?PSE 11 good training for 'full' photoshop?

Elines

Elines

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Chris
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At the moment I am still getting to grips with PS Elements 11 and it seems to be doing everything I want. But ....

I had been thinking that if I subsequently wanted to upgrade to 'full' Photoshop then things I had learned in using PSE 11 would easily translate to 'full' Photoshop eg use of tools/techniques etc.

Is this in fact correct, or would I be having to learn a completely new set of rules/shortcuts/key combinations (or whatever).

Also ..... as I understand it you now have to subscribe a monthly fee for ever to use Photoshop rather than buy it as a one off - is that correct?
 
It is pretty much the same set up, i used CS5 until i accidentally wiped my laptop and now use elements 10, i was worried i'd have to re-learn the small knowledge that i had but nope it was the same principles..

Can't help with the monthly bit as i don't know how it works now but it does sound familiar
 
Elines said:
At the moment I am still getting to grips with PS Elements 11 and it seems to be doing everything I want. But ....

I had been thinking that if I subsequently wanted to upgrade to 'full' Photoshop then things I had learned in using PSE 11 would easily translate to 'full' Photoshop eg use of tools/techniques etc.

Is this in fact correct, or would I be having to learn a completely new set of rules/shortcuts/key combinations (or whatever).

Also ..... as I understand it you now have to subscribe a monthly fee for ever to use Photoshop rather than buy it as a one off - is that correct?
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Providing you're talking about 'expert' mode in PSE, then yes, very transferable.

And yes, if you want the latest version, you do have to subscribe. There's an offer on until the 31st to do this for just under £9 a month. Another option would be to buy a second hand copy of CS5 or CS6 which you would then own on the same basis as PSE.
 
Elines said:
At the moment I am still getting to grips with PS Elements 11 and it seems to be doing everything I want. But ....

I had been thinking that if I subsequently wanted to upgrade to 'full' Photoshop then things I had learned in using PSE 11 would easily translate to 'full' Photoshop eg use of tools/techniques etc.

Is this in fact correct, or would I be having to learn a completely new set of rules/shortcuts/key combinations (or whatever).

Also ..... as I understand it you now have to subscribe a monthly fee for ever to use Photoshop rather than buy it as a one off - is that correct?
Click to expand...
hi chris the monthly fee bit is "on offer" until the end of dec 2013 i think, so if your thinking of going down that route you better get your skates on. hth mike. fyi its called CC (creative cloud) you pick the programs you use regularly.and pay per month to use them. the link is here, £8.78 a month you get photoshop/lightroom together bargain! https://creative.adobe.com/plans/offer/photoshop+lightroom
 
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Hi, Just my 2 p's worth.
What are you going to use the full Monty for?
If you are are only into photography then IMO I would say DON'T go for the full P/S because just remember once in there on subscription you will have to stay if you want to keep it.
P/S CS again IMO is far to big for what as photographers we need, however if your also into things like graphic design then yes go for it.
I have CS6 but nowadays hardly go there as I prefer for photography Lightroom 5 and OnOne suite (version 8 now available) you can download a free trial and you don't need to buy the whole suite if you do not need it all. Also if you do want P/S CS look for an older version 4,5 or 6 and work again along with Lightroom, remember if you buy the older version it's yours for life not just for the time you subscribe.
Russ
 
Thanks for the info - all very helpful.

I am still very much exploring photography (not graphic design), trying different things and types - all as a hobby with no intention of doing it professionally.

I moved to Photoshop after trying (and failing) for 6 months to learn GIMP. I had it in mind that if I invested (fresh) time in learning PSE 11 that I could move on to (what I now know to call ) CS, if needed, with minimum further investment of time. But then realised that I hadn't actually confirmed that my understanding on that point was correct. You have now confirmed that, so thanks for that.

Yes - I am learning PSE 11 in 'expert' mode with only occasional forays into guided.

What prompted my original post was that I like the 'contrast grading' method used for B&W conversions on

http://www.digitalmonochromeforum.co.uk/forum.php

and that may require CS, and if so then that might be good enough reason for me to upgrade at some future point.

However at this stage, I don't even know if I can apply that method of conversion such as to get the same level of results. And - maybe because I am a beginner - I am actually quite pleased with the results I am currently getting from this method:

http://www.photoshopessentials.com/photo-editing/black-and-white/hue-saturation/

even though I have not been able to achieve the quality of conversion I see using 'contrast grading'.


So ......... again at this stage, I can't justify to myself spending even £108 pa on something when I don't know whether or not I actually need it. Also I don't know - without eg testing it out on a friend's CS - if I will be able to do in CS what I want to do, whatever that may be. (I'm not necessarily talking about knowing which buttons to press - more a question of exercising judgment in what to press , when and for how long:).)
 
russellsnr said:
If you are are only into photography then IMO I would say DON'T go for the full P/S because just remember once in there on subscription you will have to stay if you want to keep it.
P/S CS again IMO is far to big for what as photographers we need,
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I'm sorry, but you can't go around saying stuff like that and speaking for others. It may be all YOU need, but to suggest that Photoshop is too much for what we as photographers is patently ridiculous... and who the hell is this "we"? Sorry... ridiculous thing to say.... it just is.

I use it all the time. Layers, layer masking are essential for anyone doing composite work. 16bit editing is essential for anyone working outside of RAW or with film. Soft-proofing for print is far more sophisticated. Actual retouching is light years ahead of Lightroom, and now with CC you can use smart objects and smart filters to edit RAW IN photoshop in a fully reversible work-flow too.


Sorry... but stop speaking for all photographers... Ok? Just stop it :)
 
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Pookeyhead said:
I'm sorry, but you can't go around saying stuff like that and speaking for others. It may be all YOU need, but to suggest that Photoshop is too much for what we as photographers is patently ridiculous... and who the hell is this "we"? Sorry... ridiculous thing to say.... it just is.

I use it all the time. Layers, layer masking are essential for anyone doing composite work. 16bit editing is essential for anyone working outside of RAW or with film. Soft-proofing for print is far more sophisticated. Actual retouching is light years ahead of Lightroom, and now with CC you can use smart objects and smart filters to edit RAW IN photoshop in a fully reversible work-flow too.


Sorry... but stop speaking for all photographers... Ok? Just stop it :)
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Hi, Sorry if it offends you but as far as I no it is not against any law to give an opinion on any subject and as I stated in my reply to the OP it was just that my opinion.
Also please do not advise me what I can and cannot say or do or tell me to stop it that is my right and one reason why I served my country for The Freedom of Speech!!!!
Have a good New Year:D
Russ
 
Nope... opinions are fine... but you were speaking on behalf of all photographers. What you meant to say was that YOU have no need for Photoshop.. surely :)
 
As the OP, could I simply ask if anyone has anything to say in response to my post 6 above please:)

In particular has anyone tried 'Contrast grading' and then given up on it or have they found it worth the investment of time/£s to learn.

I hope to have a go at it sometime soon and would be interested in any vies of practitioners
 
Your link just takes me to a forum. There's a sub forum called Contrast Grading, but sorry.... not hunting around. Can you link to something that actually describes the process you wish to use? "Contrast Grading" is quite a generic term that could mean a wide variety or specific techniques.

IMO though... the method you link to in the second link is more than adequate as a means of converting colour images to B&W. As for contrast control, that's more of a separate technique in itself... some methods do require the use of adjustment layers, yes... in which case, PS would be necessary.. whether you need the full version or whether Elements would be OK I've no idea... as I've no idea what this "contrast grading" technique involves.. Unless you link to something that actually gives a blow by blow account of the process you are enquiring about... then I'm not sure I can help you. All I can see on that forum is that I need to buy some guy's DVDs in order to understand what this process is. I bet I don't.... I bet it's something we've been doing for donkey's years, but "Contrast Grading" is a term that's been used for years.. it's not giving me any insight into what this guy's DVDs are asking you to do specifically.
 
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Chris, would you have a chance to try out the 'full' thing and see if it meets your needs? You may find that Elements will do you just fine. Also, look at Lightroom, I used to do everything in Photoshop, now I rarely use it, most of my stuff goes through Lightroom.
 
"You make two duplicate layers (after the bw conversion) the top layer has a fair bit of contrast added (say about +50) and is set to overlay blend mode at about 50% opacity (varies) the bottom duplicate is low contrast(-50), the idea is you get the high contrast off the top layer while retaining the highlight detail from the lower duplicate layer."

That's it?? This guy is expecting you to pay £25 on a DVD just to explain layer blending?

@chris.... PSE11 will be fine for "Contrast Grading" as it uses layers, and allows layer blend modes etc. I can't imagine what else this process needs.

Sounds to me like this Martin Henson dude is just fleecing people for £25 when all he's teaching is stuff cobbled together from techniques others have been using for years. I wonder if we have a copy of this at work... I hope we have. I'll just condense his BS into a tutorial and publish it for free. I hate all this "You can be as great as me.... just for £25.99" [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]. If I had developed a revolutionary technique that made my work utterly unique.... wouldn't I be making money from my utterly unique work instead of making money from telling everyone how to do it... and therefore rendering it utterly un-unique?

Snake oil.
 
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"Contrast Grading" is quite a generic term that could mean a wide variety or specific techniques.
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Ok - sorry, I didn't realise that 'Contrast Grading' didn't have a specific meaning - lots of stuff is still new to me

Chris, would you have a chance to try out the 'full' thing and see if it meets your needs? You may find that Elements will do you just fine. Also, look at Lightroom, I used to do everything in Photoshop, now I rarely use it, most of my stuff goes through Lightroom.
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I may be able to have a go on a friend's copy but in any event I am trying to get my head round the differences between PSE 11 and CS6/CC

Click link > Contrast grading or another decent B&W technique?
Click to expand...

Thanks for that - I didn't find it when I looked. The description in the link gels with my limited understanding of 'Contrast Grading'

That's it?? This guy is expecting you to pay £25 on a DVD just to explain layer blending?
Click to expand...

I don't know if there is more to it than that. I was interested to find out if anyone used it and what their view was.

Certainly some of the images produced by 'Contrast Grading' on the other site look much more impressive (to me) than the example given in the link above. But then again that may be simply because the image in the link was chosen to illustrate the method rather than to produce a fantastic image. It does say that it starts off with a good conversion and so the changes are subtle.
 
There are so many ways to adjust contrast, both globally across the whole image, or selectively. They are not exclusively black and white techniques though. It would seem that this "contrast grading" technique is just layering different contrast versions in separate layers, and using different layer blend techniques to retain highlights from one, shadows from another etc. Once they are in layers, you can then even start to use layer masks to be more selective I suppose. Either way.... PSE11 shoudl be able to handle all of that. I see no reason to upgrade to "proper" photoshop if you don't want.

The other link you posted was just concentrating on converting the colour image to black and white and retaining control of the tones... you can still do that, and then still manage/manipulate contrast afterwards as a separate process.
 
Elines said:
I don't know if there is more to it than that. I was interested to find out if anyone used it and what their view was.

Certainly some of the images produced by 'Contrast Grading' on the other site look much more impressive (to me) than the example given in the link above.
Click to expand...

This thread is now going off topic (which was about whether or not PSE 11 was good training for CS6/CC) and is now more concerned with conversion from colour to B&W, which is ok so far as I (as OP) am concerned.

I think there is more to 'Contrast Grading' than the method shown in

Click link > Contrast grading or another decent B&W technique?
Click to expand...

because I have just compared my results with an image using the method in the link (split grading) with the results obtained using 'Contrast grading' - example provided at

http://www.digitalmonochromeforum.co.uk/showthread.php?5395-Practice-contrast-control

and my results were nowhere near as good (in my opinion) as those given in the 'official' answer
 
Pookeyhead said:
............................ It would seem that this "contrast grading" technique is just layering different contrast versions in separate layers, and using different layer blend techniques to retain highlights from one, shadows from another etc. Once they are in layers, you can then even start to use layer masks to be more selective I suppose. Either way.... PSE11 shoudl be able to handle all of that. I see no reason to upgrade to "proper" photoshop if you don't want...........................
Click to expand...

Thanks for this

For me it is not a case of 'just layering different contrast versions in separate layers' etc - I need Noddy guidance to do it and worked examples to show me what I am supposed to be doing, because I can be really, really thick at times:)

As regards using PSE 11 - yes I am coming to that view too but even if I can't use PSE 11, I am not likely to be investing £100+ pa in CS6/CC because I can think of other photographic things I would rather spend it on.
 
In that respect then Chris... if you are a beginner... then investing £25 in a DVD isn't too bad actually. Just don't assume you're getting some unique, super cutting edge contrast technique.... as all the guy will be doing will be using features already present in Photoshop... he's not invented anything. Still... if it gets you what you want and will teach you stuff.. then go for it.
 
Pookeyhead said:
In that respect then Chris... if you are a beginner... then investing £25 in a DVD isn't too bad actually. Just don't assume you're getting some unique, super cutting edge contrast technique.... as all the guy will be doing will be using features already present in Photoshop... he's not invented anything. Still... if it gets you what you want and will teach you stuff.. then go for it.
Click to expand...

Thanks - yes that is where I'm coming from.

Putting it at its most morbid, whilst I could probably pick up all the necessary knowledge from You Tube videos/reading stuff on TP etc, at my age (mid 60s) I don't feel I have the time to hang about :) (and time saved watching You tube etc could be spent savouring beer
yelrotflmao.gif
)
 
Wow.. that is morbid, yes.. LOL

No argument from me re: beer though :)
 
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