Quick, everyone in here and make millions

Fair comment, but it doesn't make him wrong.

I would say that most photographers earn far less than they should, for the reasons he's given. They basically fail to separate hobby interest from business interest, and the business becomes a lifestyle business that can only just survive and that entirely depends on just one person.

It doesn't have to be like that.
 
Ok. Uber successful photographer that no one's ever heard of, creates a blog telling everyone how to be as successful as he is.

Sure.

You know what? If I was as commercially successful as he claims to be, I'd not be arsing around with blogs about how to be successful.

Think about it.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Ok. Uber successful photographer that no one's ever heard of, creates a blog telling everyone how to be as successful as he is.

Sure.

You know what? If I was as commercially successful as he claims to be, I'd not be arsing around with blogs about how to be successful.

Think about it.
Click to expand...

But how many modern photographers are famous these days?

Back in the day even the man in the street had heard of David Bailey, Justin de Villeneuve (he invented "Twiggy"), Cecil Beaton, Harrison Marks ("Artistic studies" - for which he was often arrested!), Norman Parkinson.

But which contemporary photographers does the ordinary person know about these days?

They probably know more about who was voted off of "Big Brother"!
.
 
petersmart said:
But how many modern photographers are famous these days?
.
Click to expand...


I'm not the general public though, and I can list you contemporary photographers for ages without pausing... still never heard of this dude, and now having seen his work, I know why.

There are still famous photographers: Testino, Kander, Rankin et al. I'd be willing to bet more people than you realise will trot at least those three names out.
 
I'd struggle to name 10 famous photographers without really giving it some thought !!!

I've never taken much notice of others, or the 'greats', and I'm really crap at names anyway, I'd swear several of the above I've never heard of too

The guy in the article makes perfectly valid points IF you have a specific high paying market that you can sell in, the advice most useful to most is how to find that kind of market, and no-one shares that info

Dave
 
petersmart said:
But how many modern photographers are famous these days?

Back in the day even the man in the street had heard of David Bailey, Justin de Villeneuve (he invented "Twiggy"), Cecil Beaton, Harrison Marks ("Artistic studies" - for which he was often arrested!), Norman Parkinson.
Click to expand...

Most people will have heard of Annie Leibovitz, Mario Testino, Rankin, and Terry Richardson. Leibovitz was even mentioned in an episode of Friends.
 
DG Phototraining said:
I'd struggle to name 10 famous photographers without really giving it some thought !!!
Click to expand...


No offence, but I'm surprised by that... what with you being a photographer and all. Do you not read about photography?

As Lloyd said above... most people will be able to list at least a handful I reckon, even if it is only Rankin, Testino, and of course Leibovitz.


DG Phototraining said:
I've never taken much notice of others, or the 'greats',
Click to expand...

Again... no offence intended, but that I see as a failing. If you're operating in a cultural vacuum, against what are you measuring yourself? How do you even know if you are "good" (for want of a more appropriate word)?
 
Never heard of any of those David and im a photographer, and why do we need to measure ourselves against anyone is beyond me, but if it pleases you then mines bigger than yours.

Isn't this all a bit high brow, like the South Bank Show kinda thing
 
Last edited:
Gary Coyle said:
Isn't this all a bit high brow, like the South Bank Show kinda thing
Click to expand...


'nuff said.


How do you know you are good Gary?

Either A) You compare your images to those taken by others, or....

B) Others, who have compared your work to that of others have told you it is good.

Whether directly, or by proxy.... your work will be measured against that of others. Fact. You can either cut out the middle man or not as it suits you, but there's no escape.


Your standpoint is just inverse snobbery: A kind of working class, reactionary hatred of anything intellectual that seems to be the de facto mindset in here. Why would anyone wear their ignorance with pride?


I don't understand.
 
Last edited:
Gary Coyle said:
Never heard of any of those David and im a photographer, and why do we need to measure ourselves against anyone is beyond me, but if it pleases you then mines bigger than yours.

Isn't this all a bit high brow, like the South Bank Show kinda thing
Click to expand...

I'm glad its not just me Gary :)

And the answer to do I not read about other photographers is a simple - NO - I don't

I'm hardly in a vacuum either as my preference is for Weddings, Portraits and Landscapes to which I'm in some great FB Forums showing me great images every day from peeps all over the world. Do I know who any of them are? Not really

I, like everyone else, is bombarded with images every day without ever knowing who shot them



FruitFlakes said:
Most people will have heard of Annie Leibovitz, Mario Testino, Rankin, and Terry Richardson
Click to expand...

Annie I've heard of due to her troubles, Mario only recently re the Royals I think, Rankin I've heard of but couldn't think of an image of his off the top of my head, but if I google him then yes and Terry - err who

A very good pal of mine was shocked recently to discover I have NO books by ANY photographer other than ones on 'How to', he's a keen amateur who says he has dozens of them and he loves them but he freely admits to being a crap photographer (which he is)

Does it really matter? I obviously don't think it does

Dave
 
Pookeyhead said:
Your standpoint is just inverse snobbery: A kind of working class, reactionary hatred of anything intellectual that seems to be the de facto mindset in here. Why would anyone wear their ignorance with pride?
Click to expand...

Bit harsh ??? :(

I'm not proud I don't know, nor care, who these 'greats' are - I just don't care, nor do I understand all the inner meaning people see in art/photos sometimes

Generally, for me an image just - is - and I either like it or I don't - I don't search for meaning in them and as an RPS member I see many explanations of images and I still don't understand what they are getting at !!! I used to wonder if that was a failing in me, but over time I've learned that I don't need to understand an image to like it or not

Dave
 
I never asked if you read about other photographers. I asked if you ever read about photography.

DG Phototraining said:
Bit harsh ??? :(

I'm not proud I don't know, nor care, who these 'greats' are - I just don't care, nor do I understand all the inner meaning people see in art/photos sometimes

Generally, for me an image just - is - and I either like it or I don't - I don't search for meaning in them and as an RPS member I see many explanations of images and I still don't understand what they are getting at !!! I used to wonder if that was a failing in me, but over time I've learned that I don't need to understand an image to like it or not

Dave
Click to expand...

Why are you answering for Gary?
 
Last edited:
DG Phototraining said:
With all the mentioning names I took it to mean that

Do I read about photography - yes all the time - all how to though not why

Dave
Click to expand...

I don't mean "how to" material. They're just instruction manuals.

It's OK... you've answered all my questions.
 
DG Phototraining said:
A very good pal of mine was shocked recently to discover I have NO books by ANY photographer other than ones on 'How to', he's a keen amateur who says he has dozens of them and he loves them but he freely admits to being a crap photographer (which he is)
Click to expand...

I am in a similar position musically. Some of my musician friends were surprised to discover that I have an almost non existent record collection whereas most of them have huge collections. I love live music but am not really interested in recorded music.

Pookeyhead said:
How do you know you are good Gary?

Either A) You compare your images to those taken by others, or....

B) Others, who have compared your work to that of others have told you it is good.
Click to expand...

Whilst it would surprise me if a photographer was not aware of at least some other photographers in a similar field, it's not necessary to compare them to see 'how good you are'. Some people just do photography for a hobby and don't need to know this.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
I am in a similar position musically. Some of my musician friends were surprised to discover that I have an almost non existent record collection whereas most of them have huge collections. I love live music but am not really interested in recorded music.
Click to expand...


But can you name any famous contemporary musicians?
 
It doesn't matter who has or hasn't heard of this guy
It doesn't matter whether his work is good or not
It doesn't matter whether he is making the amount of money he claims to be making or not, none of these things affect the basic truth of what he is saying, i.e. that photography as a business needs to be run in a businesslike way, with profit as the measurement of success - nobody will grow rich, or even feed their family, by working insane hours for low profit, and nobody will be successful just because they gain job satisfaction or because their mates think that their work is good.
 
DG Phototraining said:
I'd struggle to name 10 famous photographers without really giving it some thought !!!
Click to expand...

Today, Don McCullin, Annie Leibovitz, Rankin, Salgado, Steve McCurry, Anne Geddes, Michael Kenna, Joe McNally, Allan Sekula, Hong Hao, Mishka Henner, Tom Hunter
But then I go to exhibitions, look at other work.

Older ones, could you not name Cartier-Bresson, Ansel Adams, Dorothea Lange, Diane Arbus, Robert Capa, Richard Avedon, Irving Penn, Helmut Newton, David Bailey, Terry Richardson, Martin Parr, Peter Dench, Chris Steele-Perkins, Tony Ray-Jones, Walker Evans, Weegee, Maplethorpe, Winnogrand, Sally Mann, Nan Goldin...Gursky - everyones favourite to quote,

From the top of my head - all famous, all produced memorable images which you probably know.
 
Garry Edwards said:
It doesn't matter who has or hasn't heard of this guy
It doesn't matter whether his work is good or not
It doesn't matter whether he is making the amount of money he claims to be making or not, none of these things affect the basic truth of what he is saying, i.e. that photography as a business needs to be run in a businesslike way, with profit as the measurement of success - nobody will grow rich, or even feed their family, by working insane hours for low profit, and nobody will be successful just because they gain job satisfaction or because their mates think that their work is good.
Click to expand...


ANyone running a business, or thinking of doing so, who also needs to pay this dude for his "wisdom" really shouldn't be in business though. It's just common sense.
 
Pookeyhead said:
ANyone running a business, or thinking of doing so, who also needs to pay this dude for his "wisdom" really shouldn't be in business though. It's just common sense.
Click to expand...
You're right. But that isn't the point either.
 
He wrote a blog saying that to run a business, you have to run it like a business. Brilliant.

Then what is the point?
 
Garry Edwards said:
It doesn't matter who has or hasn't heard of this guy
It doesn't matter whether his work is good or not
It doesn't matter whether he is making the amount of money he claims to be making or not, none of these things affect the basic truth of what he is saying, i.e. that photography as a business needs to be run in a businesslike way, with profit as the measurement of success - nobody will grow rich, or even feed their family, by working insane hours for low profit, and nobody will be successful just because they gain job satisfaction or because their mates think that their work is good.
Click to expand...
Exactly. That, and you also need an awesome sounding name like Bradford so people will remember you.

Think I'll see about changing mine to Pontefract or thereabouts...
 
Byker28i said:
all famous, all produced memorable images which you probably know.
Click to expand...

Most likely I'd recognise some of their images - but from your list I can't recall having heard of these...

Salgado, Steve McCurry, Michael Kenna, Allan Sekula, Hong Hao, Mishka Henner, Tom Hunter or these Dorothea Lange, Diane Arbus, Terry Richardson, Peter Dench, Chris Steele-Perkins, Tony Ray-Jones, Walker Evans, Weegee, Maplethorpe, Winnogrand, Sally Mann, Nan Goldin...Gursky

I remember images well, I just don't remember at all who took them

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
Most likely I'd recognise some of their images - but from your list I can't recall having heard of these...

Salgado, Steve McCurry, Michael Kenna, Allan Sekula, Hong Hao, Mishka Henner, Tom Hunter or these Dorothea Lange, Diane Arbus, Terry Richardson, Peter Dench, Chris Steele-Perkins, Tony Ray-Jones, Walker Evans, Weegee, Maplethorpe, Winnogrand, Sally Mann, Nan Goldin...Gursky

I remember images well, I just don't remember at all who took them

Dave
Click to expand...

So you have seen them... read about them... You are aware of them. You are informed by their work in some way then. You are not in a vacuum at all. You're just crap at remembering names.
 
strumstrum said:
from the bottom of the blog



I would have thought Timothy Greenfield-Sanders would have that slot??
Click to expand...


Just goes to show you... you can put any old s**t on your website and people will believe you. This guy's just trying to do the whole Peter Lik thing: Pretending to be hugely successful, when in reality, he's s**t. Have you seen Bradford's work? **** me it's bad. I mean... seriously, laughingly bad.
 
$70,000 in 24 hours producing this? That's over $25 million a year at that rate.

View attachment 43529

Sorry.... but I know bull**** when I sniff it.
 
Last edited:
Pookeyhead said:
'nuff said.

How do you know you are good Gary?

Either A) You compare your images to those taken by others, or....

B) Others, who have compared your work to that of others have told you it is good.
Click to expand...
I dont have to be good do i????? if so who says so?????

In the field i chose to shoot my images sold, good enough for me, yes, good enough for you or anyone else, i really dont give a dogs turd.

Pookeyhead said:
Your standpoint is just inverse snobbery: A kind of working class, reactionary hatred of anything intellectual that seems to be the de facto mindset in here. Why would anyone wear their ignorance with pride?
I don't understand.
Click to expand...

Wear my ignorance with pride!!!!!, ignorance suggests a lack of knowledge/understanding, i simply choose NOT to get into the poncy world of Photography is high brow art, to you it might be, to me it isn't.

Ive had a peek at some of those guys work and im really not impressed, its a photograph at the end of the day, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Last edited:
Gary Coyle said:
She was much better when she was in the Eurythmics
Click to expand...

Yeah, maybe, but then she got married, changed her name, stopped taking pics and took up busking for a living:D
.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Ive had a peek at some of those guys work and im really not impressed, its a photograph at the end of the day, nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

Oh it can be a lot, lot less:D
.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Ok. Uber successful photographer that no one's ever heard of, creates a blog telling everyone how to be as successful as he is.
Think about it.
Click to expand...

Incidentally Uber is now valued at approx. $50 BILLION!
.
 
DG Phototraining said:
But has yet to make a profit - how does that work ???

Dave
Click to expand...

Raise more money on the current valuation, go public, get a shedload of cash and hope Apple or another forward looking company buys you out - and owe the banks so much money they daren't let you go under!

The way the stock markets are at the moment there's another big crash coming soon.

So stash your cash under your mattress.
.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Ive had a peek at some of those guys work and im really not impressed, its a photograph at the end of the day, nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

And a book in a language I don't understand is simply a random set of black marks on a white page - nothing more, nothing less. Except those who do understand might find it a great work of literature, or a tour de force of scientific reasoning.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top