Professionals.

Its alright, soupdragon got a similar one ;)
 
Goodness, there is enough angst in this thread to power a small town. I don't really get the need to stress over it all TBH......

...and yes I suppose I may lose some work to newcomers that take iffy shots, who wouldn't have had the nerve without the digi safety net. It's not really the market I'm after though so I don't stress.

As for tags and why people need them..... whatever.

I'm a photographer.
I love to take pictures.
Photography is my profession.

Those three statements will all stand independently and don't require support from each other. To me the thing that defines a photographer is a passion for making images. The more passion you have the higher up the ladder you belong. Some days I'd be top dog, number one snapper. Others, I'd barely be hanging on to the bottom rung. :)
 
Surely being "professional" is something you should aspire to be?

It's not just about what ratio of income you make from that given profession but how you portray yourself, your services and your results.

Being a budding amateur who takes on the odd commission doesn't stop you from acting in a professional manner and producing professional results. So why shouldn't you been considered a "professional"? I'm sure pleased clients don't go around suggesting that you acted in a very "amateurish" way even though they were pleased with the results? No, they'll say you were professional.

If you as a FULL TIME professional can't handle the thought of a have-go-Joe producing good results and pleasing clients then maybe you should look a little closer to home to find the cause of your angst?
 
true true. "being professional" certainly comes into it at some point. I know there's 'professionals' out there that don't act it
 
No I dont aspire to be a professional - just to get professional results. It's different and something everyone on this forum strives for no matter what pays the bills.
 
asab said:
No I dont aspire to be a professional - just to get professional results. It's different and something everyone on this forum strives for no matter what pays the bills.
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Which is exactly what I was getting at. Being "professional" isn't just about what you do to earn a living. It's about your outlook toward what you do. Hence aspiring to act in a professional manner and produce professional results.
 
but that should also mean someone who is an amateur capable of pro results shouldnt be stopped from offering services for a fee. I guess the issue here is where people advertise themselves as professionals but produce a load of crud and expect to be paid for it. I dont think any pro tog would wish to stop anyone making a bit of cash if the photography justifies it.
 
Interesting thread, it seems professional means different things to different people.

Do any of the professional photographers, see any value in a society membership like the Royal Photographic Society, the equivalent of which is needed to work "professionally" in some other occupations?
 
asab said:
but that should also mean someone who is an amateur capable of pro results shouldnt be stopped from offering services for a fee.
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I've not mentioned anything about being paid to do the work so I don't see how it would imply this?

Does it also impy that a "professional" absolutely always charge for their services, unless of course they act like a complete arse at the shoot? No, because that's stupid!
 
I have always stayed away from the RPS and any other body that judges or grades photography on artistic content.

I just don't see how you can validate judgement on that basis. From what I've seen over my career, people decide that they'd like the tag of FRPS, LRPS or whatever and shoot images to please the selection board. Totally pointless to me as I only ever think about pleasing two people with my images. The client if it's work, or me if it's not. :D
 
dazzajl said:
Totally pointless to me as I only ever think about pleasing two people with my images. The client if it's work, or me if it's not. :D
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At the end of the day... thats all that matters dazzajl, not anyone on here, not any selection boards or anyone else, so all this debate about whether someone is professional or not, is pointless IMO. If the person buying your images is happy, who cares!
 
mattyh said:
At the end of the day... thats all that matters dazzajl, not anyone on here, not any selection boards or anyone else, so all this debate about whether someone is professional or not, is pointless IMO. If the person buying your images is happy, who cares!
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you took the words out of my mouth.
 
Looking at some members website on this forum, thers are some that really should'nt be tagging themselves as Pro due to the standard of their work. There are others who don't but really should be or could if they wanted to but choose not to.

It all depends on how you define Pro.
For me, the label Pro has always meant working fulltime and earning a living from it...and if you can do that then usually your work must be of a good standard......if not, you'll sink.

I personally beleive Pro is about literally being that....turning up on time for jobs in the pouring rain and getting THE shot/shots and getting them back to the client in time. Handing over a high standard piece of work to the client and not just 'snapshots'

Best advice I was given..

Remember, 'Professional Photographers' get paid for their Photography - no exceptions working for free by its very definition is not professional

This is just how I see the label Pro.

If someone wants to call themselves a Pro then thats up to them, its not down to us to say you can or can't. If the client likes your work and is happy, so be it.

What I would say though is when that client calls you'll for a job , you'll have to back that Pro claim up...if you can't then word will travel that you can't and you only make yourself look silly.

Iain
 
I agree Iain. There is a lot more to being a pro than taking pro quality images. It is business attitude that means a tog can turn images into earnings.
 
soupdragon said:
Calling yourself a photographer implies you have attained some level of proficiency which sets you aside from the happy snapper.
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I don't think it does. I think it means that you take photographs, for pleasure or otherwise.

But if it makes you happier I will refer to myself as a 'Picture Box Monkey' from now on. :D
 
I will refer to myself as a 'Picture Box Monkey' from now on.
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Ooo oooh ooo, can I be one of them too please. :D
 
Bodie-Doyle6.jpg



...
 
People have seen some of my photos on my website and have asked me to take photos for them, and other have asked to buy some of the one on the website, and they asked me to put my name on these before having them printed and they put them up on the wall. I enjoy taking photos, and for this point I would call myself a photographer, I would love to make photography my profession in the means I would love to make a living from this. Which I do at the moment from nursing, which is my prefession. However I would like to think that I act like a professional when dealing with people regarding my photos.

Thread makes and interesting read. Everyone has their own ideas and opinions about all this, and thats what makes the world the place it is with us all been different.
 
I have always wondered how the Passport agency defines Professional Photographer because along with Doctors, Dentists, Pilots, Magistrates etc a person calling themselves a Pro Tog may countersign a passport application yet unlike all the other "professions" on the list the title appears to be entirely self defined.

Personally, I see a professional photographer as someone who receives income related to that activity. It doesn't have to be someone who gets their all or even the majority of their income from the activity and in my mind the term doesn't imply any degree of competency. After all a Taxi driver is often termed a "Professional Driver" - nuff said (antiflame disclaimer - I have experienced some very good taxi drivers)
 
Call yourself what you like IMHO.

Presumably someone that labels themselves as a professional is looking for customers to pay them money for services. One of the benefits customers have when hiring a photographer (as opposed to other trades such as plumbers, lawyers, etc) is the ability to view a portfolio before making a decision - if a photographer is displaying crap and someone still hires them, then I can't have much pity for that person.

As for people charging a pittance 'stealing' work from 'proper' photographers - that person was never going to pay the 'proper' photographers rate. All some customers see is the £££'s instead of the quality.

And there will always be customers who because of their situation simply can't afford a rate that would allow a photographer a full time income. What's wrong with other 'professionals' taking advantage of this market ?

When someone charges a pittance for their work, the only person they are hurting is themselves.
 
SimonTALM said:
I have always wondered how the Passport agency defines Professional Photographer because along with Doctors, Dentists, Pilots, Magistrates etc a person calling themselves a Pro Tog may countersign a passport application yet unlike all the other "professions" on the list the title appears to be entirely self defined.
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I doubt you would find many full time photographers using the term 'Professional Photographer'. Whenever I have to fill in my occupation I write 'Photographer'.
 
I guess these threads while away the time :D

I play guitar and got paid for it a few times. I even got paid for playing Frisbee once!

I consider myself neither a professional guitar player nor a professional Frisbee player.

However I am a guitar player and a Frisbee player

I also consider myself a photographer. Its my hobby and I love it.

Ain't much more to say really!

There are bigger things to worry about - aren't there? :D
 
mattyh said:
Can't believe this is still running :shake:
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It appears that whilst many contributors defamed my opening gambit for being a waste of time, they too had strong opinions of their own.
Of course there are always those that just want to fan the flames!
 
dazzajl said:
I have always stayed away from the RPS and any other body that judges or grades photography on artistic content.

I just don't see how you can validate judgement on that basis. From what I've seen over my career, people decide that they'd like the tag of FRPS, LRPS or whatever and shoot images to please the selection board. Totally pointless to me as I only ever think about pleasing two people with my images. The client if it's work, or me if it's not. :D
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^^^ Perfectly sums up my opinion, especially the end part.:):thumbs:
 
I class myself as a learner when it comes to photography. But i would class myself as professional IT Techie and Consultaunt. Basically because i have the know how and the grades :)

I have spent alot of years working on Computers and Notebooks, Wiping Hard-Drives and all sorts. Setting up networks, putting network adopters on etc etc....

T_G
 
dazzajl said:
I have always stayed away from the RPS and any other body that judges or grades photography on artistic content.

I just don't see how you can validate judgement on that basis. From what I've seen over my career, people decide that they'd like the tag of FRPS, LRPS or whatever and shoot images to please the selection board. Totally pointless to me as I only ever think about pleasing two people with my images. The client if it's work, or me if it's not. :D
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A big Harumph to that, well said and my philosophy exactly.

:clap:
 
Professionalism has nothing to do with whether you are paid or not.
Its about attitude, method, conduct and results...
You can't judge a togs work by the contents of a pay packet.
 
laser_jock99 said:
Can anyone post a link to some dire, quasi 'professional' photography websites. I'd like to see what all the fuss is about (and possibly have a laugh!).
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No, just no ;)
 
awp said:
Sadly, this statement isn't true in my experience. There are lots of people will employ these self named 'professionals' because they tend to be a lot cheaper than the real pros. Weddings being a good example. There are loads of people around these forums and elsewhere who think they are competent to take on paid work because they have a DSLR and a kit lens. If the 'employers' then have a bad experience it can reflect badly on the whole profession.
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fair comment :thumbs:
 
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