Question about storing film processing chemicals?

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shimada

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I am just about ready to go with my home film processing set up I have everything I need but just wanted to get some final advice on here about a couple of things.

1. Storing film Chemicals: The Chemicals I bought were Ilford D-X, Ilford Ilfostop, Ilford Rapid Fix and Ilford Wetting Agent. It gets really warm in the house so I have put the undiluted chemicals into the shed however I live in Scotland and it gets freezing cold here in the winter. I don't really have a storage place in the middle either in the shed or indoors where it is too hot. Will the chemicals be ok if stored in a shed at low temperatures?

2. I can reuse the mixed Stop & Fix I have 2 large 1 litre vinegar bottles (clear glass) with plastic screw lids. I will only ever be processing either 2 35mm films (max) at a time or 1 120mm film due to the size of my paterson tank. Firstly are the bottles I have suitable for storing chemicals in and secondly how much solution of both fix and stop should I make up initially? Should I just make enough to fill the bottles or what I need to cover 2 35mm films or something inbetween? I am worried about leaving air in the bottle if I only make up say 600ml of solution and use it over a month or two?

Thank you all in advance for your help!
 
with regards to point 2, thats one of the reasons you can get collapsible bottles... personally, mine are stored in plastic bottles that are squeezed to remove the air... the other alternative I saw somewhere was glass beads.

I've got about three quarters of a litre or so of fixer solution (ready to fix) that I've been using for somewhere around two years, and thats with a massive great space for air at the top.
 
Thanks for your reply I looked at the concertina bottles but I saw a lot of negative reviews suggesting they split and that glass was better. I can see that the glass beads might work to fill up any empty space in the bottle i will look out for some next time I am out.
 
Ive stored chemicals at low temperatures before with no issues, but not sure if it would be a good idea to let them go below freezing point.

Collapsible bottles tend to be better as air can be expelled, but I find this is more essential for storing developer. For fixer and stop, I store in 1L plastic bottles and generally make up a litre at a time, so the bottles are pretty full. I would advise doing a clip test on fixer to make sure its not expired. I cant imagine expired stop would do any harm apart from shorten the life of your fixer. And if you are using developer as one shot then storage wont be an issue for it.
 
Concertina bottles used here for mixed up solutions.

If you have a part bottle of concentrate then bob marbles into it to displace the air, thus bringing the liquid to the neck . Admittedly I only does this with developer but it does help to stop it deteriorating as quickly as it does when air is in the bottle.
 
Shimada surely the simplest approach is simply to lower the thermostat, if necessary add a jumper as posh Dave says? That way you save lotsa money for more cameras and film, save the planet AND keep your chemicals in good nick.;)
 
VirtualAdept said:
Asha... whats "bob marbles"?
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:lol: you mean you never heard of "Bob marbles" ??:D

Maybe I could do to re phrase my post:

"If you have a part bottle of concentrate then bob place marbles into it to displace the air" :thumbs:
 
ChrisR said:
Shimada surely the simplest approach is simply to lower the thermostat, if necessary add a jumper as posh Dave says? That way you save lotsa money for more cameras and film, save the planet AND keep your chemicals in good nick.;)
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I do agree with you but unfortunately I am living with family and it's not up to me what the heating is set at so I need to find some other arrangement.
 
Keeping them inside won't really be an issue, I'd be more concerned with the water in them freezing than them getting a little warm.
 
Thank you all for your replies. My developer is one use only so that is not an issue expect that the bottle the developer came in wil obviously get lower as time goes on, perhaps I should get some marbles for that? So you think it would be ok to go with my glass bottles for storing mixed stop and fix for the time being? I have had a look at the concertina bottles online but they are actually quite expensive and I am wiped out at the moment with buying my current developing gear, scanner and christmas coming up so I can avoid spending another £30 at the moment I will.##
 
robhooley167 said:
Keeping them inside won't really be an issue, I'd be more concerned with the water in them freezing than them getting a little warm.
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Ah really? Thats worrying as it has already been below freezing here and I was under the impression that it was best to keep the unmixed chemicals cool. That is one of the downsides to doing photography at art school, there are machines and a nice technician who does all that stuff for you when you are there but its amazing the stuff I am haveing to learn now I no longer have all that luxury!
 
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There's keeping them cool and there's keeping them in sub zero temperatures :p.

Some film developing can be done at up to about 35 degrees so even if your house is that warm, it's still within operating temperatures of the chemicals. :thumbs:
 
When water freezes, it expands; this can split or break bottles depending on what they're made from. Some chemicals might come out of solution, but that depends on what the chemicals are. Glacial acetic acid (used to make up your own stop baths) freezes very easily, but getting a bottle of water to freeze solid isn't easy as it requires a long cold spell. Ice on the top is easier to acquire.

On the original point - is there nowhere indoors that is either unheated or separated from a heated area - for example, a cupboard under the stairs in the hall?
 
Asha said:
:lol: you mean you never heard of "Bob marbles" ??:D

Maybe I could do to re phrase my post:

"If you have a part bottle of concentrate then bob place marbles into it to displace the air" :thumbs:
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smartass :lol:

Although... normal marbles? the glazed cheap jobbies you can get in pound shops?
 
As long as they're inert chemically. It's what we used in the dark(room) ages before concertina bottles were invented.

Edit to add - this shouldn't be taken as implying that I've lost my marbles :lol:
 
Hmmm, I've been looking out for, specifically, glass beads rather than normal marbles... Might invest in some tomorrow
 
VirtualAdept said:
smartass :lol:
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:p:D:D





StephenM said:
As long as they're inert chemically. It's what we used in the dark(room) ages before concertina bottles were invented.
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VirtualAdept said:
Although... normal marbles? the glazed cheap jobbies you can get in pound shops?
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Basically yes "normal" marbles.

Like Stephen says, inert chemically, not that i did any specific searching or testing, I got mine from a local toy shop and not had any issues.

I suspect there are other products could be used so long as there is no reaction with the chemical, after all they're simply used to cause displacement.
 
Btw ...be sure not to get them so large that you can't get em through the neck of the bottle!!! :D
 
Once upon a time Johnsons\Paterson had a great B\W developer called Unitol, it was a one shot 1:10, and every time I used it would add marbles and slightly squeeze the container to exclude all air and it lasted for ages....h'mm miss the old days :(
 
Ok thanks again, I will see if I can establish a space indoors that they can be stored, it is an ex-council house built in the 70's. It had new central heating and insulation put in last year and it gets very hot. Perhaps under the stairs might work but it depends on getting access. I will pick up some marbles tomorrow or online and get some concertina bottles when I can.

Thanks :)
 
excalibur2 said:
Once upon a time Johnsons\Paterson had a great B\W developer called Unitol, it was a one shot 1:10, and every time I used it would add marbles and slightly squeeze the container to exclude all air and it lasted for ages....h'mm miss the old days :(
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..... and now the marbles ( having being suitably cleaned up), live happily ever after in the playfull hands of your grandchildren :D
 
Asha said:
..... and now the marbles ( having being suitably cleaned up), live happily ever after in the playfull hands of your grandchildren :D
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What a lovely ending......I like it.:clap::clap:
 
Ok I have just had a word with my Dad who isn't keen on having the chemicals stored in the house. He has offered to make me an insulated box to store the chemicals in using left over loft insulation. He says this should stop the chemicals freezing or ice forming, what do you think, could that work?
 
Do lagged pipes ever freeze? It depends on variables I don't know - how sheltered the location will be, what tempertures are normal (or even abnormal).

One thing I would take a bet on though (and I don't gamble) is that you have already stored in your house chemicals far more dangerous than the ones you listed at the start of this thread. It's all a matter of perception.

Edit. Actually, I'd bet that you already have in your kitchen the active ingredients of some of those chemicals :)
 
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shimada said:
Ok I have just had a word with my Dad who isn't keen on having the chemicals stored in the house. He has offered to make me an insulated box to store the chemicals in using left over loft insulation. He says this should stop the chemicals freezing or ice forming, what do you think, could that work?
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H'mm I would have thought household bleach is dangerous.......insulation will only work until the cold penetrates past it, in fact once something has iced up in the middle it would stay cold for a long time even if the outside is warm (as it's a insulator in reverse).
 
StephenM said:
Do lagged pipes ever freeze? It depends on variables I don't know - how sheltered the location will be, what tempertures are normal (or even abnormal).

One thing I would take a bet on though (and I don't gamble) is that you have already stored in your house chemicals far more dangerous than the ones you listed at the start of this thread. It's all a matter of perception.

Edit. Actually, I'd bet that you already have in your kitchen the active ingredients of some of those chemicals :)
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excalibur2 said:
H'mm I would have thought household bleach is dangerous.......insulation will only work until the cold penetrates past it, in fact once something has iced up in the middle it would stay cold for a long time even if the outside is warm (as it's a insulator in reverse).
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I agree with you both but it's not my house and I need to respect my parents wishes. I will have a look under the stairs tomorrow and see if I can find space and if so I will try and reason with them. Does everyone else have these issues?
 
shimada said:
I agree with you both but it's not my house and I need to respect my parents wishes. I will have a look under the stairs tomorrow and see if I can find space and if so I will try and reason with them. Does everyone else have these issues?
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Well best not to upset your parents as with an insulated box it would be alright in a shed as long as we don't have a rotten winter and it's minus 5c at night and minus 1c in the day for weeks, and anyway what would be the cost if the chemicals froze and were ruined. Also if the shed is in a sunny position that would help to keep things warm.
 
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I never had a problem.

You could always point out that the active ingredient in your stop bath is found in lemon juice and, as stated, household bleach is far worse than anything you've listed. As is white spirit, spirits of salts, most household heavy duty cleaners.

It rather reminds me of the city that decided to pass a by-law revoking the laws of physics and declared itself a "nuclear free zone". Everything is made up of chemicals - you can't avoid having them in the house. You even wear them. It's a matter of risk and danger that they pose. And I'd rather dip my hands in any of your chemicals than concentrated household bleach.
 
the only chemical you really need to keep the air away from is the developer ,,,i wouldnt worry about the stop and fixer , ( if they do oxidise ?? ) its certainly no where near as fast as the developer .
 
My fixer is stored in an old thinners bottle (1l) and my C41 developer is stored in 4 500ml water bottles. I just squeeze them as I'm putting the lid on to make sure all the air is expelled before storage. (In a big container under my bed!)
 
dinorock said:
every ones heard of bob marbles he done all that reggae music :lol::lol::lol:
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Shurrup :lol:

Sadly even my mrs looked at me like I was mad when I was telling her about it... Apparently it's an expression I alone was not aware of
 
VirtualAdept said:
Shurrup :lol:

Sadly even my mrs looked at me like I was mad when I was telling her about it... Apparently it's an expression I alone was not aware of
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:lol: perhaps your avatar name will suddenly change.......to Bob!

You're never gunna live this down :D:D
 
I'm just glad the custom titles dont appear to be enabled on this incarnation of the forum :D
 
I keep my Rolleii Digibase colour chemicals in old wine bottles - works a treat and cheap too. They are ideally sized for the amount you need for 2 x 35mm or a 120 roll and, especially burgundy bottles, the neck shape minimises the amount of oxidation.
 
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