Profoto B1 500 AirTTL; wow

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Hired from Calumet a location kit consisting of three Profoto B1 500 AirTTLs along with the AirTTL for Nikon. All I can say is wow oh wow; for producing 185 portraits across two days it was absolutely stunning. Setup, point, snap and done. Very, very impressive and made my life so much easier.

Playing around in manual mode the B1 500s are equally impressive. Only negative is the cost but given how good they are it's understandable.
 

I have an extensive system from that maker and I share your enthusiasm!
I can assure you that the invested money is perfectly justified as it saves
you time in so many ways in your operations.
 
We only do photoshoots like this once every 9 months so it really wouldn't make too much sense buying the kit sadly.
 
We only do photoshoots like this once every 9 months so it really wouldn't make too much sense buying the kit sadly.

I don't spend a week without thanking the devil team that cooked these tools!
 
Profoto make some good equipment, no doubt about that.

But, with the greatest respect, this is a "production line" event photogragraphy-style shoot with flat lighting in a small space, and whatever qualities a particular brand of lighting may have, it doesn't make a scrap of difference with this type of shoot.

Using this level of expense on this kind of shoot is similar to hiring a Ferrari to pop out to the nearest shop for some milk.
 
But you will enjoy the ride - lol
Right Pete!
it doesn't make a scrap of difference with this type of shoot.
It does! …in the sense of regular WB and steady output!
Using this level of expense on this kind of shoot is similar to hiring a Ferrari to pop out to the nearest shop for some milk.
Being very well aware of that, the OP clearly said that renting it in his case is a better idea! (and I too!)
I see fixed positions, indoors, mains power, and "static" subjects.... I don't see any significant benefit to the B1's, or TTL for that matter.
Maybe not if one stay in studio all the time, but you have to do location work as well then…
 
Profoto make some good equipment, no doubt about that.

But, with the greatest respect, this is a "production line" event photogragraphy-style shoot with flat lighting in a small space, and whatever qualities a particular brand of lighting may have, it doesn't make a scrap of difference with this type of shoot.

Using this level of expense on this kind of shoot is similar to hiring a Ferrari to pop out to the nearest shop for some milk.

For the difference in hire cost it was worth spending the extra. We had individuals, pairs and group shots up to 8 people so given it was a production line with limited time and that the light in that room was fairly variable.

Yes it could have been done all manually and with lesser equipment but my comment was based on how easy it was to setup and use.
 
Only negative is the cost but given how good they are it's understandable.

I think at that price it's only fair they should be excellent, which of course they are and it's why there's a ton of cheap copies.
 
Such a small room and white walls. How did you go about controlling the extraneous light that would inevitably be bouncing around the room?
 
That's a lot of light for a small area as said, guess you have to do these things if you can, however I agree you could buy all of that for the price of one B1 and get consistent results, tbh I get great results with three speedlights in those settings for portrait work.

I guess from your post you ran these in TTL?
 
fantastic lights aren't they? My set are the best things I've ever invested in.

The precise shot to shot consistency,and 'it just works' factor pays itself off in spades when you're using them regularly - and what makes them absolutely ideal for this sort of work as well as more creative or location shoots.
 
Right Pete!

It does! …in the sense of regular WB and steady output!

Being very well aware of that, the OP clearly said that renting it in his case is a better idea! (and I too!)
Maybe not if one stay in studio all the time, but you have to do location work as well then…
fantastic lights aren't they? My set are the best things I've ever invested in.

The precise shot to shot consistency,and 'it just works' factor pays itself off in spades when you're using them regularly - and what makes them absolutely ideal for this sort of work as well as more creative or location shoots.
Precise shot to shot energy consistency and colour temperature consistency is indeed very important - but things have moved on in the last few years, and if we take the "professional" flashes sold on Ebay/Amazon out of the equasion, there are now very modestly priced studio flash heads that have 1/10th stop or less flash to flash energy consistency, and flash to flash colour temperature inconsistency that's simply too small to measure - or in other words, less than 10 degrees K.
For the difference in hire cost it was worth spending the extra. We had individuals, pairs and group shots up to 8 people so given it was a production line with limited time and that the light in that room was fairly variable.

Yes it could have been done all manually and with lesser equipment but my comment was based on how easy it was to setup and use.
But using TTL in a studio setting is a step backwards, not forwards.
 
Yes it could have been done all manually and with lesser equipment but my comment was based on how easy it was to setup and use.
'it just works' factor pays itself off in spades when you're using them regularly - and what makes them absolutely ideal for this sort of work
Maybe I'm a bit thick. Other than not dealing w/ power cables, how is it any easier than any other setup? TTL is nice, but it (potentially) introduces different problems.
 
Other than not dealing w/ power cables, how is it any easier than any other setup? TTL is nice, but it (potentially) introduces different problems.

You got that right Steven but a knowledgeable craftsman will just tweak its working
practice and TTL turns into a magic wand!
 

You got that right Steven but a knowledgeable craftsman will just tweak its working
practice and TTL turns into a magic wand!
If it is an event where many things are changing quickly/often, then yeah... TTL *is* a magic wand I wouldn't want to be without.

But for a situation like this, what you save on the front end not setting up your manual ratios you loose in compensating for variables thru-out the shoot (dark clothes/light clothes, dark skin/light skin, etc). Yeah, you can probably put it into matrix metering and be within .5 stop for 90% of the images... and you can easily roll in some EC to compensate for light on light and be "close enough" the first shot. But I don't see the advantage.
And depending on the camera/system used... EC might be a bit more involved than a single quick change.
 
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Maybe I'm a bit thick. Other than not dealing w/ power cables, how is it any easier than any other setup? TTL is nice, but it (potentially) introduces different problems.

In the most basic sense you're correct, in terms of actual user experience Profoto is very easy to get along with.
 
If it is an event where many things are changing quickly/often, then yeah... TTL *is* a magic wand I wouldn't want to be without.

But for a situation like this, what you save on the front end not setting up your manual ratios you loose in compensating for variables thru-out the shoot (dark clothes/light clothes, dark skin/light skin, etc). Yeah, you can probably put it into matrix metering and be within .5 stop for 90% of the images... and you can easily roll in some EC to compensate for light on light and be "close enough" the first shot. But I don't see the advantage.
And depending on the camera/system used... EC might be a bit more involved than a single quick change.

Could you repeat that in only one breath? ;-)

Steve, trust me, it is a great time and stress saver…
just like being a guitar player transposing a chord sheet on sight… it is still the same
tune but just with a twist! (…shall we hum a few bars?)
Did I say something about a knowledgeable craftsman? It won't do anything for you but
what ever you wanna do can be done faster… if one knows what, that is!"
 
If you mean in terms of reliability, I would hope so.
Not really just in terms of reliability - it's just very well thought out, designed and built equipment. Little annoyances that there are with other brands simply don't exist.

Certainly out of the London market I could see how profoto could be regarded as a overkill or luxury lighting setup, or indeed unobtainably expensive, however in the london advertising and commercial world it is incredibly rare to see any other brand - because every single element of profoto's system is incredibly well thought out, so you simply don't need to think about HOW to use it at all - so you can concentrate on the photography. And that's worth a helluva lot of money to us in time savings on shoots.
 

As I said, I don't spend a week without thanking the devil team that cooked these tools!
 
Not really just in terms of reliability - it's just very well thought out, designed and built equipment. Little annoyances that there are with other brands simply don't exist.

Certainly out of the London market I could see how profoto could be regarded as a overkill or luxury lighting setup, or indeed unobtainably expensive, however in the london advertising and commercial world it is incredibly rare to see any other brand - because every single element of profoto's system is incredibly well thought out, so you simply don't need to think about HOW to use it at all - so you can concentrate on the photography. And that's worth a helluva lot of money to us in time savings on shoots.
I do understand the difference with a "confusing" system... but other than some various import TTL triggers, I haven't found much that sends me looking for the manual... And I understand the difference between a system that is integrated well (i.e. modifier attachments, radios, etc) as opposed to one that is more of a hack together.

But these days it seems you have to buy very cheap, or mix together a mosh of equipment, to run into any real issues (other than long term durability/reliability). I am in the US; maybe we have a lot more options and I'm just taking that for granted...
 
TTL for a fixed studio shoot

Of course, fixed it is
nonsense! TTL is just a way to get a luminosity correct reading
of a whole situation, what ever the no. of heads including eventually some ratios, so
one may tweak remotely all and/or each at will.

Come on guys, do your homework!
 

Of course, fixed it is
nonsense! TTL is just a way to get a luminosity correct reading
of a whole situation, what ever the no. of heads including eventually some ratios, so
one may tweak remotely all and/or each at will.

Come on guys, do your homework!
How is that different from remote power settings in manual? There are a lot more radio triggers with that capability than there are with TTL...
 
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Choose the one that fits your need! When someone tells me that this
or that may be useful, I listen and research later. I would never think
to be close to anything.

I use the Profoto TTL, I have an extended set of PocketWizards and
they all have their place and utility.

I am leaving this thread, good luck!
 
If you mean in terms of reliability, I would hope so.

Reliability is hard to gauge unless you're a large studio, rental house or repair shop.

I meant as in terms of the whole package, all the little bits add up to make a fairly nice 'it just works' system. There's plenty of things I think they could do better on but that's nitpicking; at this level the expectation is excellence (whether we're talking about Profoto, Broncolor or whoever when you're spending four to five figures) so I can understand the ops enthusiasm.
 
Reliability is hard to gauge unless you're a large studio, rental house or repair shop.

I meant as in terms of the whole package, all the little bits add up to make a fairly nice 'it just works' system. There's plenty of things I think they could do better on but that's nitpicking; at this level the expectation is excellence (whether we're talking about Profoto, Broncolor or whoever when you're spending four to five figures) so I can understand the ops enthusiasm.
And I'd love to have a set of B1's... The discussion of TTL really has nothing to do with the specific kit.
Had the original post been "rented a set of B1's to get a feel for them; great kit!" I probably wouldn't have said anything... or maybe "not much of a test for B1's."

My only question regarding the B1's/B2's is the recessed bulb w/ large modifiers... I rather doubt the dome is the same as a bare bulb. But I haven't used them so I can't really say.
 
And I'd love to have a set of B1's... The discussion of TTL really has nothing to do with the specific kit.
Had the original post been "rented a set of B1's to get a feel for them; great kit!" I probably wouldn't have said anything... or maybe "not much of a test for B1's."

I didn't really take it that way but I see your point.

My only question regarding the B1's/B2's is the recessed bulb w/ large modifiers... I rather doubt the dome is the same as a bare bulb. But I haven't used them so I can't really say.

It's not, regardless of what anyone says it has a narrower angle than a bare bulb but opinions differ on how much that matters. I'd personally opt for using the glass dome attachment or a pro/acute/d1/compact head if I needed a large modifier or beauty dish. I seem to recall even on a 2x3 softbox the coverage wasn't especially uniform but I no longer have any D1 heads to check (probably should have compared when I had the chance).
 
My only question regarding the B1's/B2's is the recessed bulb w/ large modifiers... I rather doubt the dome is the same as a bare bulb. But I haven't used them so I can't really say.
it's not quite the same with the modifiers like the Magnum reflector or narrow beam reflector. You can actually buy glass dome kits for the B1 and D1 heads, to have a 'pro head' style sticking out tube. With softboxes with the inner baffle in, etc it makes very little difference in my testing.

Nice bit of kit of course. Wouldn't bother with them for this though, not like you need power or TTL, so I just use speedlites, far less kit to lug to the place (and a lot cheaper for me).
speedlights for a high volume headshot job like this would have been an utter nightmare - been there a very long time ago, done that, never again hah! You really don't get the same consistency out of speedlights either, or a lot of the time quite the same quality of light either, depending on what modifiers you're using.

A B1 is about £30 a day to rent, bargain :)
 
speedlights for a high volume headshot job like this would have been an utter nightmare - been there a very long time ago, done that, never again hah! You really don't get the same consistency out of speedlights either, or a lot of the time quite the same quality of light either, depending on what modifiers you're using.

A B1 is about £30 a day to rent, bargain :)

I used to use studio heads for them (Bowens) way too much hassle. Shot 170 heads last Wednesday using Speedlites. Easy. (I wouldn't call 185 heads in two days very high volume).

Consistency - good enough that no client on that kind of job is going to notice (or I'd argue, 99.8% of photographers). Quality of light depends on the modifier, as you say, not the light.
 
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it's not quite the same with the modifiers like the Magnum reflector or narrow beam reflector. You can actually buy glass dome kits for the B1 and D1 heads, to have a 'pro head' style sticking out tube. With softboxes with the inner baffle in, etc it makes very little difference in my testing.

Agree. For even coverage in a softbox, you need a double-diffuser. That makes far more difference than a bare-bulb head, or sticking a Stofen on to a speedlight. On balance, I prefer Profoto's style of recessed flash tube. It mostly makes b****r-all difference but does ensure that the modelling lamp shows exactly the same effect as the flash.

speedlights for a high volume headshot job like this would have been an utter nightmare - been there a very long time ago, done that, never again hah! You really don't get the same consistency out of speedlights either, or a lot of the time quite the same quality of light either, depending on what modifiers you're using.

A B1 is about £30 a day to rent, bargain :)

Agree with this too. Speedlights are great, and I use them a lot and sometimes mix them with studio heads situations that play to their strengths - mainly their small size so you can hide them away or position behind things. But for a main light, if a studio head is an option I'll take that every time. I also wouldn't want to rock up for a professional shoot with a couple of Yongnuos and have the client say "my make's got one of those." It looks amateurish - because it is.
 
I also wouldn't want to rock up for a professional shoot with a couple of Yongnuos and have the client say "my make's got one of those." It looks amateurish - because it is.

Yea, just like all the wedding guests who say, "my mate's got a 5D / 1D / 15 grand of L lenses"... wedding photographers must feel pretty amateurish.

There's nothing amateurish about using gear designed for professional use. Especially if it produces exactly the same result as another piece of professional gear. There are obviously a lot of advantages to using studio heads - they wouldn't exist if there weren't. But a lot of the time a Speedlite will do exactly the same job (or better in some cases of course), with less hassle. It's not amateurish to use gear you know will get the job done.
 
Yea, just like all the wedding guests who say, "my mate's got a 5D / 1D / 15 grand of L lenses"... wedding photographers must feel pretty amateurish.

There's nothing amateurish about using gear designed for professional use. Especially if it produces exactly the same result as another piece of professional gear. There are obviously a lot of advantages to using studio heads - they wouldn't exist if there weren't. But a lot of the time a Speedlite will do exactly the same job (or better in some cases of course), with less hassle. It's not amateurish to use gear you know will get the job done.

If you're advocating speedlights as the weapon of choice for shoots like the one I imagine being described here, then I think that's poor advice. I can't think of a single benefit, but quite a few downsides - slow recycle leading to missed frames or underexposed frames, no modelling lamp, danger of over-heating and shut-down (or even meltdown), potentially underpowered. Speedlights are not even easier to transport as its the stands and softboxes that are the big items (though your Bowens heads may be quite hefty).
 
If you're advocating speedlights as the weapon of choice for shoots like the one I imagine being described here, then I think that's poor advice. I can't think of a single benefit, but quite a few downsides - slow recycle leading to missed frames or underexposed frames, no modelling lamp, danger of over-heating and shut-down (or even meltdown), potentially underpowered. Speedlights are not even easier to transport as its the stands and softboxes that are the big items (though your Bowens heads may be quite hefty).

Not advocating them, just saying what I use. I swapped from the Bowens (yes, heavy bastards) to Speedlites for most mass-headshot type jobs because it just made sense for me.

Much easier to transport: Tiny lights obviously in comparison. Safe to use smaller stands. No cables. Smaller, lighter modifiers, etc. etc.
Easier to pack down and shift halfway through the day if need be, because the venue has ballsed up their planning.
Fewer OH&S issues: No cables, no hot lamps, no mains electricity. No dealing with venues who insist everything has PAT certificates (or whatever they are here in Oz) before it's plugged into their wall.
So far, zero connectivity issues, compared to my Skyports which were a consistent pain in the arse. (That's even more personal of course as there are myriad ways of connecting any kind of light, that's just what I had).
Of course, recycling is instant (doesn't happen) if you're not shooting on full power, same as any light.

Works for me for most of the work I do. Then I take studio heads to the jobs that require them. Simple enough.

Anyway, back on topic, how about those Profotos? They, or something similar are likely going to be on my shopping list in the not too distant future.
 
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I love how most of the discussion has been about TTL. Of course you don't need it for this setup but it did make things easier so no reason not to use it.
 
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