Product photography - kits

=ReBeL=

=ReBeL=

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Adrian
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Hello :thumbs:

It looks like I will have to test myself in product photography. I have never tried it before therefore I don't really have a great knowledge in this area. While I think I will be OK from the photography side of things, I have to buy studio equipement.

Becasue most of the products I will be photographing are small to medium size I am thinking about 30" light tent + lighting equippement. Would prefer to buy all the stuff in one kit, so I have found EZ Cube are making and selling kits. Here is the link so you can have a look

http://www.tabletopstudio.co.uk/

http://www.tabletopstudio.co.uk/Pages/Universal Kits.htm

The prices are between 300 and 400£, so not cheap.

I would like to ask people who used one of those are they any good, but also are there any other kits I should look on before I spend my money.

Like I said I would prefer to buy everything together: 30" light tent, 2 side lights (+probably top boom light), white (maybe graduated grey) background.

I do have DSLR camera, couple of lenses, tripod, remote control, etc

Any help will be greatly appreciated :thumbs:
 
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I edited my first post, link should work now. I don't know what happend.

I have seen that Smick shop as well, but their 30" kit is out of stock. Thanks anyway, Ozei.

:help:
 
What is it you're photographing?

You don't need to spend a fortune to do decent product shots against white; a roll of paper wide enough to accomodate what you're shooting, some sort of work surface equally big enough, a wireless trigger set, a speedlight and stand, a medium softbox (or similar diffuser) and a reflector will do the job, and the would probably come in under £100.
 
Well, that will be a range of things like jewellery, clothes, bags, fashion accessories, figurines and probably few other things as well.

It is quite possible that there will be many different things to be photographed and that this will be a quite regular thing. Also as I do not have a dedicated studio, the whole set needs to be easy to set, then remove and storaged. Quite a lot to ask, I know. That is the reason why I looked on complete kits at first.

While I can costruct my own light tent I still need to buy the whole lighting set, as in-build flash is useless for most photography. I looked into buying set of off camera flashes + stands, but as each of (even the simpler) 430's is about 200£ and I'd need about 3, I don't think I can afford that. The kits seems expenssive but still cheaper than dedicated flash set.
 
True, 70£ difference.

If I'm not mistaken the colour temperature is quite important when buying lighting for product photography, one is 5000K (natural light) other one 5400-5500K (flash). I need to read up on that.

Thanks :thumbs:
 
=ReBeL= said:
True, 70£ difference.

If I'm not mistaken the colour temperature is quite important when buying lighting for product photography, one is 5000K (natural light) other one 5400-5500K (flash). I need to read up on that.

Thanks :thumbs:
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A 400K change in temp shouldn't make much difference - you'd be on manual WB anyway.

More important IMO is whether or not the CFL bulbs are dimmable (some aren't) - it's far easier with a dimmer fitted to each lamp.
 
Ozei said:
A 400K change in temp shouldn't make much difference - you'd be on manual WB anyway.

More important IMO is whether or not the CFL bulbs are dimmable (some aren't) - it's far easier with a dimmer fitted to each lamp.
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Hmm never thought about dimmers TBH. I thought full light will be better than dimmed one.

Oh and yes, I will be shooting fully manual (WB, ISO and Manual mode) and editting in PS afterwards.
 
I think I will go for this

Universal 30" Product Photography Kit

and if needed I will add more light later (boom light, sparkle light for jewellery, etc). This should be enough to start with I think. Will also add one white background and the price will be 270£
 
=ReBeL= said:
Hmm never thought about dimmers TBH. I thought full light will be better than dimmed one.
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I've done some product photography with dimmable tungsten lamps (kit of three from Interfit) and the dimmers make it far easier to control the lighting. Without dimmers you need a lot more room to move the lamps around (to increase distance) or you need to add diffusion - both of which are a nuisance in a confined space.

A CFL kit fitted with inline dimmers would be good but I'm not sure where to get the dimmers from - the bulb manufacturer would probably be the best source of info. e.g. http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#dimmer
 
=ReBeL= said:
I think I will go for this

Universal 30" Product Photography Kit

and if needed I will add more light later (boom light, sparkle light for jewellery, etc). This should be enough to start with I think. Will also add one white background and the price will be 270£
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I'd get a third lamp to go with it. My experience is that three lamps are needed for many/most objects.
 
Ozei said:
I'd get a third lamp to go with it. My experience is that three lamps are needed for many/most objects.
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Do you mean three same lamps or 2 lamps + boom light?

Ozei said:
I've done some product photography with dimmable tungsten lamps (kit of three from Interfit) and the dimmers make it far easier to control the lighting. Without dimmers you need a lot more room to move the lamps around (to increase distance) or you need to add diffusion - both of which are a nuisance in a confined space.

A CFL kit fitted with inline dimmers would be good but I'm not sure where to get the dimmers from - the bulb manufacturer would probably be the best source of info. e.g. http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm#dimmer
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Hmm another thing I have not thought about - light control. Was thinking that light strenght will have to be the same for all the products, but it actually may vary depending on the product I want to photograph, ie the amount of light required to photograph jewellery might not be the same as the amount of light required to photograph a handbag.

As for the space required to move light a bit further from the light tent, I think I should be OK. My living room is not massive, but there is a bit of space.
 
=ReBeL= said:
Do you mean three same lamps or 2 lamps + boom light?
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I was thinking of something that will enable you to backlight the rear wall of the cube (as well as both sides) - in which case I'd keep the 3rd lamp the same as the other two. On the other hand that boom lamp looks pretty handy as well - better make it four then!


=ReBeL= said:
Hmm another thing I have not thought about - light control. Was thinking that light strenght will have to be the same for all the products, but it actually may vary depending on the product I want to photograph, ie the amount of light required to photograph jewellery might not be the same as the amount of light required to photograph a handbag.
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Yes, that's one reason for having dimmers on all lamps.
 
Thanks Ozei. 4 lights would be good, but I don't think I can stretch that far. If you had a choice 3 lamps or 2 lamps and boom light, which set would you choose?
 
=ReBeL= said:
Thanks Ozei. 4 lights would be good, but I don't think I can stretch that far. If you had a choice 3 lamps or 2 lamps and boom light, which set would you choose?
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Option A - 3 large lamps.
Option B - 2 large lamps and 1 boom lamp.

If I had to choose I think I'd plump for Option A - especially for the bigger products you've mentioned (e.g. clothes & bags). Apart from anything else I suspect sooner or later you'll want to backlight the rear wall of the cube so that it matches the intensity of the side walls. You can always find a way of reducing the intensity of the 3rd large lamp but you can't increase the intensity of the boom lamp (which is half the power).
 
Thank you for your help Ozei.

You confirmed what I was thinkning as well. Looks like 3 lamps is the most universal solution in my case. I have to wait for the funds now.

Thanks
 
You want to do a search on the site before buying anything , theres quite a few threads on here and they all same the same thing - continuous lighting is NOT the way to go , flash will give you a much better result.
 
Dogfish_magnet said:
You want to do a search on the site before buying anything , theres quite a few threads on here and they all same the same thing - continuous lighting is NOT the way to go , flash will give you a much better result.
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:thumbs:100% right.
Continuous lighting doesn't offer anywhere near the same power, consistency or ability to control the lighting, all of which are vital for any kind of product photography.

Speaking of control, light tents take away the ability to control the light too. They have their uses for producing easy, bland shots that illustrate shots of products instead of shots that sell them, but if you want shots that actually sell products you need flash equipment, the right light shapers and knowledge.
Before anyone says that creative results can be obtained with light tents, yes they can - up to a point - but it requires far more skill and care with a light tent than without one.
 
Guys I take your point on board and would like to thank you for that. I understand that buying one of those kits it is a sort of compromise.

I know i would prefer to work with flashes, but there is also a financial side of things. 3 x speedlight 430 is more than 600£ jus for the flashes. Plus wires stands and everything else.

I will have a look around here for any product photography threads when i get back home from work tonight, I couldnt find any before, and read some more. I belive i still have couple more days before I have to make up my mind.
 
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=ReBeL= said:
I know i would prefer to work with flashes, but there is also a financial side of things. 3 x speedlight 430 is more than 600£ jus for the flashes. Plus wires stands and everything else.
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I don't think that anyone would suggest doing it with hotshoe flashes, the way forward is to use studio flash, which is much more suitable in every way and half the cost.

Or at least, for half the cost you could buy a complete Lencarta 2 head SmartFlash kit, although you would need to add another couple of bits too.

Would give you a link, but the website it down at the mo.
 
What is the intended output and purpose of these images? Is each one going to be an individual work of still-life art, or are they all the same white-background-basic-product-shots for an on-line catalogue, shown small on thebay or something?

Million miles between them in photographic terms, and if it was that latter I'd probably bung them all in a tent anyway - fast, easy, cheap, does the job. But if you want to be a bit more creative and individual, you don't really stand a chance.

If you opt for a two-head studio kit, the light tent option is always there. But it doesn't work the other way around.
 
Thats the thing. There is no creativity required as all shots will be standard white-background product shots for on-line store.

Yes, the photos will be selling products, but all I need is standard product photography. The thing is I am not really sure what the volume will be yet, so thinking about going safer route first and buying relatively simple and not overexpensive kit first. If I see in few months this is not enough, I could always sell it and buy something different... or keep upgrading.

I will be doing it for free, so I wont be spending hours and hours on each shot.
 
I think we'll have to just agree to disagree about this - my take on it is that the fact that they are all going to have white backgrounds doesn't (shouldn't) mean that there will/can be no creativity, and the fact that they are designed to be selling shots should be telling you that you need more than just 'standard product photography'.

But that's just my view. You've now said that you're not even getting paid for these shots, so back to your original question...

I've looked at your links, and frankly if all you want to do is to produce 'standard product shots' with a light tent then my advice is to buy a light tent via Ebay for a lot less money and use a couple of desk lamps for the lighting. The light tents won't be any worse and desk lamps can produce the same results in terms of quality, in fact they will probably be better, because tungsten lights reproduce all colours accurately and cheap fluorescent lights can't.
 
Garry Edwards said:
I've looked at your links, and frankly if all you want to do is to produce 'standard product shots' with a light tent then my advice is to buy a light tent via Ebay for a lot less money and use a couple of desk lamps for the lighting.
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agreed. my ebay 50cm tent = £14.

that sites = £83.

quite a markup for the same thing.
 
OK, before we go any further I would like to explain my situation a little bit more. I think this is needed.

Friends of mine will be opening a new online store in few weeks time. They will be selling hand-made products (handbags, jewellery, clothes, lingerie, figurines, etc). Most of the products are exclusive and unique, but not stupidly overexpensive.

They also have access to photos of most of the products already, but some of the images are really poor (dark, small, dark background). The idea is to keep photographing the products as they come and go and keep updating the website with better (higher resolution) pictures. There could be dozen of photographs to take per week, or dozen per day. Nobody knows just yet.

I agreed to do all the photos myself. I provide my own equippement (which is nothing fancy BTW), my time and my knowledge (which is nothing fancy too :)). I want the website to succeed and because I know how expensive beginning are I agreed to do all of that for free for now.

Now, when I said the creativity is not required, what I meant is that the photos will be standard white-background product shots. There won't be any fancy background, colourful lights, etc. Yes, I do want the photos to look the best they can and yes I will do all I can to take the best possible photos.

I should also mention I am more photoshop junkee than photographer. I have only been taking half-descent shots with my DSLR only for last 3 years. Been playing with PS long before I started taking photos (and no, I am not a pro photoshop artist, a mere amateur I'd say).

You are probably thinking at this point that they have made a mistake taking on-board a guy like me (amateur with poor knowledge). Maybe they did, buy they did not have a great deal of choice. It is either me or some guy that will charge them for each shot.

I love my photography and I love my PS and I want THE best photos I can produce for them. I will definitely put my heart in each shot, though (as I said) it will only be standard white-background product photography.

And finally product photography equippement. It has not yet been decided who will pay for that, it will be either me (sort of loan) or they. Whoever that will be the budget is low. I want to buy the best equippement I can for the money I have to spend (I'd say 400£ is the max for everything at the moment... maybe tiny bit more). If you think I can buy better equippment for my money than the one I have linked to at the beginning of the thread, please do post! I will be very grateful!

Garry, you have mentioned 2 head studio flash kit. I will definitely read a bit on that.

Ozei, that looks interesting. I wonder why there is such a massive price difference 75£ vs 240£. It must be something to do with quality of that equipement?

To all, I am opened on all suggestions, so please do post.

Would also like to thank everybody who contributed already, very much appreciated :thumbs:

Adrian :)

PS please excuse my long post.
 
What you're doing is pretty much what I do when I'm in the studio shooting for the magazines I work on. We generally shoot on white backgrounds because it's easier to path in PS and although it's a very flat way of lighting subjects it does a job. Studio flashes are great but even our small Bowens heads are overkill for things like fishing reels, fly-tying sequences, bait and other items that I can just as easily light with two speedlights and a reflector. The power only comes into it when we work with larger items like luggagge where we need to flood the place with light....

=ReBeL= said:
..... I looked into buying set of off camera flashes + stands, but as each of (even the simpler) 430's is about 200£ and I'd need about 3, I don't think I can afford that. The kits seems expenssive but still cheaper than dedicated flash set.
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You don't need OEM flashes when you're doing all-manual flash work. Get three Yongnuo flashes and you'll get them for about £100 for the three. They'll give you more than enough output, especially for small objects inside a light tent, plus they're very, very portable. Get some cheap 7dayshop stands for about a tenner each (or whatever they are) and then a set of RF-602 triggers (£40) and you have an effective but cheap three-light set-up that'll do most stuff.


awp said:
.. .. .. and you think that will sell product?
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Probably just a case of showing a basic 'on-white' view of the product a'la Argos etc.... :)
 
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I am in a similar boat, although not yet at the point where we're opening a web shop. My partner wants to sell handmade home decorations - table runners and the like. Because they are hand made, they are relatively expensive, so will need to be photographed appropriately to make people want to buy them. When I asked about this (thanks Garry and Richard for helping) the key thing was lighting them so that the texture and colour of the material was inviting. The impression I got was that just surrounding them with light wouldn't do that and you had to be creative with your lighting - white background or not.

My concern (without any hard and fast knowledge - please correct me if I'm wrong those that know) is that lighting them in a light tent will certainly light the product but you won't get a "wow" image, but a lit from all sides type shot. Again, the impression I have from my other thread is that to sell the things you are selling at any premium requires a "wow" image of the product.

Yes, you may well get better images than you currently have but it still may not work as you don't have good/enticing enough images to persuade people to buy the product at any form of premium without touching the object as you would in a shop. I think this is what a couple of people have been referring to above...
 
specialman said:
You don't need OEM flashes when you're doing all-manual flash work. Get three Yongnuo flashes and you'll get them for about £100 for the three. They'll give you more than enough output, especially for small objects inside a light tent, plus they're very, very portable. Get some cheap 7dayshop stands for about a tenner each (or whatever they are) and then a set of RF-602 triggers (£40) and you have an effective but cheap three-light set-up that'll do most stuff.




Probably just a case of showing a basic 'on-white' view of the product a'la Argos etc.... :)
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Thank you very much for your recommandations, Pat. I will have a look around to see what can I find and for what prices.

Much appreciated.

arad85 said:
I am in a similar boat, although not yet at the point where we're opening a web shop. My partner wants to sell handmade home decorations - table runners and the like. Because they are hand made, they are relatively expensive, so will need to be photographed appropriately to make people want to buy them. When I asked about this (thanks Garry and Richard for helping) the key thing was lighting them so that the texture and colour of the material was inviting. The impression I got was that just surrounding them with light wouldn't do that and you had to be creative with your lighting - white background or not.

My concern (without any hard and fast knowledge - please correct me if I'm wrong those that know) is that lighting them in a light tent will certainly light the product but you won't get a "wow" image, but a lit from all sides type shot. Again, the impression I have from my other thread is that to sell the things you are selling at any premium requires a "wow" image of the product.

Yes, you may well get better images than you currently have but it still may not work as you don't have good/enticing enough images to persuade people to buy the product at any form of premium without touching the object as you would in a shop. I think this is what a couple of people have been referring to above...
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The products I will be photographing are ranging from not expensive at all (20-30£) to quite expensive sometimes (300-400£).

Yes, I certainly want to create a 'wow' feeling to all of the photos as much as possible. Though we agreed that all of the photos (or at least most of them) should have a white (RGB 255.255.255) background. So I want to be as creative as white background will let me. I definitely was thinking about experimenting with light, but also don't want to over-do it. The main subject of the photo is the product and not my photography skills, if you know what I mean ;)

Thank you Andy
 
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=ReBeL= said:
The products I will be photographing are ranging from not expensive at all (20-30£) to quite expensive sometimes (300-400£).
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For the products you are selling, that would rate on my scale (i.e. without being able to pick them up and see what they are like) as expensive (£20-£30) to very expensive (£300-£400)

Yes, I buy a lot of things on the net for more than that (sometimes a lot more), but they are mass market products and typically will have been reviewed/discussed by many people so I know what they are like before hand...

All IMVHO of course - and I am most certainly not telling you how to run a business I know nothing about, but it's what goes through my mind when reading this thread....
 
arad85 said:
For the products you are selling, that would rate on my scale (i.e. without being able to pick them up and see what they are like) as expensive (£20-£30) to very expensive (£300-£400)

Yes, I buy a lot of things on the net for more than that (sometimes a lot more), but they are mass market products and typically will have been reviewed/discussed by many people so I know what they are like before hand...

All IMVHO of course - and I am most certainly not telling you how to run a business I know nothing about, but it's what goes through my mind when reading this thread....
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I guess you are right. 20£ for a product you can find plenty of reviews around is maybe a different matter then 20£ spent on product that you don't know much about. On the other hand though, 20£ for a handmade, high quality product is not that much. However you look at that, people will want to know as much about the propuct as possible before they buy it.


Well, to sum it up so far:
1. in my case photos will be VERY important (I knew that already)
2. quality of light will be very important
3. light tent is maybe not such a good idea
4. continous light is probably not a good idea too
5. studio flash + wireless control is probably a way to go

and

6. (the most important) I have PLENTY to learn

:)
 
=ReBeL= said:
20£ for a product you can find plenty of reviews around is maybe a different matter then 20£ spent on product that you don't know much about. On the other hand though, 20£ for a handmade, high quality product is not that much. However you look at that, people will want to know as much about the propuct as possible before they buy it.
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And you've just summed up why the quality of photography is paramount to a handmade cottage industry ;)

Take a look on somewhere like etsy (http://www.etsy.com) and browse the items in your categories. The quality of photography varies widely, but what sort of lighting is "doing it for you" (if you don't know how to work out what lighting was used, take a trip to strobist 101 - just google it)?

In fact, working out which photos are doing it for you shows you what photos and hence equipment you need. When I priced up what I wanted/needed for my photo needs, I was coming in at £750ish - the modifiers really cost quite a bit too. We're still debating what to do as some of the shots we want to take require a lot of space (to get the lights away from the object).
 
I think some 'clients' are confusing camera owners and photographers!
 
=ReBeL= said:
I guess you are right. 20£ for a product you can find plenty of reviews around is maybe a different matter then 20£ spent on product that you don't know much about. On the other hand though, 20£ for a handmade, high quality product is not that much. However you look at that, people will want to know as much about the propuct as possible before they buy it.


Well, to sum it up so far:
1. in my case photos will be VERY important (I knew that already)
2. quality of light will be very important
3. light tent is maybe not such a good idea
4. continous light is probably not a good idea too
5. studio flash + wireless control is probably a way to go

and

6. (the most important) I have PLENTY to learn

:)
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Seems like a pretty good summary to me. Especially #6 ;)

Since you have the budget, get started with a couple of Lencarta Smartflashes (or any other entry-level outfit - eg Bowens, Elinchrom - though they'll push your budget) and a softbox, preferably on a boom.

They will do the light tent thing (you can make one in five minutes with a couple of bits of grease-proof paper) and once you get the hang of things, most of the creative stuff too. You can build from there and they'll be wonderfully useful for any other studio work you might want to do.
 
Thanks Andy!

Just had a long discussion about the quality of the photography needed for this business to succeed with people involved in this company.

I must say it is quite hard to convince people that you can't really take a photo of a product with an iPhone placed on a sofa and expect it to look great. I had that discussion with them before and I'm sure will have again in future.

We have came to the conclussion that because we still have some time left before this equippement will be needed, we (maybe I should say 'I') won't be rushing things. I want the best I can afford, so more reading/learning is required. I do not want to spend my money quickly and then regret. I think I have couple of more weeks then. Right now they will be working on the website.

Off to find a good book about product photography :geek:
 
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