radio trigger issues

jamesoliverstone

jamesoliverstone

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I am hoping someone could shed some light on this, as the internet is coming up with nothing!

I have used a set of yunguo rf602 triggers now for at least 2 or so years without any issues whatsoever on my d700, but now I have swapped to the sony a77, they are less than reliable.

I am getting some weird results.

On the D700 I could sync all day long at 1/200th but I would get the curtain in the shot at 1/250th (even though the d700 is capable of this) and i just put it down to them being cheap and therefore not capable of 1/250th.

On the A77, I get the shutter in the shot at 1/160th and up!

If I drop to 1/125th I can get a clean shot.

I did some testing and found that at 1/160 and 1/200 every 3rd or 4th frame will be clean, but I seem to randomly get the shutter in the top of the shot at varying amounts.

So, I turned off the in camera stabilisation and I can now shoot at 1/160th cleanly, but 1/200 will show the curtain again.

Now, I assume that SLT cameras might work differently?

Basically, I need to get my sync speed to at least 1/200th or 1/250 ideally, and i have read up on the RF602 and it says that they should be able to do it fine...

I have spent a fortune gearing myself for this years huge amount of travel so I dont want to spend out on pocket wizards when i am sure I can get the job done somehow with these.

Does anyone have any ideas on this?

I dont understand why I am getting such random results...

Cheers in advance all :D
 
Sounds like the A77 is tripping the flash contact at a different point in the exposure depending on the IS settings.

Which is kind of surprising - but not all that.

If that's the case then Pocket Wizards may not help unless you get the hyper sync ones. Have you tried the Sony with a cable?
 
James, have you got the camera set to rear curtain or slow-sync? This could be one issue... although it wouldn't account for the irregular 1-in-4 hit at max sync...
 
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JonathanRyan said:
Sounds like the A77 is tripping the flash contact at a different point in the exposure depending on the IS settings.

Which is kind of surprising - but not all that.

If that's the case then Pocket Wizards may not help unless you get the hyper sync ones. Have you tried the Sony with a cable?
Click to expand...

Yeah it is weird. I read up on the internet about the in camera IS mucking about with sync speeds. I haven't got a sync cable to test it unfortunately. I will borrow one from a mate... thats a good idea to rule out the triggers or the camera.

specialman said:
James, have you got the camera set to rear curtain or slow-sync? This could be one issue... although it wouldn't account for the irregular 1-in-4 hit at max sync...
Click to expand...
Hmmm, not sure, I shall fire it up and have a look.
 
Right just checked and its all set as it should be. With everything set to manual and all additional settings switched off, I tested it a 1/200th again and the first 4 came out fine, then the 5th was half covered, then the 6th was fine and the 7th, 8th, and 9th all came out half covered... its totally random!

I can't possibly use this out in the field so I will have to find a solution to this asap.

first things first, I shall replace the batteries in the transmitter and receivers and see if that helps...
 
specialman said:
Phottix Strato II - superb - £55 for a TX + RX and I think it's £30 per extra RX (calumet clone versions).
Click to expand...

I will check it out thanks.

To be honest this is the first time I have ever had issues with them, and I have used them in anger everywhere from the studio, to the african heat and the humidity of the jungle (perhaps it was that last one that killed it :D)
 
Have you tried brand new batteries?

I had a play with some of these triggers and had similar issues with my 5d2, a new set of batts and it seemed to sync properly :thinking:

I personally use seculine twinlink triggers, great range and 100% fire rate but not exactly dirt cheap....but not pocket wizard expensive either.
 
digitalfailure said:
Have you tried brand new batteries?

I had a play with some of these triggers and had similar issues with my 5d2, a new set of batts and it seemed to sync properly :thinking:

I personally use seculine twinlink triggers, great range and 100% fire rate but not exactly dirt cheap....but not pocket wizard expensive either.
Click to expand...

Right just got back from Tesco, plugged in a brand new CR2 and bang, 1/200th every time. Even though the other battery has plenty of juice in it, I guess as soon as they start to lose it yo start to get very inconsistent results.

Well, at £1 for an energiser cr2, I bought 5 and shoved them in my camera bag :D

Thats that mystery solved... :thumbs:
 
Very fresh batteries helps, as does super duper lithiums aaa in the receivers.

However, the mega thread over on strobist for the 602s has a lot of info on slower speeds out of 602s from anything apart from Can/Nik. So your problem may come back.

Apparently, it helps if you press down on the test button while taking a shot, and then it gives full sync. Try this to be sure in the future.
 
I had problems with the curtain showing in shots on my D700 at my last shoot. I lowered the shutter speed for the rest of the session, which cured the issue, then tried fresh batteries in the transmitter and receivers when I got home.

Instant return to 1/200 sec sync speeds, which made me very happy after suspecting camera problems in the first instance!
 
I've had some weirdness with 602s apparently drifting in synchronisation. They would fire the flash later and later and eventually after the shutter had closed. Without chomping this is really hard to spot.....

On advice from my assistant (who is supposed to know things like this), removing the battery from the trigger for a full minute seems to fix this and any other issues. The basic "drop all batteries for 10 seconds to drain the bad magic" doesn't help. I can't even begin to figure out an explanation for that.....

I guess there's a reason Pocket Wizards cost so much......
 
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JonathanRyan said:
I guess there's a reason Pocket Wizards cost so much......
Click to expand...

but that's the thing, I never had these issues until I swapped from Nikon to sony, so perhaps the issue lies there...

Also, I like your reason for editing the post... But I am all for finding cheaper solutions rather than spending out cash that could be better spent in bars in the countries I travel too ;)
 
jamesoliverstone said:
Also, I like your reason for editing the post... But I am all for finding cheaper solutions rather than spending out cash that could be better spent in bars in the countries I travel too ;)
Click to expand...

:)

Actually - how are you using the triggers on a Sony? Do you have a proper converter or did you shave off enough for a couple of beers and get an eBay one? :D I'm not sure I understand how but that might be causing an issue.

And....in lecturing mode.....if you're traveling to developing countries then please bring the dud batteries back. Visitors taking disposable batteries to countries that can't deal with them are a massive pollution issue.
 
I have this problem with the 5d mk2 .... Can't get it above 1/125.... Ever
 
stumac said:
I have this problem with the 5d mk2 .... Can't get it above 1/125.... Ever
Click to expand...

I'd have thought 1/160th would have been achievable, even with cheap triggers that often have a delay, but the 5D2 has a maximum sync speed of 1/200th so you should be able to eek out a third stop more (1/160th) - maybe batteries are also required for you sir? :)
 
I've tried everything don't know what it's problem is
 
My 5dII gives 1/200th 95% on 602s with good cr2s and energizer lithium in slaves.

There may be variations in production span though.
 
Kris said:
My 5dII gives 1/200th 95% on 602s with good cr2s and energizer lithium in slaves.

There may be variations in production span though.
Click to expand...

Try it at full power, might not be quite clean. Fine at 1/8th and less.

And just for fun, try it with 602 triggered from the PC socket ;) You need an older transmitter for this though - latest ones have the PC port removed from the transmitter.
 
JonathanRyan said:
And....in lecturing mode.....if you're traveling to developing countries then please bring the dud batteries back. Visitors taking disposable batteries to countries that can't deal with them are a massive pollution issue.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I am well aware of this :thumbs:
 
i cant be sure as i`m at work and cant test, but i`m sure i can shoot at 1/250th on my `
D300s with RF602s
 
specialman said:
Phottix Strato II - superb - £55 for a TX + RX and I think it's £30 per extra RX (calumet clone versions).
Click to expand...

Where is that from Pat?
 
JonathanRyan said:
Somebody needs to test these pronto. http://www.viewfinderphotography.co...edlite-and-Studio-Flash-Wireless-Trigger.html

I'm currently testing a trigger system based on the same tech (but NOT the same trigger) and I'm getting scarily high sync speeds.
Click to expand...
How can that happen?
Other than minimising system delay, or even reversing it slightly, the limitation with FP shutters has to be the physical speed of the camera shutter - I can't see how any radio trigger can overcome the fact that the shutter needs to be fully open when the flash fires.
 
Oh no, sorry. This is how rumours start. I'm talking about propagation delay.

The OP mentioned that he's topping out at 1/160 on a 602. This fits with my findings - the cheap triggers generally limit the sync fairly low. 1/160 isn't unusual and 1/250 is pretty much your max. Of course that doesn’t really matter if it's faster than your camera sync speed.

But IF you have a camera capable of syncing faster (I have a few) AND your flash duration is short enough then you're still snookered by cheap triggers. Even my PW Plus IIs only go up to 1/500. A friend reckons he's getting very nice results with Skyports though - they sync higher than the manufacturer claims :)
 
JonathanRyan said:
A friend reckons he's getting very nice results with Skyports though - they sync higher than the manufacturer claims :)
Click to expand...

If I understand you correctly then that would be contrary to my experience with SkyPorts. 1Ds3 and 1d3 both a maximum of 1/160th with 580ex2 flashes. Any higher and I get a black bar at the bottom.

Regards...
Steve
 
Finste said:
If I understand you correctly then that would be contrary to my experience with SkyPorts. 1Ds3 and 1d3 both a maximum of 1/160th with 580ex2 flashes. Any higher and I get a black bar at the bottom.

Regards...
Steve
Click to expand...

But is that propagation delay or the cameras? Swap the triggers for a cord to see which it is.
 
Finste said:
If I understand you correctly then that would be contrary to my experience with SkyPorts. 1Ds3 and 1d3 both a maximum of 1/160th with 580ex2 flashes. Any higher and I get a black bar at the bottom.

Regards...
Steve
Click to expand...

Elinchrom Skyport Speed will sync at 1/250sec.
 
HoppyUK said:
Elinchrom Skyport Speed will sync at 1/250sec.
Click to expand...

My skyports are the originals, bought a couple of months after they became available. That is some years ago now. Its quite possible that the newer ones, Speed is newer right?, have been improved over mine.

@Jonathan
I'll try with the sync cable tonight but may have to substitute a studio strobe for the 580 as I don't have the connectors to fire a flashgun via a cable.

Steve
 
JonathanRyan said:
But is that propagation delay or the cameras? Swap the triggers for a cord to see which it is.
Click to expand...

Tried both ways, skyport and sync cord with a Bowens Esprit II. Same problem with Skyport but sync cord went right up to 250th with no problem. Didn't see the black bar until 320th with the cord. As I mentioned previously, these are very old skyports. Your friend may have newer improved models.

Steve
 
ok this is strange, i know my upper limit for my olympus E3 flash sync is 1/250th, pop up and speedlight, got a cable for my hanhel radio triggers to connect to my strobes, remembered this thread and tried pushing the shutter speed to see what happens, well i got up to 1/500th and once at 1/600th!!?? before the black bar of doom lol i know my camera doesn't have "trick mode" sync or high speed sync for that matter, or electronic shutter. how is this???
 
Simon photo said:
ok this is strange, i know my upper limit for my olympus E3 flash sync is 1/250th, pop up and speedlight, got a cable for my hanhel radio triggers to connect to my strobes, remembered this thread and tried pushing the shutter speed to see what happens, well i got up to 1/500th and once at 1/600th!!?? before the black bar of doom lol i know my camera doesn't have "trick mode" sync or high speed sync for that matter, or electronic shutter. how is this???
Click to expand...

Sounds like you've somehow managed to hook up to the tail of the flash, though that doesn't fit with the black bar appearing.

What flash, what power settings, how much light are you getting compared to at 1/250sec, is the exposure even top to bottom, post a pic!

Basically, with a focal plane shutter it's not possible, as you've stated it. You might be able to squeeze a bit more than spec, but not that much.
 
What Richard says - I'll bet it's a lot less powerful flash than it should be.
 
Interestingly a quick Google brought up this pertaining to the E3

You must have a Oly flash, a 50r or 36r. Mount the flash and enter FP manual mode, take a picture at 500 or 1000th of a second. Remember flash must be in MANUAL MODE FP. Take any picture, then trun off the flash. Next place your wireless trigger on the hot shoe and you got it! Until you turn the camera of you can sync at any speeds with any flash at any duration.
Click to expand...

:shrug:
 
hmmm interesting! Never had an olympus flash so that's completely new to me!
Will get a pic when i get chance.
But i am using neewer 250di strobes (ebay specials but i like them) olympus E3, hanhel combi tf wireless trigger. I haven't experimented at those speeds with the sync cable, multiple flash, or power settings, but the strobe was at minimum power, and i just kept ramping up the shutter speed until i got the bar, across the bottom, exposure was dropping with every ev step. I was in live view, not sure if that makes difference?
The strobes are 250w, and are far more powerful than my speedlights, i have yet to use them at maximum power, when i do my meter gives me ridiculous readings i cannot match lol
 
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