblads. However, you still quickly got used to the double action after every exposure (pressing down the lever to re-cock the shutter and then winding on the film) and with the built in bellows for close ups, and the rotating back for when non-square pictures were wanted, made it just as great a camera to use as the Hasselblad. The prism was enormous for the RB.

When I switched jobs (industrial and scientific photography) and needed to set a from scratch I bought an RB67 (and a Sinar) rather than a Hasselblad. The bigger neg and built in bellows swung it in the RBs favour. For my personal landscape photography, I would almost always end up taking out a Hasselblad, but it depended on my mood and where I was going.

I have probably used every roll film camera from that era, and as I still toy with the idea of getting back into film, I have also put some thought into what I would buy.

My short list of three options would include the RB the 500c/m (or newer) and a Rollei TLR; I used to love the simplicity of a fixed lens Rollei. As I generally like square prints, I wouldn't get the bigger neg advantage of the RB (most of the time) and the Hasselblads just "feels right" to use, so my gut says go Hasselblad, but the RB67 is such an incredibly functional photographic tool I would struggle not to go with an RB.

I suspect price and availability would influence my final choice, but overall I think the big issue is how much weight and bulk you are willing to carry.
 
Last edited:
Andysnap said:
I have found it a fairly easy camera to use for a day's shoot
Click to expand...
I've used Bronica, Hasselblad, Mamiya and Rollei. The camera which gave me the most useable/saleable pictures was the Mamiya C330.

It looks ghastly, weighs a ton and is an awkward b****r at the best of times. However, once I got used to it I realised that whoever designed it knew a lot about practical photography. The 80 and 180 lenses were my most used but I got on "so well" with the 55mm that I sold it and bought a Fuji 645 for wide angle work, instead!

Surprisingly, once you know what you're doing, you can even use it for candid photography...

Librarian at Exeter.jpg
 
Last edited:
Perhaps I'll hang on to the RB67 through to the Autumn. It hasn't been off the shelf for 12 months probably because we haven't been allowed out with a tripod for much of the last year and it's less of a walkaround camera, and more of a backpack one for me. Part of the reason to go a bit smaller. Stephen's comments about the RB over the 500C/M have set off a nagging wonder and whilst it would be good to try one, I'm not sure where/how to do that at the moment.

The SL66 looks lovely though...
Click to expand...
I'm strongly sensing a need for a try/swap MF meet before the Autumn, if only conditions would allow it to happen. (y)
 
Indeed. Pretty much everything Graham said above was extremely useful and highlights the "issue" (and as Tony says - this is a 1st world problem).

In terms of willing to carry, that's difficult. On its own, the RB + a spare lens + a spare back is easily doable for a day. Add waterproofs, a tripod, and tea/butties and it gets unpleasant. It is very unwieldy though, and I had a handle which was great but added yet another kg onto it. On a tripod, a prism finder would have been useful, but only Schwarzenegger would be able to tote all that around. I also find the double mechanism (shutter and film advance) annoying.

The 'blad has helicoid focussing though which has less close focus capability. And there is the insert/back compatibility (which can easily be sorted with careful purchase).

The SL66 seems to fix most of this, but the Internet reckons that can also have back issues. There's also the problem of sourcing one (not many about), a prism finder for it (hella expensive) and spare backs (also not many about)

Still. Thanks again for all the replies.
 
Last edited:
Harlequin565 said:
The SL66 seems to fix most of this, but the Internet reckons that can also have back issues. There's also the problem of sourcing one (not many about), a prism finder for it (hella expensive) and spare backs (also not many about)
Click to expand...

Myself and a colleague used to both lust after an SL66 as the perfect RB67/Hasselblad replacement for landscape especially as the SL66 also gave you some lens tilt.

He finally bought one, but very reluctantly got rid of it fairly quickly because of problems he had with it. I can't remember what these were (maybe it was back issues as you described) but it was bad enough to shatter the dream of owning an SL66.
 
Andysnap said:
https://flic.kr/p/2kKbWGK
View: https://flic.kr/p/2kKbWGK


As in the pic above 1.83kg. I have found it a fairly easy camera to use for a day's shoot especially when used with the detachable handle and the viewfinder is significantly brighter than any of the Rollei cameras that I've used. The lenses are stellar, all of them all of the time.
Click to expand...
Well, look on the bright side, at least you know you could get a job as a hod carrier! ;) I know they're a very nice camera, I had one for a while in the mid 90s, but I found it too large and awkward as a regular walk-about camera, so I traded it in as it just wasn't getting used enough. Given today's prices, I probably should have kept it. :LOL:
 
TBH I mainly use it on a tripod at home but it's always considered if I'm off out somewhere, it's just that my brain will say yes but my back will overrule :-)
 
It's probably just my perception but I get a sense that I mostly hear about Hasselblads when there's something wrong with them..

I'd rather have a Bronica personally. I do really like square format.
 
Used a hassleblad, much prefered the RZ67 in every aspect.
Found the seiko glass to be superior too.
Édit, if you really want no electrics ( I fully understand why!) , go LF.
‘Larger neg that you can crop down to any of the sizes that you currently use , square or otherwise.
A decent handheld outfit will weigh in close to a Hassy and if you want to stay MF , just stick a roll film holder on the back of it
 
Last edited:
Asha said:
go LF
Click to expand...

Asha, you beautiful misguided moth. (I've been watching Parks & Rec)

The LF ship has sailed. I can barely operate 6x17 without epic failure. I may as well set fire to money than shoot 4x5. Plus developing, plus scanning... No thanks kitchen/desk space.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Asha, you beautiful misguided moth. (I've been watching Parks & Rec)

The LF ship has sailed. I can barely operate 6x17 without epic failure. I may as well set fire to money than shoot 4x5. Plus developing, plus scanning... No thanks kitchen/desk space.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, I need to work on my persuasion skills :exit: :LOL:
 
Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica. Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica, Bronica.


excalibur2 said:
If money is no problem there is the Rollei SL66 very well made and excellent lenses but IMO over engineered.
Click to expand...
I've got an SL66 that I keep thinking of moving on because I really don't get on with it, it's a nice idea with the front tilt, reversable lenses but as you say over engineered and trying to be too many things at once.

Did I mention that personally I quite like my Bronica?
 
Last edited:
TBH Ian, if you want to have a go with the SL66 I'm happy to send it to you although it's more like an RB than a C500 or, well BRONICA SQ-A :-)
 
sirch said:
TBH Ian, if you want to have a go with the SL66 I'm happy to send it to you although it's more like an RB than a C500 or, well BRONICA SQ-A :)
Click to expand...

That's really kind of you Chris and might be the one occasion where I might take someone up on their offer. Can I ask why you prefer the Bronica over the SL? I think it was Steve O'Nions recent video about Hasselblad vs Bronica that got me thinking about this as they are two systems I've always wondered about.
 
sirch said:
Same as above Peter, I just don't use it so if you want to borrow it for a while I'm happy to lend it to you.
Click to expand...
That's an exceptionally generous offer Chris, but I'm clearly picking up your vibe on the Bronica. I guess I really need to shoot more with mine to find out why I don't use it more.
 
sirch said:
I've got an SL66 that I keep thinking of moving on because I really don't get on with it, it's a nice idea with the front tilt, reversable lenses but as you say over engineered and trying to be too many things at once.
Click to expand...

If Rollei had made common house door hinges they would probably make them precision with ball bearings o_O When I bought the RB67 it was crudely made in comparison to the SL66 but it was good enough for pros to use and reduced costs.
German over engineering? The more complicated something is made the more chance of something going wrong and I'm probably the only member here who doesn't rate Rollei as my SL66 and tele Rollei both developed faults and had to be repaired....well lucky the tele Rollei broke down in warranty and swopped it for the RB67 at Fox Talbot.
 
Why do you(the OP) like the 6x6cm format?
If you have 6x7 you can crop to 6x6 but if you have 6x6 you end up about 6x4.5 for a lanscape shot!
Do you always print photos square?
 
shapeshifter said:
Why do you(the OP) like the 6x6cm format?
If you have 6x7 you can crop to 6x6 but if you have 6x6 you end up about 6x4.5 for a landscape shot!
Do you always print photos square?
Click to expand...

I just enjoy it. Same as I enjoy shooting 6x17. I also have a 645 camera as well as many 35mm cameras for rectangular compositions.
I don't always print square because of the variety of cameras I have.

I enjoy the results from the K4B, but I really don't enjoy the process, controls, or limitations. This leaves me with no square option at MF sizes.

I like to compose in camera. My desired process isn't "take the photo and crop later", it's "take the photo".
 
Harlequin565 said:
That's really kind of you Chris and might be the one occasion where I might take someone up on their offer. Can I ask why you prefer the Bronica over the SL? I think it was Steve O'Nions recent video about Hasselblad vs Bronica that got me thinking about this as they are two systems I've always wondered about.
Click to expand...
First off I have to say I have never used a Hasselblad so can't really comment on that but regards the SL, it is bigger and heavier than the SQA but probably not of RB proportions and not as comfortable to use for me at least. It is also a finicky beast, you ALWAYS have to wind on and wind back the crank before it will let you do anything and whilst that doesn't sound like too much of a hardship, get it wrong and you can end up a bit stuck. I'm sure it's one of those things which with enough use would become second nature but the camera leaves me with an uneasy feeling that I am going to get something wrong. The lenses are bigger and heavier, not helped I guess by the fact that they are reversible and with marco not being something I would do very often it's a feature that is not much use to me.
 
Size for the SL66 and I have small hands? erm my wife took the shot with a Pentax S3 :rolleyes: When I was more into indoor portraiture with flash I didn't use the Rollei because of 1/30 sec sync and a 120\150mm lenses were a silly price.
Anyway doing my own printing went off 6X6 (waste of colour paper unless cropped) and thought if I'm cropping why not use 6X4.5 so bought an etrs.

LZ52hoY.jpg
 
It's a chunky looking camera (YouTube videos have confirmed) and whilst an interesting option, I think the downsides (for me) outweigh the benefits. Thanks @sirch for your honest review and others for weighing in.
 
For what it’s worth, I’ve used Rollei TLR, Pentax 67, Mamiya RZ67 and Hasselblad V kits extensively over the years and I’ll say that the Hasselblad system is (my) sweet spot. They have the flexibilty in terms of lenses/backs/SLR viewing that the RB/RZ/P67 have while not sacrificing much in terms of packability compared to my Rollei. It is noticeably heavier though, especially with an extra back, so I tend to bring the Rollei with me more often if photography isn’t the main priority. I think the jamming thing is overblown personally, just make sure everything is cocked and ready to shoot before putting it all together! I’ve had Mamiyas jam on shoots and attaching a back on a ‘blad is much simpler than on a Mamiya RZ.
 
excalibur2 said:
Size for the SL66 and I have small hands? erm my wife took the shot with a Pentax S3 :rolleyes: When I was more into indoor portraiture with flash I didn't use the Rollei because of 1/30 sec sync and a 120\150mm lenses were a silly price.
Anyway doing my own printing went off 6X6 (waste of colour paper unless cropped) and thought if I'm cropping why not use 6X4.5 so bought an etrs.

LZ52hoY.jpg
Click to expand...
This is a collector's item, it's not often you can see a Brian in his natural environment but without his trademark flashgun,
which when activated is known to blind anyone within a mile and is actually visible from space.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top