Questions about Flash

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petemc

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Pete
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Not Flash Gorden or The Flash, just you're average external flash. Ok so I love my flash. I really find it handy and appreciate how helpful it is. I've been using it for the past year and 7/10 times I feel confident. There are those times where it doesn't seem to work. The basic idea is that you can go outside with a flash gun and get a decently exposed sky nicely exposed person. Is there a perfect setting that 10/10 times will allow me to do this? I normally shoot on Av with the sync speed set to high speed. However, the other week at Knowsley I was getting blown out skies. I don't really get why. I've taken shots at sunset and they just worked. I still find this flash to be rather confusing.
 
Did you have your metering set to centre wieghted or spot Pete? That might cause the sky to get blown if the camera is metering from just a part of the scene and not the whole thing.
 
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A whole bunch of examples where its worked and failed. They were all shot on my 10D so no spot metering. The metering was set to partial on them. EXIF is embedded. Its almost worked on some and I'm wondering whether having a ND filter would help? I've got a wedding in 3 weeks and I don't want to have this issue. Every shot needs to be perfect.
 
I'm not sure there's any garunteed settings TBH Pete. If it's thst crucial I'd be tempted to go manual. At least you've got a couple of weeks to practice before the big day. By leaving the camera in Av it has to first picka shutter speed and then select an flash output. Two opportunities for the processor to get it wrong. Have a go at setting your camera in manual at the cameras fastest sync speed (not using HSS or whatever canon call it) and adjust the aoerture for exposure. Then you can either leave the flash in TTL and let the camera figure it out or practice using the flash in manual too.
 
Just a thought but have a try in manual and meter for the sky. The flash should do the rest for the crowd which would otherwise come out too dark though looking at the size of the crowd there you may struggle to light them all up. You might need to have a play with the flash compensation too before you get it right but it'll stop the sky overexposing.
 
When you have alot of dark colours, especially black, the camera will increase the exposure to compensate, thus blowing out your skies, and when you get alot of white the camera will decrease exposure so you need to compensate accordingly. Basically your metering is always trying to achieve gray, and you need to stop it from doing so.

This will apply to your weading job.

I think I have that right, I could have it in reverse. Usually takes me a couple of shots to adjust when doing stuff like this. And my mind is kind of shutt off right now at work.
 
I tried manual and I couldn't quite get it to work. I got the sky dark but the people were too :(
 
You need to push up the exposure compensation on your flash to light up the people more, or your flash is not powerful enough. If the latter is true you'll just have to put up with blown out skies if you want the people exposed properly. You probvably know this already but make sure you don't have any sort of diffuser on either as this will also reduce power and has no benefit outside.

Franchisejuan you are correct which is why manual is a good option in tricky conditions.
 
Hmmm. I got the Gary Fong Lightsphere partly because it was meant to be quite nice outside. I see most people using a diffuser outside because it reduces the shadows around their eyes without being too powerful. I'd practice now but its 100% gray overcast sky.
 
If you nail the exposure for the sky then the flash would probably get it right for the people closest to you (assuming the flash has got enough juice in the first place) but those behind and any background scenary, etc. would be way under.

An ND grad might be the way to go although it would be a pain to keep adjusting it.
 
Yeah I think an ND grad would be a bit of a pain. So I should use exposure locking, meter for the sky, then point it at a person. All things being super the flash will do its job and good photo? Every time I think I understand the flash I don't. Well, I can use it in darker conditions. I find that easy.
 
Your better off with a diffuser than HSS IMO. The fong will give you a slightly larger light source producing softer light and you might lose 1 stop with it. As soon as you're into HSS territory you lose a lot more power. You only need to look at the guide screen on your flash if it has one to see the difference between HSS output and normal sync speed output.

Try combining manual exposure for the BG and either some flash exposure comp for the foreground or go full on manual on the flash too.
 
ranarama said:
Franchisejuan you are correct which is why manual is a good option in tricky conditions.
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Ok so my brain has not completely stoped working......

So what you need to do with your metering is when it is trying to underexpose, push the EV to - 1 1/3 stops (lots of groomsman in black suits) and when your camera is underexposing you need to increase your EV to + 1 1/3 stops (bride with white dress). For daylight fill you use -1 1/3 stops on flash compensation, for indoors you switch back to nutural flash compensation.

I am pretty sure that is right (been a while since I shot a weading).

Better yet. Take them all in a studio and blast everything with some strobes fitted with soft boxes. Do the whole weading in a studio!!! :lol: :D

Edit: the flash settings are for without a defuser. You loose 1 1/2 stops for a Stofen (or is it 2 stops) and whatever it is for your lightsphere. Though iTTL should compensate for this.
 
LOL I don't think I can do the wedding in a studio :p I wish it was easier but I think I may have to source a model or something before the event just to practice on.
 
petemc said:
LOL I don't think I can do the wedding in a studio :p I wish it was easier but I think I may have to source a model or something before the event just to practice on.
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Don't worry so much about it. The exposure setting I quoted are correct (within 1/3 of a stop), but need to confirm the flash setting. Just take care with watching your histogram while you do the prep and family shots before the ceramony, and but the time you hit the church you should be good.
 
Franchise - yes that's about right but the first point, I presume, was for overexposure. For daylight fill you may want to change settings according to sunlight levels. Bright overhead sunlight will requre more flash to fill in the darker shadows compared to an overcast day where the difference between the shadow and non-shadow areas is much less.

Personally I would ditch any diffuser outside as they scatter light everywhere. They reduce your maximum output and eat battery power. For fill in flash direct works pretty well as it's just filling in the shadows so you don't need a diffuse light as it's not the primary light source.
 
I have to do some graduation photos later in the month, outdoors too. I think I'm going to do a test run first, although knowing my luck the weather will be completely different on the day.
 
petemc said:
Yeah I think an ND grad would be a bit of a pain. So I should use exposure locking, meter for the sky, then point it at a person. All things being super the flash will do its job and good photo? Every time I think I understand the flash I don't. Well, I can use it in darker conditions. I find that easy.
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That's pretty much how I do it, meter for what I'd like correct if I weren't using flash (in this case the sky) then shoot with the flash switched on and it will do magic stuff - tho tweaking the FEC might be necessary depending on conditions. If the light isn't changing much just stick the camera in manual and shoot away with the same settings - but chimp to make sure it's still good.

Outside I use direct flash for fill as (already said) the flash it just lifting the shadows and won't be powerful enough to create new ones.
 
Theres another issue I think. Even if I wasn't shooting a person, cameras often can't get a balanced exposure. Meter for the sky, the building is dark. Meter for the building, sky is dark. Maybe I'm just worrying too much, I dunno.
 
That's more to do with the lattitude (or lack of it) that's available. You've only got around 5 stops to play with so try this.

Take spot reading from the brightest part of the scene (sky I guess).
Take another from the darkest part.

See how many stops difference you've got and find the middle point, adjust up or down based on your own preference/judgement as to what you'd like exposed correctly then let the flash do the rest.
 
Just set AV Mode on the camera, ETTL on the flash, meter for the ambient light and you should be fine. Don't worry about the flash sync speed, that's probably where you're going wrong- the flash will sync with all slower speeds, so don't worry about it unless the shutter speed is really slow when you might get secondary images from the ambient light (after the flash has died away but the shutter is still open)
 
Thats what I've been doing for the most part. Av, ETTL, point and shoot. However, if I want f/2.8 then 1/250 is too long an exposure on a bright day isn't it? From what I've tried anyways, or should I have it on high speed? I'll be posted a bunch that worked tomorrow and they worked well. Maybe I'm just second guessing myself. :shrug:
 
Well you can use hi speed flash Pete. Personally I'd rather stop down a little. A good balance of flash and daylight is going to do more for the appearance of your shots than worrying about a wide aperture. You always have the option of increasing the ISO.
 
I notice that only one of those shots above haven't got a young attractive girl as a main focus ;)
 
Er yeah... funny old world ;) I've added the other shots where I used the flash and they worked over here.
 
you could buy a nikon and set the flash to TTL-BL mode - sorted!:cuckoo:
 
Ok I did some quick tests today. Sun on the left meant the persons face was half in shadow and half bright. Fill-in flash didn't quite fill in. So I tried with the sun behind their head. Fill in flash worked nicely and created a nice glow behind them. I still need practice to get a nice sky, well exposed person without harsh shadows...
 
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