Quality control (shhhh ...)

[droj]

Something that's a bit hush-hush. The arena is one of commerce, but generally the vulnerable partner is the consumer. I don't know what statistics are available. I'm thinking of different manufacturers of cameras & lenses in particular.

To illustrate my theme - a relation of mine was a signed-up (new) car dealer. At one time he had an Alfa Romeo dealership at one of his outlets, before switching to Kia. He reported that the average value of warranty work required per Alfa sold (in the 1990's) was £400, but for a Kia, it was more or less nil.

With photo gear, we probably hear more about the volume manufacturers (say Canon, Nikon, which is statistically reasonable) - but I'd be more interested in failure rate as a percentage of production, extended across companies such as Olympus and Sigma ....

In an equable society, such information should be freely available. Is it? Or are we all just victims of rumour and obfuscation?

 

[woof woof]

In an equable society, such information should be freely available. Is it? Or are we all just victims of rumour and obfuscation?

Dunno... Lens rentals published something about lenses a while ago didn't they?

You're always going to get the odd problem with stuff like lenses because they're complex and difficult to make well in large numbers and there's a lot of human involvement and that's before the customer shoots wide open and pixel peeps at 300% on screen. The purely mechanical and electronics should be easier but even there you can have batch issues or problems caused by iffy design in the first place.

Personally I think that build and reliability wise things have possibly never been better. If you want a real horror story just look at some consumer kit from the 70's.

Actually just to add a little more... I used to deal with hardware (computers, peripherals and wider electronics) and one thing that bugged me no end was that when a new product or model came out there'd be an avalanche of returns and it took time to identify and sort all of the issues and just when everything was nailed down and sorted and the avalanche had been turned to a mere trickle they'd end production and bring out the new model and it'll all start again.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I just think too many people have a poor idea of what a fault is.

My D600 had oil on the sensor. I just cleaned the ****ing thing instead of bitching on internet forums and sending it back to Nikon (shrug).

 

[Blank_Canvas]

[QUOTE="woof woof, post: 7222112, member:

Personally I think that build and reliability wise things have possibly never been better. If you want a real horror story just look at some consumer kit from the 70's.
.[/QUOTE]

I recall that that things were pretty robust, washing machines, TV's, furniture was built to last, let's not forget the Nikon F2. Mine is still going strong today !

Customer service was brilliant in those days. Ring any company or public service utility and the switchboard put you through within 30 seconds !! - Now we have disembodied, patronising, automated digital switchboards that keep you hanging on for hours and people who don't listen to you or are not interested or competent in resolving your issue. Progress be damned !!

 

[Gary Coyle]

I just think too many people have a poor idea of what a fault is.

My D600 had oil on the sensor. I just cleaned the ****ing thing instead of bitching on internet forums and sending it back to Nikon (shrug).

David, i think you once put up some figures regarding damage/faults with all the cameras your students used over a certain period, you don't have those figures to hand again do you.

Re the D600 oil on sensor issue, i appreciate you're happy to clean your sensor every 100 shots but on the other hand if im paying big money i want it to work "correctly" out of the box, if you purchased a brand new Mustang and there were spots of oil over your driveway every morning im pretty sure you wouldn't just live with it and stick some araldite over the leak

 

[Steve Smith]

im pretty sure you wouldn't just live with it and stick some araldite over the leak

Of course not. You use Gripfill for that!


Stev e.

 

[Pookeyhead]

David, i think you once put up some figures regarding damage/faults with all the cameras your students used over a certain period, you don't have those figures to hand again do you.

I don't, no.... I'd have to search previous posts. I remember it was heavily in favour of Nikon though. I'm not sure it's relevant, as students don't merely use them... they abuse them. It did show that Canon seem to be more fragile though. This thread is about faults not quality tested out before sale though, not long term reliability when in the hands of a resentful student who feels paying £8000 a year entitles them to do whatever the **** they want with your gear.

Re the D600 oil on sensor issue, i appreciate you're happy to clean your sensor every 100 shots but on the other hand if im paying big money i want it to work "correctly" out of the box, if you purchased a brand new Mustang and there were spots of oil over your driveway every morning im pretty sure you wouldn't just live with it and stick some araldite over the leak

I regularly clean the sensor any way. I genuinely saw no issue with it. It stopped happening after a thousand shots or so. The camera is fine, and still working well. In fact it has nothing in front of the sensor at all now (used for astro work).. so confident am I that the issue is a non issue.

They were just a bit excessive with lubrication on early batches. Hardly a fault.

 

[Steve Smith]

This thread is about faults not quality tested out before

Just to be pedantic (as it's something which is drummed into us at work). Quality control is not about inspecting finished products to filter out the bad, it's more about making sure nothing is made bad.


Steve.

 

[SFTPhotography]

All I know is all the Nikkor lens and Nikon camera gear I have owned has been completely faultless out of the box and with repeated use.

 

[Xenon54]

but I'd be more interested in failure rate as a percentage of production, extended across companies such as Olympus and Sigma ....

I doubt any manufacturer will publish precise failure/yield rates on their processes (what have they got to gain from such things?), but funnily enough Ming Thein just blogged about his visit to a Sigma factory which is well worth a read. That fact that they manufacturer everything in house would subjective suggest they have the ability to achieve lower failure rates and better QC, assuming they run a very tight ship.

Lens Rentals has also starting publishing scores on copy-to-copy variation across a wide range of makes and types of lenses, and from memory Sigma performs quite well (relatively), which is probably part of the reason they've been getting so much love recently.

 

[viewfromthenorth]

Statistically, you will always get some level of variation. One of the the keys to good quality is reducing that variation to such a level that it has little impact on the performance of the finished product. But for more complex products, i.e. with more components each with some degree of variation, however small, will require either more controls in place in manufacturing (or automation), or more testing to stop it getting out.
While products will of course wear out, they are designed to withstand a certain level of abuse but that's a trade off between weight, cost and the limitations of the materials and components.
In 30 years of photography and camera ownership, the only quality issue I've had has been shutter failure on my 1985 Practica which was built in East Germany - nuff said.

 

[woof woof]

I recall that that things were pretty robust, washing machines, TV's, furniture was built to last, let's not forget the Nikon F2. Mine is still going strong today !

Customer service was brilliant in those days. Ring any company or public service utility and the switchboard put you through within 30 seconds !! - Now we have disembodied, patronising, automated digital switchboards that keep you hanging on for hours and people who don't listen to you or are not interested or competent in resolving your issue. Progress be damned !!

From my own experience the cabinets were built to last and many electro mechanical components were actually over specified but on the electrical side IMO the picture wasn't so rosy and what saved the day was that things were pretty basic if rather messy. That recipe can and did make for reliable long lasting basic stuff which could be fixed with a pair of pliers, a screwdriver and a soldering iron but up the complexity of the electrical and electronic side of things and I personally don't think that much of the old stuff stands comparison to todays. I worked on computer and electronic kit that I don't think stands comparison to todays stuff and in fact I'd be rather horrified if the build standards of the past made it into a product of today (other than the illegal pirate stuff from the far east,) and actually I don't CE approval would allow it

Agree about customer service though, IMO it's pretty absent from many companies today.