Problems with a photographer - need advice

Toggerman

Toggerman

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Scott
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I appreciate this probably isn't the place to complain about another photographer but I could do with some advice from anyone with knowledge of a similar incident. If this type of post isn't allowed could a mod/admin please remove it.

I'm with a small local motor club as a photographer, committee member and a trainee Clerk of the Course for speed events (sprints and hillclimbs). We've just had our first big event of the season, a sprint at a local race track. A couple of years ago we had a photographer attend who proceeded to do stupid things like lie on top of tyre walls and step out from gaps in the Armco. He was subsequently banned from the club events but due to a mistake on our part returned to the sprint last year.

We were contacted by this chap a couple of weeks ago asking for access to this event again, we politely declined saying we were full. After the sprint he put photos up on Facebook, fine I thought, no problem with him as a spectator. However some of the photos were taken from an unmanned marshals post infield. He had shown up with his own florescent yellow jacket (we all wore the circuit's white ones) and managed to cross the track, something which we told those signed on not to do as we were very short for marshals and had them in observer positions on the spectator banking so there was no one on post to give them assistance.

Several of the committee members have been told and are fuming but want to just ignore it and hope he doesn't come back. I personally want to take it to higher authorities like the circuit and MSA as I feel he posed a danger to himself and to others and is likely to do it again if he thinks he has gotten away with it. I have evidence in the signing on sheets, his photos taken from a restricted area with his metadata intact (he allows people to download for free from Facebook) and also a screen capture from a competitors GoPro that shows him crouching in front of the Armco in an unofficial jacket.

Should I leave it up to the club to deal with as we do need to sort out our marshal situation, or should I take it up with the circuit myself (I know them fairly well as I also shoot the race meetings there)?

The really stupid thing is you would have thought this guy would know better as he's a BSB media pass holder (no-one on here).
 
The bottom line is this fella wasn't signed in and was a danger to both himself, the competitors and a liability to your club itself.

Time to escalate!
 
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Agreed!

If he's got a BSB meadia pass surely he has to work to a code of pratice and while this event was only a club event I would have thought thye would take a very dim view of his actions.

As a keen amatuer photographer with a big passion for Motorsport I would love to be able to get closer to the action but would never dream of going anywhere I shouldn't so to hear about a 'pro' doing it annoys me.
 
Ban him from the circuit?
 
If its your job/postion to deal with photographer or people causing a danger to themselves or others then this so called photographer needs banning from your events and it needs to be made public as he has had enough chances..

If its not your job/positiion.... then mind your own business :)
 
get the club to contact him and read him the riot act and ban him then post on there web site etc that any one flaunting the rules will be banned from future events for good, i go to a lot of small events and dont have a media pass but would never dream of trying the stuff like you say , there is lots of togs out there that would love a media pass but find it hard to get one
 
Sounds like he doesn't deserve his BSB pass - those things are not easy to get.

I've seen spectator side photographers get in places they really shouldn't on several occasions, and when I've seen this I've either had a word with them or told a nearby marshall. Once or twice I was shown a circuit wristband because the media office had run out of tabards, when I apologised, and the other photographer recognised that the lack of bib was going to be a problem.

In your case, with hats of different responsibility I would escalate this, but I'm not sure to what level. MSV promote BSB and handle all the media applications and I'm sure they would take a dim view of this.
 
The club is the hirer of the circuit so any contact with the circuit should come with the backing of the club committee. Any contact with the MSA should additionally come with the backing of the clerk of the course (and the event committee, but the clerk would have the final say as he is the person with overall responsibility for the event). For the MSA to apply a sanction there must be a judicial process, if there isn't it potentiallly puts them in the position of acting ultra vires.

Toggerman said:
Several of the committee members have been told and are fuming but want to just ignore it and hope he doesn't come back.
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Not all of the committe have been told, not even all of those present at the event. Raise it at club committee on 13th April, you may find more diverse opinions. Past events, not AOB, to ensure there is time for it to be discussed.

gramps said:
Ban him from the circuit?
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It is outwith the power of the club to ban anyone from the circuit on any but the three days that the club hires it each year.
 
hoochy1 said:
there is lots of togs out there that would love a media pass but find it hard to get one
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Generally the club is happy to give anyone a chance and it is mostly a case of just asking. The only real requirements are to allow the club to use some photos for the magazine/website/promotional use and the obvious obeying the rules of the track. Most other small motor clubs have been similar in my experience.
 
onomatopoeia said:
It is outwith the power of the club to ban anyone from the circuit on any but the three days that the club hires it each year.
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Lack of knowledge of how it works but meant ban him from their events :)
 
You have to ask - really?

Ban him from all future events, i would expect nothing less if I was stupid / arrogant enough to try it on. For me - I have worked damned hard to get my accreditation and I will not do anything to jeopardise that. You did mention that he was an official BSB photographer. . . . . that explains a lot, of the few that I have come into contact with - it's part of their criteria to be arrogant and better than anyone else (I know we have a couple on here that are above that and are genuinely nice people)

Name and shame I say, otherwise he will just keep taking the p**s

.DAVID.
 
David Stallard said:
You have to ask - really?
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The problem is this has annoyed me at different levels and for different reasons. As a photographer I feel a bit threatened that it could ruin it for all of us who obey the rules as the club could decide no more media (though unlikely). As a committee member/someone who has had experience of helping to run an event it's more frustrating as it can stop the whole event and adds to an already stressful day for all the officials and marshals involved. And on a personal level, someone being stupid on the track can potentially cause a serious incident which could involve one of my friends or family that were competing in that event, and that is the thought that angers me the most.

I don't think there's a question about him being banned and hopefully it'll be made public so that others don't get the same idea.
 
I guess there could be the position of your own personal liability should anything untoward happen and you had done nothing to report or stop him knowing the situation.
 
I am outside of the sport, but it sounds like it should be taken forward by you to alert the committee of your club, who can then make the decision to report to the higher body/circuit and impose any club restrictions on the individual concerned. But to do nothing would also be wrong.

You have a responsibility to your club, circuit and competitors .
 
Just caught up with this thread, but he sounds a right little star! And I say that as one who has had scant respect for marshals and organisers in years gone by, but quite a lot of respect for my own safety!

I trust, for the protection of the future of your event, you've reported him to the circuit!?
 
Could the club / committee / track owners / event organisers not be held responsible if he was to get injured as a result of being somewhere he isn't meant to be? I'm not clued up on the ins and outs of track work but surely if he's potentially causing a liability issue on someone elses part with his own stupidity he needs to be stopped?
 
Yves Geza said:
I trust, for the protection of the future of your event, you've reported him to the circuit!?
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Not yet, I'll raise it at the committee meeting next week and see where it goes from there.

nickjohnwatson said:
Could the club / committee / track owners / event organisers not be held responsible if he was to get injured as a result of being somewhere he isn't meant to be?
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I'm not 100% sure on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the club was liable should he cause an incident.

Gary said:
isnt he trespassing?
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I genuinely don't know.
 
Toggerman said:
Not yet, I'll raise it at the committee meeting next week and see where it goes from there.



I'm not 100% sure on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the club was liable should he cause an incident.



I genuinely don't know.
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If he has legal access to the circuit generally then trespass is not the issue.

He is just in a part where he shouldn't be.

Just like if you invite someone into your house, they then go in a room that is closed off, doesn't make them a trespasser in that room, they have just broken your house rules. They are on your land in both cases and it is the permissions that vary.

But as you can see I am not a lawyer otherwise I would not be posting about it without invoicing you!
 
I had a chat with a friend at the circuit yesterday, strictly off record. This chap's name was brought up and it turns out that they've had a couple of problems with him already and he's no longer welcome at their events.
 
Toggerman said:
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the club was liable should he cause an incident.
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I work at sailing events which are slightly different as there is no venue hire agreement in place. But at sailing, the Officers of the club would be in court if someone died. As it sounds like your club was providing marshalls, then it could be argued that they failed in their duty to prevent him getting to where he was.
 
As an official of the club you should nevertheless have it reported and recorded in the committee meetings otherwise if anything happens in the future your name might be associated as not having done enough and your colleague might deny the 'off the record' conversation if it was to save his bacon.
 
It will be reported at the committee meeting on Monday, but to be honest I feel as though the pressure's been taken off as the circuit are already dealing with him. It will probably be worth us going on the record and saying that we've had problems with him too, just to further support any action they might already take.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Raise it at club committee on 13th April, you may find more diverse opinions.
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And indeed there were different opinions from those previously stated and a sensible (IMO) set of actions was agreed. Obviously it would be sensible in my opinion, as I proposed most of them! Including the one requiring Scott to wear pink at future events. :exit:
 
onomatopoeia said:
And indeed there were different opinions from those previously stated and a sensible (IMO) set of actions was agreed. Obviously it would be sensible in my opinion, as I proposed most of them! Including the one requiring Scott to wear pink at future events. :exit:
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Good idea but I'm not surprised. You're probably that brutal sort of CofC who forces the 'corner workers' to dress up as Guantanamo prisoners :p
 
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