Profoto B1 500 AirTTL; wow

[arthurbikemad]

Is the point of TTL and the B1s not the fact they shoot TTL but you can easily lock down the setting, erect lights, set TTL, check exposure, like, lock settings, tweak as required. . I'd not remain in TTL as prob said one guy has white shirt one has black, chance is TTL could meter wrong and blow the shot, not like you can't retake it when some guy is sat on a chair unlike say a snowboarder doing a double backflip

 

[mike weeks]

I love how most of the discussion has been about TTL. Of course you don't need it for this setup but it did make things easier so no reason not to use it.

How did it make things easier? As an event photographer I can take that many images in one evening, I meter, the lights are set, they do their job, so what prey do they offer in this situation that is that added extra?

Mike

 

[sk66]

Yea, just like all the wedding guests who say, "my mate's got a 5D / 1D / 15 grand of L lenses"... wedding photographers must feel pretty amateurish.

There's nothing amateurish about using gear designed for professional use. Especially if it produces exactly the same result as another piece of professional gear. There are obviously a lot of advantages to using studio heads - they wouldn't exist if there weren't. But a lot of the time a Speedlite will do exactly the same job (or better in some cases of course), with less hassle. It's not amateurish to use gear you know will get the job done.

There is truth to the view that going strobist is "amateurish"... at least in perception. And do not kid yourself, perceptions matter. (I don't think McNally has changed this at all).
Personally, I would probably choose AD360's and do the job solo... but that would come off as much more amateurish than someone who rolls in with a set of studio heads with power packs and big modifiers, plus a couple of assistants to move/adjust the lights on demand, manage the people, and to watch for clothing/hair/makeup issues.

 

[sk66]

Is the point of TTL and the B1s not the fact they shoot TTL but you can easily lock down the setting, erect lights, set TTL, check exposure, like, lock settings, tweak as required. . I'd not remain in TTL as prob said one guy has white shirt one has black, chance is TTL could meter wrong and blow the shot, not like you can't retake it when some guy is sat on a chair unlike say a snowboarder doing a double backflip

How do you lock down the TTL power settings? They don't tell you what they used...

I'm by no means a "manual is the only way" kind of person... I almost never use full manual anything. But, in a situation like this full manual everything really is probably the easiest route (I guess that assumes you are very comfortable with it).
That's not to say full manual isn't potentially also going to need to be tweaked. Maybe you get a pale skin woman in a white dress all of a sudden... your manual settings will probably make her skin look translucent (not in a good way) and loose most of the details of the fabric. But 99% of the time the settings will work without tweaking.
And it's not to say TTL will be a complete PITA. If the camera metering and EC is set appropriately (probably CW, maybe Matrix with a bit of -FEC) you can probably shoot all day and be w/in .5 stop... And if you do get the light skin/light dress, or the dark skin/dark dress then TTL will automatically compensate for that (perhaps too much). The "problem" with TTL in this type of situation isn't that it won't/can't work well... it's that you have to be even more aware/proficient(or lucky) in order for it to do so.

 

[arthurbikemad]

How do you lock down the TTL power settings? They don't tell you what they used...

The profoto does (AirRemote), you can fire the flash ('s) in full TTL then switch to manual, it will show and retain the last used power setting from the TTL (Hybrid TTL) shot. Like you I use a meter (308S) to setup my strobes, only time it's a pain like today was I have to place my stands, meter each strobe to prep for my shot, IF I had the profoto I could place the stands, select TTL hope it meters the scene how I like (ratios apply if you wish) and flip to M to tweak the setting.

Edit: From Profoto's site "For more precise control, switch to Hybrid Mode. This allows you to first shoot with TTL to get a technically perfect exposure, and then switch to Manual Mode with the same readings and settings and do whatever creative adjustments you feel like doing. It is a huge time saver. Plus you can leave that light meter at home!"

 

[sk66]

Edit: From Profoto's site "For more precise control, switch to Hybrid Mode. This allows you to first shoot with TTL to get a technically perfect exposure, and then switch to Manual Mode with the same readings and settings and do whatever creative adjustments you feel like doing. It is a huge time saver. Plus you can leave that light meter at home!"

Well that's cool...

 

[arthurbikemad]

Agree, shame my gang of 600's don't do that I want them but just can't bring myself to part with £3,200 (pair) plus £320 for the AirRemote given I'd only use them once in a blue moon haha

Oh and then you know your gonna want a 3rd one

 

[Jayst84]

There is truth to the view that going strobist is "amateurish"... at least in perception. And do not kid yourself, perceptions matter. (I don't think McNally has changed this at all).
Personally, I would probably choose AD360's and do the job solo... but that would come off as much more amateurish than someone who rolls in with a set of studio heads with power packs and big modifiers, plus a couple of assistants to move/adjust the lights on demand, manage the people, and to watch for clothing/hair/makeup issues.

As long as the job gets done to a good standard, and the clients keep rebooking me, I don't really care who thinks I look amateurish for not using a mains power cable.

 

[mike weeks]

There is truth to the view that going strobist is "amateurish"... at least in perception. And do not kid yourself, perceptions matter. (I don't think McNally has changed this at all).
Personally, I would probably choose AD360's and do the job solo... but that would come off as much more amateurish than someone who rolls in with a set of studio heads with power packs and big modifiers, plus a couple of assistants to move/adjust the lights on demand, manage the people, and to watch for clothing/hair/makeup issues.

Personally I find people book you on the strength of your work, not the equipment you use

Mike

 

[Garry Edwards]

PersonallyI find people book you on the strength of your work, not the equipment you use

Mike

I agree. I frequently come across people who "need" to buy the latest body, or the latest and most expensive lenses, because of their perception that it makes them look "professionaol" - whatever that means, personally I put it down to rationalisation of their wish to buy the latest toys, the clients simply don't care about the tools used.
I will say though, that for this kind of job, although this very expensive gear added nothing IMO to the result, I wouldn't dream of using flashguns for it, for the reasons already given - no modelling lamps, low power, slow recycling. I would have used any studio lighting kit instead.

 

[HoppyUK]

I agree. I frequently come across people who "need" to buy the latest body, or the latest and most expensive lenses, because of their perception that it makes them look "professionaol" - whatever that means, personally I put it down to rationalisation of their wish to buy the latest toys, the clients simply don't care about the tools used.
I will say though, that for this kind of job, although this very expensive gear added nothing IMO to the result, I wouldn't dream of using flashguns for it, for the reasons already given - no modelling lamps, low power, slow recycling. I would have used any studio lighting kit instead.

LOL some truth in that Garry

But I've also heard (on video) photographers explaining that they need a Hasselblad, not for image quality but for client perception. That perhaps says more about the world of fashion and head-shots though

 

[Garry Edwards]

LOL some truth in that Garry

But I've also heard (on video) photographers explaining that they need a Hasselblad, not for image quality but for client perception. That perhaps says more about the world of fashion and head-shots though

Yes, but fashion is a bit different. Fashion can be a nightmare for photographers, there's enough to do just getting the shots right, but it gets far worse when there's an agency involved and they send over their failed photographer who knows nothing Creative Director to "help", people representing the client, account manager and a few other useless people from the agency on an awayday (to boost the cost to the client). In this situation, the photographer may feel that he needs to show off a bit.

This thread seems to be about a very small studio shoot of a few people with very basic lighting and no lighting control - not a critical comment, because there's room for all kinds of photography, my point though is that this isn't the kind of photography that will in any way benefit from whatever special features are claimed for this particular equipment.

 

[HoppyUK]

Yes, but fashion is a bit different. Fashion can be a nightmare for photographers, there's enough to do just getting the shots right, but it gets far worse when there's an agency involved and they send over their failed photographer who knows nothing Creative Director to "help", people representing the client, account manager and a few other useless people from the agency on an awayday (to boost the cost to the client). In this situation, the photographer may feel that he needs to show off a bit.

This thread seems to be about a very small studio shoot of a few people with very basic lighting and no lighting control - not a critical comment, because there's room for all kinds of photography, my point though is that this isn't the kind of photography that will in any way benefit from whatever special features are claimed for this particular equipment.

LOL So right Garry. I've been on shoots like that, as one of the hangers-on. One in particular, friggin loads of people there for no good reason. I got the invoice too, that was three times the basic cost of the day shoot. Hairdresser and make-up artist, assistant, secretary, food for half of London, several gallons of wine, and enough background paper to cover a football pitch.

 

[simonbarker]

This thread seems to be about a very small studio shoot of a few people with very basic lighting and no lighting control - not a critical comment, because there's room for all kinds of photography, my point though is that this isn't the kind of photography that will in any way benefit from whatever special features are claimed for this particular equipment.

I'd say this thread is more about someone expressing how much they enjoyed using high end equipment and then several others pointing out the technical mistakes in that. They aren't technically wrong but in the ops shoes this would discourage me from contributing in the future.

 

[Kodiak Qc]

I'd say this thread is more about someone expressing how much they enjoyed using high end equipment and then several others pointing out the technical mistakes in that. They aren't technically wrong but in the ops shoes this would discourage me from contributing in the future.

+1

 

[HoppyUK]

I'd say this thread is more about someone expressing how much they enjoyed using high end equipment and then several others pointing out the technical mistakes in that. They aren't technically wrong but in the ops shoes this would discourage me from contributing in the future.

Well said Simon. The OP got the job done and enjoyed doing it. Credit for that

 

[Phil V]

I'd say this thread is more about someone expressing how much they enjoyed using high end equipment and then several others pointing out the technical mistakes in that. They aren't technically wrong but in the ops shoes this would discourage me from contributing in the future.

Indeed, at the cost of hire, the OP had themselves a blast and no doubt delivered a suitable outcome. Nowt wrong with that AFAICS

 

[inkiboo]

I'd say this thread is more about someone expressing how much they enjoyed using high end equipment and then several others pointing out the technical mistakes in that. They aren't technically wrong but in the ops shoes this would discourage me from contributing in the future.

Opinions are like bumholes; everyone has one. I could have shot it on a D700 rather than a D800 but don't see people picking holes in that.

Was it overkill? Yes.
Did I make things easier when I was changing the lights based on different faces, glasses etc? Absolutely.
Could I have done it manually? Yup.

Either way, won't stop me contributing in the future.

 

[sk66]

Either way, won't stop me contributing in the future.

Great! I was in the middle of writing an apology in case my posts seemed to be an attack... never mind then.

 

[sk66]

Personally I find people book you on the strength of your work, not the equipment you use

Mike

Hopefully so... hopefully they base it on a thorough/knowledgeable portfolio screening and some competition.
But that's not the end of it, and we all (should) know it. But to an extent it depends on the knowledge/experience of the client.

You roll up to an outdoor wedding with an entry camera, a kit superzoom, and no lights... To anyone with any knowledge/experience that would be "unprofessional." It doesn't matter if the light is good, there's plenty of shade/canopy, and you don't *need* lights to pull off a decent shoot.
The same with this studio shoot. It could probably have been done equally well (to the requirements) with a compact and some very cheap DIY lighting... but no-one in their right mind would suggest doing so as "professional."

I know several who are using CSC/EVIL systems to shoot weddings and the like... I honestly don't "get it." Sure, they are making improvements in those systems... but they are also making improvements everywhere else. "The standard" for that type of work (and most "professional work" IMO) is at least 35mm quality/capability, and as capabilities increase so do the standards/expectations. To "stay in the same place" because it's more convenient/cost effective is to be left behind...

 

[simonbarker]

Either way, won't stop me contributing in the future.

Glad to hear, I didn't mean to say that you were going to run off or that those who responded were being bastards about it but it was refreshing to see some genuine enthusiasm.

Meh words are hard, I think everyone got the gist of what I meant anyway.