Professionals.

I thought that:

Photographer: one who takes photographs
Professional: someone who gets paid for whatever they do
Amateur: does it for love

none of these define quality
if I can make a living taking "awful" pictures, then I'm still a professional photographer
if I enjoy taking high quality photographs but the question of payment never raises its ugly head then I'm an amateur photgrapher

and I suppose by extension, if I make a bit (of money, less smut, please) on the side from my photography then I'm a semi-pro

separate all the above from the professions, such as doctor, lawyer, dentist, where qualifications are required in order to practise (and why do they practice? aren't they any good at it yet?)

as far as I know there are no pre-requisites to setting up as an professional tog - if you can do the work and get the money - you're in!

imho
ymmv
caveat emptor
 
paulpierce said:
Do any of the professional photographers, see any value in a society membership like the Royal Photographic Society, the equivalent of which is needed to work "professionally" in some other occupations?
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Only if I needed to attract the gullible.

SWPP and the like will accept anyone with the money to join, they offer no protection and no guarantee about the quality of the photographer.

RPS is a little different in that you need to be judged before you get the accreditation but that has limited value in a commercial context - it simply says this tog took some good photos but doesn't say anything about how long it took, how they worked under pressure, etc...
 
From my point of view as a armature/ hobbyist photographer or what ever you want to call it can I ask the pros on here why shouldn’t I set up my own website to show off my work???

I have a website www.photo-motorsport.co.uk I run purely out of enjoyment. I enjoy going to motorsport events and equally enjoy photography and I see my site as away of combining both of my favourite pastimes. I decided to set up my site as its something I can call my own and be proud of instead of using photo bucket all the time.

I do not call myself a pro and never will all my pics are taken from spectator areas on events unlike a lot of people who have a camera and try to stand where ever they like.

On the issue of selling pics I could put up 10 or more links to websites where people are trying to sell pics and to be honest they look like they have been taken by a 5 year old but I don’t think I would be fair to do. On my site I do not try and sell pics. That said I have sold 3 pics in over 2 years where people have told be they like the pic I have of them on an event over pics taken by a pros and to me I think that is fair enough.

To finish I do understand why a lot of pros might feel threatened my this boom of people setting up sites etc but at the end of the day if you are a pro should your work not be a lot better than some armature pretending to be a pro? And don’t forget everyone has to start off somewhere you never know some of these people in 10 years time could be very successful at what they do.

Chris
 
pxl8 said:
Only if I needed to attract the gullible.

SWPP and the like will accept anyone with the money to join, they offer no protection and no guarantee about the quality of the photographer.

RPS is a little different in that you need to be judged before you get the accreditation but that has limited value in a commercial context - it simply says this tog took some good photos but doesn't say anything about how long it took, how they worked under pressure, etc...
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Its the same with other professions it can seem like your paying money for nothing. I think photography is a little different to other professions that need regulating, in that you have a portfolio so what the client can expect is very visible to them.
 
chrisc said:
From my point of view as a armature/ hobbyist photographer or what ever you want to call it can I ask the pros on here why shouldn’t I set up my own website to show off my work???
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I don't think anyone objected to that - it was the use of the word professional that was the bone of contention. I'd encourage anyone and everyone to sell prints from their website, it's easy to set up and manage and for the amateur tog can raise a few quid for new gear which is always useful. As a professional I don't feel threatened by it at all and don't consider it taking paid work away from my pocket.

Nor do I worry about the weekend warriors setting up as pros and touting for wedding work. I do feel sorry for the brides when it all goes wrong as it often does :(
 
pxl8 said:
Nor do I worry about the weekend warriors setting up as pros and touting for wedding work. I do feel sorry for the brides when it all goes wrong as it often does :(
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The photographer for my Sisters wedding pulled out the weekend before she was getting married. Apparently a "professional", but any decent pro would have found a replacement.

It ended up with me doing the photo's, something that I didn't really want to do but she was in a bit of a situation.

I feel I acted "professionally" on the day, and processed the 100 shots through Lightroom and PS, after taking a couple of days off of work to get it done.

I wouldn't accept money for it though as I didn't want any comeback :D Admittedly, her & husband did take me & the Mrs for a decent meal a few weeks later.

And no, I wouldn't want to do it again!
 
10 years ago I studied traditional film photogrpahy for two years. Now in my mature years (still the right sde of 50..just!) I am studying a Professional Photography Degree. One of the first things we discussed as a degree group was what is a professional photographer? You may be suprised to know that it is someone who gets paid for their photography service. It isn't who has the biggest and best kit or who has been doing it the longest. Someone may have a real flair for photography and be quite new to the subject others may have been in the business a long time but may not have quite the same eye, may be slightly old fashioned or not have an up to date digital skillset. A newbis may in the same respect have no skill whatsoever. At the end of the day if a customer sees a good portfolio by the photographer and is happy to commission the work to that photographer and they produce good work, there shouldn't be an issue.
 
10 years ago I studied traditional film photogrpahy for two years. Now in my mature years (still the right sde of 50..just!) I am studying a Professional Photography Degree. One of the first things we discussed as a degree group was what is a professional photographer? You may be suprised to know that it is someone who gets paid for their photography service. It isn't who has the biggest and best kit or who has been doing it the longest. Someone may have a real flair for photography and be quite new to the subject others may have been in the business a long time but may not have quite the same eye, may be slightly old fashioned or not have an up to date digital skillset. A newbis may in the same respect have no skill whatsoever. At the end of the day if a customer sees a good portfolio by the photographer and is happy to commission the work to that photographer and they produce good work, there shouldn't be an issue.
 
I am studying a Professional Photography Degree
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Has this replaced the previously offered photography degree or can you now choose whether you want a pro degree or not?

Since before I became a snapper, I have never really understood the mystique behind being a pro photographer and why so many people wish to been seen to be one. It's a great job and I love it, which is probably just as well as I do struggle to know what else I could manage to stick at.

But why does it carry more kudos with those that shoot but not for a living than other similar things. Are there people that catch fish and desperately want to be seen as a pro fisherman, or where is the fuss over being a pro potter?

It's weird! If you like taking pics, take pics, If you can't earn a living doing something else, have a desire to live in wonder about your financial future, or just like it that much, make it a job........

But that's all it is at the end of the day, a job. The passion, the wonder and the excitement needs to be there either way, or it wont be there at all.
 
I've just read this thread from the start.

I am a retired professional photographer.

Before I retired I worked to please my customers, who in turn, if pleased paid me for my work.

I now work to please myself for no payment.

I became a pro. when I noticed people putting their hands in their pockets and offering me money to take a picture!

Funny thing is my present employer(me) is far harder to please than the previous ones.

I think that if you set and attain standards that are accepted by your peers and the GGP as that of a professional then you have the right to call yourself one.
 
andrewc said:
The term 'profession' implies to me at least that whoever earns a high proportion of their income from photography.
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Professional, from profession, from profess. The origin of profession comes from way back, and was vows which were taken entering a religious order. I think we see some of the same thing today - people "professing" to be good at something, and laying claim to some special knowledge or skill.

It's pretty much universal that people will try to erect barriers around what they do, to give the impression that it is special and protect their position. Look at lawyers - much of law is easily understood and common sense, but it is portrayed as anything but - erecting a wall, limiting the members, protecting high prices.

My own feeling is that use of the term "professional" carries no guarantee of quality, nor of satisfaction for a customer. Then it's quite a meaningless badge, and no problem for anyone to use it. Like football - there are many professional footballers in the world, but we all make up our own mind who is good and bad. So too with photography - see the term professional as simply a self-conferred badge, and proceed on the basis of caveat emptor.

As regards "doing no-one any favours", I very much disagree. If I can agree with someone new and talented to do a certain level of work and we are both happy with the quality, that is a good thing in my opinion. They may not be as good as those that would like to restrict use of the world "professional" only to themselves, but if I get 90% of the quality for 50% of the price, and I am happy with that, so be it. Some buy the D3, some buy the D300 - both are happy.

Interesting discussion though - those are my views, and interesting to read that others may feel much more strongly about "protecting" the application of those words.
 
I am an amateur, I am pleased to be an amateur but it took me a couple of years of experimenting to realise that this was something that would only ever be a keen hobby for me. I have a website, but it says in several places it is an 'amateur website' but I like to think the look and content is 'getting there' in terms of professional look and feel.

As a photographer I feel happier with this reflection and I think in referral to the general discussion of the thread, some people do need to reflect on who they are and what they are doing.

Thankfully I am going into a career where you have to be professionally qualified to legally do your day job.
 
Ok guys, here's what it means to be "professional".

It's sunday night, you're all sat at home. Hopefully warm and comfy with a drink in one hand and probably either a mouse or a TV remote in the other.

I'm here in the studio shooting tape, grip bags, padded envelopes and a seemingly endless list of p&p materials. I'm trying to make these things look a little interesting, at the same time they need to be fairly frank product shots and ideally the whole shoot will stay under the 3 hours that I've priced the job at.

So, next time you're mulling the glamour of being a pro snapper..... think tape. :lol::lol:

S_A_McNeil00010.jpg


Still love it and wouldn't change for the world mind. :D
 
dazzajl said:
.....I'm trying to make these things look a little interesting.....,
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Please don't take this personally Dazz.....I don't feel captivated by the image and there is certainly no rush of blood to my loins.

If my measured repsonse to your shots disappoints you, then sorry. If you don't give a toss whether I buy tape or not, then good.

Bob

PS...Am I likely to see this entered for next years calendar competition?
 
and there is certainly no rush of blood to my loins.
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Well Bob, I have to say I'm happier reading that post than I would be one saying the opposite. ;) :lol:
 
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