RAW vs JPEG

Miss Moo!!

Suspended / Banned
Messages
774
Edit My Images
No
Hello guys, I was wondering if you could help me...

I have set my camera to take both Jpegs and RAW images.

I am just editing my pics, as I have been told that I should always use the RAW image.. anyway I have just had a look at the Jpeg image and tbh it looks miles better than the RAW. Is it always best to use the RAW image even if you have taken the image using the correct settings and it has captured the image lovely?

Sorry if this made no sense.

:D
 
your camera applies some PP on Jpg images - not so with RAW files

I always and only shoot RAW, but hey thats just me :lol:

Les
 
If you're happy with the jpgs then I'd use them but bear in mind if you do any further pp on jpegs you start to degrade the image quality further as they are a lossy format. Keep the RAWs for a while in case you realise you might want to experiment further with them. Best of both worlds then :)

I'm lazy. I just use the camera jpgs.
 
GO JPG let the cam do the work - its 'trained' for it !! More and more folk use jpg now than ever before (i know the purists will disagree - but as an aging photo buff who used to spend hours in a darkroom !!!!!) lifes too short - spend the time behind the cam not the computer. By all means as above take both - but in the main i bet you will prefer the jpg to the image that your raw converter displays and expects you to 'post process'.
 
Last edited:
GO JPG let the cam do the work - its 'trained' for it !! More and more folk use jpg now than ever before (i know the purists will disagree - but as an aging photo buff who used to spend hours in a darkroom !!!!!) lifes too short - spend the time behind the cam not the computer. By all means as above take both - but in the main i bet you will prefer the jpg to the image that your raw converter displays and expects you to 'post process'.

Really? :thinking:

Can you link to your evidence for that, please?
 
Give me RAW anytime. I'm not that great a photographer to rely on JPEGS only. I like the flexibility RAW gives me.
 
It guts me i went to so many places 4 or 5 years ago shooting jpeg only, places that are gone now such as demolished buildings and when i look back at the shots i wish i had a RAW version that i could do so much more with. If your happy with your jpeg stick with it but there will always be shots that havent worked out so well which you could easily save if you had a RAW version
 
Really? :thinking:

Can you link to your evidence for that, please?

NO - but if you know better than the software guys at Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al in converting captured images (raw if you must) then tell us - you have to be very very good to do better than the camera - never mind whatthe reviews say about IQ (image quality) i defy most folk using prosumer cams to do better than the results out of the camera . If you are not going to make lage prints why bother with it - most images are put on the internet email televisions magic frames etc.
I'm not saying don't tweek or straighten perspective with PP software but the use most folk put their pic to don't need RAW to start with - the cam does that ! The best photos are 'probably' not technically perfect which todays pixel peepers seem to miss - IMHO
 
Last edited:
NO - but if you know better than the software guys at Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al in converting captured images (raw if you must) then tell us - you have to be very very good to do better than the camera - never mind whatthe reviews say about IQ (image quality) i defy most folk using prosumer cams to do better than the results out of the camera . If you are not going to make lage prints why bother with it - most images are put on the internet email televisions magic frames etc.

Nope, sorry, not with you at all here. If I know what better than
the software guys at etc? And who are these software guys, what have they said and where did you see it?

RAW gives far more flexibility in PP, but takes longer to process. I use both jpeg and RAW, depending on circumstances and time available. Like most of the other arguments, to say one method is definitively better than another is wrong because circumstances dictate.

I have not heard that RAW is going out of fashion as you say, nor do I understand what you mean when you say that the camera is `trained` for jpeg. Do you mean the presets that allow you to alter saturation, sharpening and so forth at the point of capture? If so, would you agree that these need to be altered for varied shooting conditions and to achieve the intended result?
 
I would further add a quote from the introduction to Victor Blackman's book 'My way with a camera' 1973 - and nothing has changed >

The trouble with many photographers is that they are more interested in technicalities, gadgets and obscure processes than they are with actually making pictures. I hope none of us belong to this brigade - examine yourself and decide - i frequently have to 'pull myself up' from being one of Victors 'many' specially when i want a new camera.
 
Raw processed in ACR or whatever converter you choose will in my opinion always show an improvement over an in camera processed jpeg

I also disagree that more and more people are just using jpegs, think that as raw becomes better understood and more widely publicised the benefits will become plain to see

That is borne out by the Op's question, obviously has heard about the raw concept and given it a try.

From a purely practical view how can the processor and software in your camera come close to the power contained in a pc with a specially developed editing program.
In fact my jpeg output is also set to neutral because they too look much better with a few tweaks here and there especially from the sharpening aspect

Back to the OP now, yes the raw will look less like the finished article, you are in effect working on the negative. have a play with it in Adobe Camera Raw and you will see what a difference it can make. Save the final effort as a jpeg and if you ever need it the raw will still be there to edit time and again without any loss in quality

Progress means the opportunity to use all the advantages that technology has given us, if that wasn't the case we would never buy a new model of camera.
 
Last edited:
What do you use to edit your files now? Adobe and Apple software don't read the in camera adjustments in the raw, so all you get is literally the raw data.

You could just shoot in Raw and use the Nikon editing software, as that will apply the in camera adjustments (the raw will look like the OOC jpegs) and then you can carry on your edits from there.
 
mikeysaling said:
NO - but if you know better than the software guys at Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al in converting captured images (raw if you must) then tell us - you have to be very very good to do better than the camera - never mind whatthe reviews say about IQ (image quality) i defy most folk using prosumer cams to do better than the results out of the camera . If you are not going to make lage prints why bother with it - most images are put on the internet email televisions magic frames etc.
I'm not saying don't tweek or straighten perspective with PP software but the use most folk put their pic to don't need RAW to start with - the cam does that ! The best photos are 'probably' not technically perfect which todays pixel peepers seem to miss - IMHO

So your camera never gets the wrong exposure or white balance setting?
Shooting in raw means you can change white balance without degrading image quality at all. Also you have more colour depth so if you do under or over expose then you can often bring out some missing detail that you won't be able to do with jpeg.
 
never mind whatthe reviews say about IQ (image quality) i defy most folk using prosumer cams to do better than the results out of the camera

Is that a Ken Rockwell quote?

Anybody with a reasonable level of editing skill can better the OOC result, have you actually given it a try?

That sort of blanket statement can give newcomers to raw such as the OP a completely wrong idea and to be completely candid you are wrong, that's not just my opinion, but a demonstrable fact
 
Last edited:
NO - but if you know better than the software guys at Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al in converting captured images (raw if you must) then tell us - you have to be very very good to do better than the camera - never mind whatthe reviews say about IQ (image quality) i defy most folk using prosumer cams to do better than the results out of the camera . If you are not going to make lage prints why bother with it - most images are put on the internet email televisions magic frames etc.
I'm not saying don't tweek or straighten perspective with PP software but the use most folk put their pic to don't need RAW to start with - the cam does that ! The best photos are 'probably' not technically perfect which todays pixel peepers seem to miss - IMHO

The very reason I use RAW is that in almost every situation, I can process and produce a significantly better image than a JPEG from the camera. I use my prints for galleries and I also print to canvas. I am no PP wizard, in fact I am a relative novice, but I know the result I desire and the camera's own product rarely does the biz. I accept that for web and e-mail purposes, JPEG can be sufficient, but why would I wish to send a poor quality JPEG sample to a prospective purchaser of a quality print produced from RAW?
 
Raw -Always edit in 16bit format opposed to 8bit for keeping noise down in bringing detail of of the shadows.
 
NO - but if you know better than the software guys at Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al in converting captured images (raw if you must) then tell us - you have to be very very good to do better than the camera

When the hardware guys at Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al can cram a quadcore CPU and enough memory for software similar to Adobe inside the camera then I may let the camera decide and process my image. Until then I will use a computer and adjust until it is exactly what I wanted.
Even comparing a raw processed with Lightroom 2 rerun through Lightroom 4 shows what extra can be obtained from the original. A jpg taken at the same time is essentially stuck that way.
 
Personally, I only ever shoot raw now because I like having the flexibility. I've occasionally tried shooting jpg's with my 40D and been pleased with how it handles them, but for my uses I see no need to make the camera throw away data and process the image itself, even if it can do a good job most of the time. I have enough card space and the raw buffer on my 40D is large enough that shooting jpg has no in the field advantages for me, and whether I shoot raw or jpg I always spend time processing my images, so it adds minimal time there. Sure it takes up more hard disk space, but memory isn't expensive these days.

I think a lot of the "only shoot raw" brigade would be surprised how good jpg's can be, a couple of my friends shoot jpg and produce stunning images because it suits them. It depends on your disposition and what you require from the images. If you like to (or for pros that need the best possible quality as income depends on it) tinker with your images until they're spotless, raw is going to offer that extra flexibility, but if you want to streamline your workflow with minimal time spent processing, jpg's give you a file that 9 times out of 10 requires less time and expertise (not that you can't spend time on a jpg if you want to).
 
Last edited:
I can't remember where I read this, but it seems quite a sensible way of looking at the great RAW Jpeg debate.

RAW files are your negatives, jpegs are your prints back from a high street printer. You have very little control over the prints that Megasnap Co. send you back but they are usually pretty good. However if you want total control over how your prints(jpegs) turn out you do all the darkroom work yourself in Camera Raw etc.

This usually starts the Photoshop is evil debate, but photographers have always edited negatives to produce the prints they want, so why not use a computer instead of the dark arts of the darkroom.

It all boils down are you happy with the jpeg images your camera produces, and do you have the time to process all the raw files you shoot?
 
i was reading somewhere about this debate and someone said it all depends on what photo's your taking at the time... if your just out shooting general photos of nothing then jpg will do just fine... BUT if your doing a photo shoot like wedding or something then its always best practise to shoot in raw as you have more control over the finished photo afterwords..

why shoot raw if its not an important photo & its just a photo of a flower in the garden.. if it fails so what you lose a flower thats it.. but when shooting for something as important as a wedding you need a raw image to make the adjustments needed....

dunno if this is right or wrong its just *** i read & to be honest sounds good advise as shooting raw all the time ya gunna need a flippin big backup drive....



watch this clip from 5.15 to find out more..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qTSNtrDZbc
 
Last edited:
Wow - that was great - an up-to-date view of the raw/jpg debate which has been seen over every forum many times. In summary it seems if the images are important
go RAW+JPG if not go JPG if in doubt again go both - I only stuck in the spanner because i have been try to emulate the JPG's from my Nikon in several PP software and failed to be honest and i think most folk will feel the same (not you pros of course) but i have a business making medal frames where the medals and the end frame with the medals in it has to be imaged. I don't have time to PP in detail each medal in a frame so jpg is fine (thats not intended to be a pun) . The quality i get from the cam is perfectly suitable for my purpose and i don't lose sleep over whatever lower quality i produce.
 
If one takes a RAW image and just use automatic software conversion then likely the Jpeg would have been better.

However when one takes a RAW image and manually you select what you want to do with the image then one can as one would expect get more from a 16 bit RAW image than a 8 bit Jpeg.

My camera has many options. You can take RAW and Jpeg but why when the camera will also produce the same Jpeg from the RAW image latter if you decide you want the camera to convert for you.

The problem with RAW is the time taken to write to card and if you are taking a series of shots you can find the camera will pause while writing to disk. This is even worst if using RAW and Jpeg.

I have with CS4 selected a RAW image and produced two Jpeg images then loaded them into layers opened a mask and used apply to merge them together to get a form of local tone mapping. I could have taken two Jpeg images and merged in same way but likely would need a tripod and also need to align the images.

Manually the adjustment brush in Camera RAW 5.7 can work far better than dodge and burn however one can still open a Jpeg in Camera RAW 5.7 so the way the program works is really no advantage.

I have found that Pentax RAW (PEF) uses less memory than Adobe RAW (DNG) and that with PEF files one can just erase the side car to return to orignal but with DNG no side car is produced so harder to return to orignal.

Clearly there is a difference between the different RAW formats and using other makes the advantage between RAW and Jpeg may be different.

There was an argument when doing my "A" level over what could be submitted for use in the exam. We were to take in unaltered images and I questioned how any Jpeg could be considered as unaltered? When converting in camera I can select recorded pixels, Quality level, White Balance, Sensitivity, Image Tone, Saturation, Sharpness, and Contract. OK not as much as I can do in Photoshop but clearly I am altering the image. The college Nikon had pre-set functions which could be set to sport and a host of other pre-sets which altered things like Sharpness as well as balance between speed, aperture, and ISO. To me using these per-set functions or altering the conversion from 16 bit to 8 bit in any way was cheating. However some cameras did not have the RAW option so it was impracticable to require all entries to be in RAW format.

With the Nikon pre-set functions it may be that the automatic camera processing is better than the automatic Camera RAW 5.7 processing as clearly the Camera RAW 5.7 does not know what type of photo it's looking at but the Nikon does as you have selected it on the dial.

However with my Pentax the camera has other functions available on my thumb wheels and dials which I prefer to the Nikon gimmick. But my point is RAW v Jpeg is different according to make and model of camera and for me as a Pentax user to tell a Nikon user that RAW is better is clearly wrong.

As I read the comments I have also read what cameras are used. For example "redddraggon" has stated "Adobe and Apple software don't read the in camera adjustments in the raw" which may be true for Nikon which can only save in Nikon's own RAW format but with my Pentax which can save in DNG format likely it can read the camera adjustments. Well I know it can as they are all listed in Bridge.

I think from my reply you can see I like RAW. But I would not try to say it's better with other makes. Since most the answers from Nikon users seem to like Jpeg maybe there is something about Nikon which does not lend itself to RAW?
 
The problem is, not a lot of people (including quite a few on this thread ;)) actually understand how to process raw files. A raw file is the cameras capture of the image sensor. The JPEG it produces is the development of that raw data using algorithms known only to the camera maker. They are approximated to by other software packages (e.g. Adobe), but only truly emulated if you use the manufacturers software to develop raw into JPEG.

Having said that, there is no correct development setting. You can develop images in 10001 ways and they are all correct, but, unlike a mathematical problem, there is no unique correct way to develop a photo. Starting with a RAW file gives you the ability to do more with the image than starting with a JPEG will do. However, if the JPEG style you use (e.g. standard, landscape, portrait, natural etc... on Canon) captures exactly the processing you want to do then you are going to gain very little by shooting RAW.

If you want to do something more advanced or arty e.g. recover blown highlights, push the saturations of the reds and blues in the scene, or convert to black and white whilst selecting custom proportions of RG & B to contribute to the conversion, then starting with RAW is going to be a far more flexible starting point. Yes, it involves more work processing each image, but that is the cost of starting with a negative rather than the finished print as someone puts it.

Bottom line is using RAW is more flexible. It will take more time, but you can process things in different ways depending on the subject. Shooting in JPEG is fine if you only ever want the standard processing, but it is definitely not as flexible. Neither is right, neither is wrong, just shoot which you prefer.

Me: I shoot RAW 100% of the time. I understand my post processing flow and know I need to post process the photos I take. However, I have two modes: shooting of products in the studio (where the environment is very controlled) and there I will tweak minimally but with a defined workflow (including custom colour correction via an Xrite passport) or I'm out taking photos in which case I'm probably only developing half a dozen shots from the 60 or so I actually shot. If I were doing quick portrait photography where throughput was importnt, I'd definitely be shooting JPEG, although I may customise the in-camera development to suit.
 
If you take RAW + Jpeg, and open the RAW file in a 3rd party RAW processing program then it will look dull, flat, and maybe a bit unsharp, because those things were set during the Jpeg conversion process in the camera. If you open the RAW file in the manufacturers own processing software then it should look exactly the same as the Jpeg out of the camera, because the software applies the same settings as the camera would have.

Why even use the manufacturers RAW, or indeed any processing software then? Because I know what the scene looked like, I know how sharp I want the image to be, and indeed I know what I want the final image to look like, be that accurate or changed for effect. The settings the camera applies are a guess at the White Balance, though normally a very good guess, and a load of blanket settings applied that don't take into account what the subject is. :shrug:

There is more information in a RAW file if you choose to take advantage of it. The analogy of the RAW being the equivalent of a film negative and the Jpeg being thought of as a 'print' is a good one in broad terms. Although I think there is a lot that can be done to optimise the Jpeg in camera, not many take advantage of that from experience.

When it comes to processing and being better 'Canon Nikon Sony Panasonic et al', like I said, I know what the scene looked like. My computer and the software I use to process files are more powerful than the cameras inbuilt processing. My computer and software is upgradeable, my camera is locked at the point it was released for processing power, (and maybe at the technology point a year or two prior to release) and may or may not get a firmware upgrade after it was released, and even then that is to fix bugs, rather than give new features most of the time.

Nobody needs to shoot RAW, no matter what anyone says, the same as being told to only shoot in manual mode, but there can be advantages to RAW capture. If you can be bothered to have a go it costs nothing to try, :shrug: and by shooting RAW + Jpeg you can try it out without the penalty of losing a shot.


And just to add, you don't have to process every RAW file you capture, just the ones you want to print or show. If you edit the Jpegs you print or show now, then you're doing just about the same amount of work with a RAW file. And without the extra compression cycle of editing a Jpeg, which can be negligible to be honest, but could be significant if you do multiple edit a re-saves on the same file. (not good a good idea anyway)

But if you can't be bothered with RAW files, at least try to use the cameras inbuilt features, Picture Styles, appropriate White Balances etc, to get the best the camera can give you. They will hopefully improve what comes out the camera as a Jpeg. :)
 
Back
Top