Problem? Wedding situation

AshleyKent

AshleyKent

Suspended / Banned
Messages
400
Name
Ashley
Edit My Images
Yes
Right did a wedding this year. they got 400 edited images on a disk...
7am in the morn til 11 at night with two photographers. editing took over 2 weeks in my spare time in the evenings.

they are asking to have all of the unedited images?

anyone had this before and what did they do?
 
Quiet simple - "There are no further images, everything that failed my rigourous quality process was deleted"
 
Just say they are deleted you only keep the best or do you mean they want the 400 edited images plus the same 400 un touched ?
 
boyfalldown said:
Quiet simple - "There are no further images, everything that failed my rigourous quality process was deleted"
Click to expand...

if only it was that simple - is there another way to say that you still have some of the uneditied images but dont send them out due to quality of images a product dropping
 
AshleyKent said:
if only it was that simple - is there another way to say that you still have some of the uneditied images but dont send them out due to quality of images a product dropping
Click to expand...

AshleyKent said:
they want all of the images >2000
Click to expand...

why is it not that simple?, just delete the ones you rejected and then you can say that. You rejected them for a reason. Nothing but trouble comes from showing rejects
 
Last edited:
Do you have a contract in place? If so does it stipulate what the client will receive? My contract clearly states that they get edited hi-res JPEGs and not original files. Recently had a bride ask for unedited shots but I politely refused and she was fine about it.
 
When you watch a movie or tv programme you wouldn't get to see the 20 hours of footage that didn't get used, you get to see the finished post production result. Treat your work the same. Politely decline. She paid for your services not every image you took.

Johns advice is spot on, always have a proper contract signed that leaves no ambiguity or grey areas.
 
Alternately...... say she can have them at £1.00 each. :D

Realistically you should never give out un-edited images, the client will not understand the quality process and she will display them, showing your un-edited work.... never good for business ;)

Phil.
 
This is the trap...

The B&G see the two of you shooting all day, and you then only supply 400 images. You say yourself you shot over 2000 between you. By design, you are walking yourself into this trap. The bride and groom and guests probably feel rightly so that you shot three or four times more then you delivered.

If you don't deal with this before the wedding, you are going to get this a lot.

By principle, I never let anyone (consumers) see or have the un-edited images. Firstly because they wont have the software to open the raw files, secondly, they wont have the skills to process them. Thirdly, because sometimes I shoot a shot, that is deliberatally pushed about technically, because I know what I am intending to do with it in PP, or... I am shooting a abstract detail that will form part of an album design. Both of the latter shots will look wrong or have no meaning to anyone other than me

Beyond that, if they start processing yoru files, your work is going to be put out there, and look crap
 
Richard King said:
By principle, I never let anyone (consumers) see or have the un-edited images. Firstly because they wont have the software to open the raw files, secondly, they wont have the skills to process them. Thirdly, because sometimes I shoot a shot, that is deliberatally pushed about technically, because I know what I am intending to do with it in PP, or... I am shooting a abstract detail that will form part of an album design. Both of the latter shots will look wrong or have no meaning to anyone other than me
Click to expand...
:agree:

Deleting all the rejects right at the start can solve the issue of not giving them those shots, but point 3 is also relevant.
 
Or are you thinking that they won't pay unless you give them the lot? I do agree with previous posts though, it would be a mistake to give unedited shots!
 
Offer then all the shots (except the obvious rejects) all on a disk for £900, explain it's because of the cost of editing everything to your standard, you couldn't risk an unedited shot going out and looking like your standards are lower than they are.
 
Duncan.F said:
Or are you thinking that they won't pay unless you give them the lot? I do agree with previous posts though, it would be a mistake to give unedited shots!
Click to expand...

ShoeQueen said:
:agree:

Deleting all the rejects right at the start can solve the issue of not giving them those shots, but point 3 is also relevant.
Click to expand...

swanseamale47 said:
Offer then all the shots (except the obvious rejects) all on a disk for £900, explain it's because of the cost of editing everything to your standard, you couldn't risk an unedited shot going out and looking like your standards are lower than they are.
Click to expand...

ive already been paid for the job.

i will have to delete the obvious rejects as i go along but that takes time and battery power.

I'm just going to tell them straight: "I have deleted all of the rejected images from myself and the other photographer due to the standards of my photography. I'm not going to be sending images that do not portray my photography to the highest level. The images go through a stong selection process to create the finest album that yourself, family and friends can share."
 
I agree with others that you shouldn't send them rejects, however can see why some people ask for them.

Its like my other half... If we go out for the day and i take the camera i will take LOTS of photos with the intention that only a few select shots will make it onto the hard drive as keepers. If it was up to her though we would keep them all, as they are family photos!
 
Dan_H said:
I agree with others that you shouldn't send them rejects, however can see why some people ask for them.

Its like my other half... If we go out for the day and i take the camera i will take LOTS of photos with the intention that only a few select shots will make it onto the hard drive as keepers. If it was up to her though we would keep them all, as they are family photos!
Click to expand...

Mmmm... I think that people would expect a professional photographer to have a different approach to that. I.e trying to make every shot count
 
Richard King said:
Mmmm... I think that people would expect a professional photographer to have a different approach to that. I.e trying to make every shot count
Click to expand...

You will but you will often never know if someone is about to blink at the wrong time, so will always take a few of the same shot.
 
Richard King said:
.....Firstly because they wont have the software to open the raw files, secondly, they wont have the skills to process them.....
Click to expand...

How do you know they won't have the software to open the raw files. There are 1 or 2 people out there who have a copy (legit or pirate) of LR or PS that will open the RAWs.

Again, how do you know they don't have the skills to process them. They may well be experts in PS, far above your own skills, you have no way of knowing without asking them.

All in all a bit of a sweeping statement.

I still agree though that you shouldn't give them the files.
 
cambsno said:
You will but you will often never know if someone is about to blink at the wrong time, so will always take a few of the same shot.
Click to expand...

Most pro's shoot group shots a few times to deal with that issue. However there is a big difference between that and having the intention of shooting loads all day long and delivering few.
 
Ploddles said:
How do you know they won't have the software to open the raw files. There are 1 or 2 people out there who have a copy (legit or pirate) of LR or PS that will open the RAWs.

Again, how do you know they don't have the skills to process them. They may well be experts in PS, far above your own skills, you have no way of knowing without asking them.

All in all a bit of a sweeping statement.

I still agree though that you shouldn't give them the files.
Click to expand...
Having a cooker, doesn't make you a chef, and even a chef goes and eats out
 
AshleyKent said:
if only it was that simple - is there another way to say that you still have some of the uneditied images but dont send them out due to quality of images a product dropping
Click to expand...

but it is that simple, what you supplied was the final product, end of.
 
boyfalldown said:
Quiet simple - "There are no further images, everything that failed my rigourous quality process was deleted"
Click to expand...

Pretty much sums up what to do!
 
Gazamonk said:
When you watch a movie or tv programme you wouldn't get to see the 20 hours of footage that didn't get used, you get to see the finished post production result. Treat your work the same. Politely decline. She paid for your services not every image you took.

Johns advice is spot on, always have a proper contract signed that leaves no ambiguity or grey areas.
Click to expand...

^^^This^^^. Especially the contract bit.

Dan_H said:
I agree with others that you shouldn't send them rejects, however can see why some people ask for them.

Its like my other half... If we go out for the day and i take the camera i will take LOTS of photos with the intention that only a few select shots will make it onto the hard drive as keepers. If it was up to her though we would keep them all, as they are family photos!
Click to expand...

Richard King said:
Mmmm... I think that people would expect a professional photographer to have a different approach to that. I.e trying to make every shot count
Click to expand...

As a pro, I always take a number of shots of any given shoot, if it's possible. The point is that if you have a number of shots, chances are that one will be better than the rest, and as above, you cover yourself for the inevitable errors - people blinking, perhaps - that can creep in no matter how experienced you are. The point made above about film/TV shooting is spot on. I used to do a lot of this, and in approximately 100% of cases every scene was shot more than once. A ten hour shooting day would typically result in around two minutes of finished copy. This wasn't because people were bad at their job, it was because they wanted the end result to be as good as they could get it.

You back up your shots one a seperate hard drive (don't you? ;)). So for the same reason you should take back up shots at the other end of the process.
 
great big fat NO to giving unedited images, for a start.
Secondly NEVER tell the couple how many shots youve actualy taken.
If youve provided them with your best quality shots, If they dont acheive your level , DONT supply them.
I must admit, i found 400 images, from two togs, and a very long day, suprisingly few, but thats down to you.But then again, i dont know what your original arrangement was with them.
If they havent paid a LOT of money, specialy for those hours , i wouldnt want to supply 1000's of images.
Either way, stick to your guns.
 
jon ryan said:
^^^This^^^. Especially the contract bit.





As a pro, I always take a number of shots of any given shoot, if it's possible. The point is that if you have a number of shots, chances are that one will be better than the rest, and as above, you cover yourself for the inevitable errors - people blinking, perhaps - that can creep in no matter how experienced you are. The point made above about film/TV shooting is spot on. I used to do a lot of this, and in approximately 100% of cases every scene was shot more than once. A ten hour shooting day would typically result in around two minutes of finished copy. This wasn't because people were bad at their job, it was because they wanted the end result to be as good as they could get it.

You back up your shots one a seperate hard drive (don't you? ;)). So for the same reason you should take back up shots at the other end of the process.
Click to expand...
You are preaching to the converted here. I shoot to 2 cards and have on and off site backup

But I disagree about the philosophy of shooting loads and delivering few at a wedding, because it walks you into problems i.e. Aunt Maud, or the Brides Mother WILL remember you took a photograph of her and expect to see it. Secondly, it wastes a lot of time at the wedding, and a lot of time after the wedding. Thirdly, some of that time inst my own to waste, it is the bride and grooms or the guests.

I have always said I shoot group shots four or five times because of the blinking issue. At something as important as a wedding I don't subscribe to the shoot and hope philosophy. As a wedding photographer you are being employed to get the shot right first time every time. For some shots, you will only get one chance to get them right - first kiss, ring exchange, walking down the aisle, bouquet toss, cake cutting, fireworks, a lot of moments in the speaches etc.. This is especially true if you are a photographer that doesn't do false set up shots.

I do know things have changed since the film days, but in those days, the photographer shot 11, and come back in the evening and shot the last one on the roll, and then delivered an album of 12... things have evolved a lot, but I personally don't get the whole idea of shooting at a ratio of nearly 1:10 or 1:5 keepers.
 
Richard King said:
You are preaching to the converted here. I shoot to 2 cards and have on and off site backup

But I disagree about the philosophy of shooting loads and delivering few at a wedding, because it walks you into problems i.e. Aunt Maud, or the Brides Mother WILL remember you took a photograph of her and expect to see it. Secondly, it wastes a lot of time at the wedding, and a lot of time after the wedding. Thirdly, some of that time inst my own to waste, it is the bride and grooms or the guests.

I have always said I shoot group shots four or five times because of the blinking issue. At something as important as a wedding I don't subscribe to the shoot and hope philosophy. As a wedding photographer you are being employed to get the shot right first time every time. For some shots, you will only get one chance to get them right - first kiss, ring exchange, walking down the aisle, bouquet toss, cake cutting, fireworks, a lot of moments in the speaches etc.. This is especially true if you are a photographer that doesn't do false set up shots.

I do know things have changed since the film days, but in those days, the photographer shot 11, and come back in the evening and shot the last one on the roll, and then delivered an album of 12... things have evolved a lot, but I personally don't get the whole idea of shooting at a ratio of nearly 1:10 or 1:5 keepers.
Click to expand...

Sure, but the first kiss can last...ages :naughty:. When I used to do weddings, I'd try for a number of shots of everything. Not always possibly, but if it is possible, always take more than one shot. Always. No exceptions. Even when I was shooting film. It isn't 'shoot and hope', it's covering eventualities. If you can get it right first time, every time, you're a better man than me!
 
Last edited:
I find cutting down the number to be the most difficult thing in PP. We deliver around 6-700 images from around 2000 taken. The rest are deleted using Photo Mechanic in a cull process before I do any image editing. I'm currently editing an absolutely spectacular wedding we did a couple of weeks ago and am struggling to get it below 1000.

I take multiple images for each scene but many will appear remarkably similar. The reason I take multiple images is that when you're photographing people a mere second can make the difference between a crap facial expression and a perfect one. Its not a case of shooting and shooting and hope one is good. I know the composition and settings will be right in all, its just a matter of making people look as well as poss.

If someone asked for the other images I can reply politely and honestly that they no longer exist. I rarely delete in camera. Wastes time that you could spend photographing and you also run the risk of accidentally deleting a great image.
 
Last edited:
No good can come from unedited photos being given out. Im sorry the other photos don't meet the standards I strive for and have been deleted.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top