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charleyboy14

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Charles
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So a little bit of bacground on myself in order to seek better advice.

I'm mainly a cycle photographer but will shoot anything (example i'll be shooting the last 3 rounds of the WRC) i shoot a lot of portraits of riders.

I'm looking at some ProFoto gear because my current speedlight set up isn't the one. what i'm looking for is some advice on which profoto set up to go for.

I need something that i can take out in the field (mainly on a mountain side) something thats relatively good priced. I need it to work with Pocket Wizards. it need to be able to sync realy fast (i'm shooting on 1d mk2n's) and i need something thats resonably weather proof.

Also i need advice on what to look out for (things that often go wrong with ProFoto gear) how good there warranty service is and how reliable, fast and expensive there service centers are.

Its a big ask but hopefully some one can help.

Thanks in advance

Charles Robertson
 
Why are you so brand biased towards Profoto? This is the list of 3 battery packs from Profoto's current range. If you are on a budget, even AcuteB 600R might seem a lot. 7B is mighty powerful and very reliable, but very heavy and expensive. if you want portability, forget it. And modifiers do cost a lot too. Check out Procentre for price details.

Looking from the portability point of view, you can't beat Eli Quadra. And unless you are wanting to overpower the sun, 400ws should suffice in a lot of shooting conditions. Or Lencarta Li-on might be an option if carrying an extra few kg won't break your back. Quadra for the ultimate portability, and Lencarta for the cost. There are also other alternatives from various smaller manufacturers, but you might benefit from widening your search perimeter a little. But I feel that unless you have a specific need for Profoto, and are on budget, there are certainly alternatives you should consider.

You are better off doing a lot more hands on research before asking for opinions on the final few choices, rather than asking what is best?

it's a fun dilemma to be in. Good luck with it.
 
The reason i'm biased towards ProFoto is because they are the industrie standard. it's quite hard to explain my point of view but i shall try anyway.

I originally started out with some Cactus V4's. they where shocking but it was all i could afford. I then finally got the money together to buy Pocket Wizards (i baught them because they where the industry standard) i have never had a problem with them. They just do what there supposed to. I know you can find cheaper alternatives to PW but i can gaurentee they wont be as reliable.

My reasoning behind a bias to ProFoto is it's a lot of money to spend so i want them to be perfect i dont want to have to keep bodging things i know if i buy them they will work and do what there suposed to when there suposed to.

Life is about convenience, if i'm not having to wory about if the lights are going to work then i can concentrate wholey on the shot.

Thanks for the input i shall check it out
 
That's a big ask, and the closest I've seen for power, portability and high speed sync options is Dave Black's eight hot-shoe guns rig. Though cheap, and weather proofed, remains in question. Take a look at this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNDAINwhTWU Pair them up with PW Flex/Mini for best sync options (which weren't available for Nikon when DB made this).

Or Elinchrom Quadras is the more conventional route but they, like ProFoto, don't allow the same PW cool sync stuff.
 
hairboy said:
Looking from the portability point of view, you can't beat Eli Quadra. And unless you are wanting to overpower the sun, 400ws should suffice in a lot of shooting conditions. Or Lencarta Li-on might be an option if carrying an extra few kg won't break your back. Quadra for the ultimate portability, and Lencarta for the cost.

it's a fun dilemma to be in. Good luck with it.
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I like it:)
In fact, The Lencarta Li-on is only a tiny bit larger and heavier than the Quadra. The real difference, apart from the massive difference in cost, is that the Safari Li-on has a Lithium battery that delivers five times as many flashes per battery charge than the Quadra - so by the time you've added the bulk and weight of the extra Quadra battery, the Safari Li-on is actually smaller and lighter as well as cheaper:)

I'm writing this on a short break from taking some new photos of the Li-on, and then I have to do an instruction video of it - then you can see for yourself.

We had a quick go with it yesterday on the Lencarta studio lighting day. People had travelled long distances (Essex, Ireland, the midlands) so it will probably be a while before they get a chance to add their own comments, but we took the Li-on out to do some shots at the end of the day.
 
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OK, so you are looking for reliability. That's fine. But just because Profoto is industry standard, it doesn't mean that's the only option you should consider. Availability of accessories/modifiers, repair centre locations, etc are just as important as the actual reliability itself.

You say your speedlights aren't enough, so you want to jump to Profoto. it's like saying your Nissan Micra isn't fast enough, so I'll go for an Ferrari. There are plenty of options out there. You are right. It's a big investment. So don't take the word of us folks on tinternet forum, and actually do some serious research. Go to shops, and find out pros and cons of all potential models.

Comparing a cheap Chinese knock off Cactus to Pocket Wizard is not the same as comparing well established companies such as Bowens, Elinchrom, et al to Profoto. They all are major manufacturers certified to meet European quality regulations, and they back their products with at least 12 months warranty. Unless you mean to abuse them, they aren't about to fall apart too soon, and should last you a good long time. For example, my Bowens are over 8 years old, with good usage, and not even had 1 tube replaced. That should tell you something, right?

Profoto lights are fantastic. I don't think anyone would be foolish to argue otherwise. But the question is do you really understand what you require, and that Profoto is required to do the job at hand. And I don't think you realise just how expensive Profotos are in comparison to the competition. If you can comfortably afford the kit you require, then that's fine. Go for AcuteB for portability, or 7B for power. But you mentioned reasonable cost, and coming from someone upgrading from speedlights, I'm guessing you aren't all that familiar with the "big lights" yet. A quick research, and I think you'll likely have another think.
 
hairboy said:
Profoto lights are fantastic. I don't think anyone would be foolish to argue otherwise. But the question is do you really understand what you require, and that Profoto is required to do the job at hand. And I don't think you realise just how expensive Profotos are in comparison to the competition. If you can comfortably afford the kit you require, then that's fine. Go for AcuteB for portability, or 7B for power. But you mentioned reasonable cost, and coming from someone upgrading from speedlights, I'm guessing you aren't all that familiar with the "big lights" yet. A quick research, and I think you'll likely have another think.
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I agree with most of that. I feel that Profoto, although good, are seriously overpriced and over-hyped.
Having tested a LOT of products, I'd say that Hensel are pretty similar but at a lower price - still seriously overpriced IMO and I wouldn't recommend them for various reasons not directly connected to the actual products, but better value than Profoto.

Have a good look round - and come to my studio if you can and have a play with the Safari Li-on...
 
treeman said:
If you want High speed sync, look at the Elinchrom Quadra with the new PW's Flex etc.

Read this syncing at 1/2500 th !!
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Now this is interesting, if it really does work - I'll have to get hold of the new PW flex and try it with the Lencarta Safari Li-on - because if it allows fast shutter speeds to be used with the Quadra then it will work even better with the Li-on
 
Garry Edwards said:
Now this is interesting, if it really does work - I'll have to get hold of the new PW flex and try it with the Lencarta Safari Li-on - because if it allows fast shutter speeds to be used with the Quadra then it will work even better with the Li-on
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Sure it works, after a fashion. It's the old tail-sync hack.

But power loss is substantial (similar to HS/FP sync) and the light is uneven over the frame. Note how the brightness of the foreground changes left to right along the bottom. There will probably be some kind of colour shift, too, though maybe less important.

The result you get depends on the duration and shape of the flash pulse curve, the shutter speed, and how benign the subject is in concealing what's going on. Personally, I think there are much better methods.
 
HoppyUK said:
Sure it works, after a fashion. It's the old tail-sync hack.

But power loss is substantial (similar to HS/FP sync) .......
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You may well be right, but do you know that as fact?

I do have a set of the Flexes which I bought when the Nikon ones came out, took one look at the instructions, got totally baffled and put them back in the box and carried on using the Plus II's! I might get them out and try again having seen this.
 
treeman said:
You may well be right, but do you know that as fact?

I do have a set of the Flexes which I bought when the Nikon ones came out, took one look at the instructions, got totally baffled and put them back in the box and carried on using the Plus II's! I might get them out and try again having seen this.
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Yes, I know that as fact. Also, it cannot be anything else ;)

You can do it with any flash, including hot shoe guns but only at full power when the tail of the flash pulse is retained. It's chopped off short at lower power settings. Studio type heads, like the Quadras, will do it at any power setting because of the different way their capacitors work.

You just need to fire the flash right at the start of the exposure, just as the first curtain opens. This happens if you can pull the HSS/FP Flash trigger out of the camera, which you can do with the PW Flexes, or the PW Multi which is even better with more adjustment on the exact timing of the trigger. Or there's a workaround using an optical slave to pick up on an actual HSS flash.

What happens is that the shutter opens and the flash fires simultaneously, and as the shutter travels down the flash is still putting out light, albeit at a rapidly declining level. So the top of the frame gets progressively darker and, potentially, can change colour.

The result is a big loss of light in the exposure, and unevenness top to bottom. But it does allow you to use higher shutter speeds and if the subject is benign (ie it's around the middle) and especially if there's a bit of ambient light around to help boost the dark bits.

Some people call this hypersync, but it's not the same as PW's rather clever HyperSync which is something entirely different. That tweaks the exact timing of a normal flash pulse to squeaze slighly higher x-sync speeds, like 1/250sec up to 1/400sec, but with no loss of power. It is also not to be confused with HSS/FP Sync, which only works with hot shoe guns.

The theoretcial benefit is that because you can do this with studio type heads, which have a lot more power to start with, you still end up with something usable. Personally, I don't like it - I think it's a crude bodge, given there are alternatives such as HSS or simply using ND filters to kep the shutter speed below the normal x-sync ceiling. Much better IMHO, but give it a go ;)
 
Right i've taken your advice and i'm now going to buy the Elinchrom Ranger Quadra RX set A (because i shoot sport) with 1 head.

I have another question though, is this set compatible with Flex TT5 and what adaprters do i need to make it work?
 
charleyboy14 said:
Right i've taken your advice and i'm now going to buy the Elinchrom Ranger Quadra RX set A (because i shoot sport) with 1 head.

I have another question though, is this set compatible with Flex TT5 and what adaprters do i need to make it work?
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It's compatible, in that it with fire and you can get the tail-sync hack kind of hypersync with it (see para 6 above) but you won't get E-TTL.

Speak to somewhere like The Flash Centre about exactly what you'll need. Nothing special I would have thought.

Edit: I would trial it first to make sure it does what you want, eg hire from TFC.
 
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It's also worth noting that the 'HSS' is done using the S head for its longer flash duration.
 
DemiLion said:
+1
It's also worth noting that the 'HSS' is done using the S head for its longer flash duration.
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Yes. None of this is entirely conventional and depends very much on the result you want with the particular mix of equipment you're using and the ambient levels.

You might get the best result with a long duration using hypersync, or the shortest duration using HyperSync, if you see what I mean ;)

Given the power loss and uneven coverage with the former, I'm guessing that with a 1D2n, cranking up the x-sync to 1/500sec with HyperSync, and moderating the ambient with ND filters if needs be, might be the best way.

It will certainly optimise the power, if 1/500sec is enough the freeze the action. If you're panning, yes, if you're not, maybe not :thinking:
 
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