Pro Photographers enter.

Would you as a Professional Photographer give it all up for another career that paid the bills ??

  • Never, I love taking photo's for a living.

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Could be persuaded if the right opportunity presented itself.

    Votes: 3 25.0%

  • Yep i'm about had enough of taking pictures, Time for a change, Already looking !

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Would love to change but to lazy to look for an alternative.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • None of the above.

    Votes: 4 33.3%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
NikonKev

NikonKev

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Probably been asked before but humour me please :rolleyes:
As an Amatuer who would love to earn a living with the use of my Camera i wondered what the general concensus was with those that already do.

It might look all shiney and bright from the outside but i would imagine it's not all Roses :banghead:

Oh and i posted it here in case i got stoned in the
Talk Business & Professional Photography
 
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Im going the other way. Im in a well paid full time job with the same company for 14 years but I've had enough of the stress that comes with that job and feel that I could benefit more (less stress, control my own future/path). Some people will think Im mad but at the end of the day - you have to do what makes you HAPPY otherwise if you don't, your life will be miserable. Of course, Im not going to throw my well paid job in, just on a whim, I have to match or beat my financial income from photographer to do this, I have bills, kid (another one the way in 7 weeks), a mortgage. You have to balance lifestyle with work - dont WORK to live, LIVE to work.
 
Would you as a Professional Photographer give it all up for another career that paid the bills ??

This doesnt make any sense to me.. If photogrpahy doesnt pay the bills then yes.. but iof photography is paying the bills then no..

Maybe its me but dont really understand the question ?
 
If you love photography and love taking photos, then there would be no reason except a financial one to change to another career.

Of course its not all roses and there is an element of uncertainty which would be found in most self employment, but its down to you and how much time and effort you put in - that will dictate how well it pays you back.

Oh and of course it helps to have a 'good eye' for photography, but thats another subject and one thats done to death.
 
KIPAX said:
Maybe its me but dont really understand the question ?
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For someone that doesn't understand the question you seemed to be able to give a perfectly good answer.

I assume what he means by the question is whether your love of photography would keep you going at it as a profession even if it wasn't bringing in enough income to cover the bills. I thought it was a fairly simple question. Some people love their work so much they'll carry on doing it even if they could be making far more money doing something else.
 
Just be aware that something youy love as a hobby without pressure can become a real drag and far less fun when you have to keep producing stuff for clients etc. This doesn't apply just to photography: anything can become a bore and a drag when the freedom to do just what you like, when you like is taken away.
 
ancient_mariner said:
Just be aware that something youy love as a hobby without pressure can become a real drag and far less fun when you have to keep producing stuff for clients etc. This doesn't apply just to photography: anything can become a bore and a drag when the freedom to do just what you like, when you like is taken away.
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As an aside... the trick is to do some photography for pleasure only.. no preassure.. keeps you sane and happy :)
 
Ive never worked as hard, as many hours a week for as little pay(when you work it back £ per hour) but Im really happy doing it and would not change it for the world. I think you must love,live and breath photography for it to work though.
Friends say to me it must be great having no boss, let me just say I now have 100's of bosses(every client I have) and some are much worse than others.
 
stumac said:
Ive never worked as hard, as many hours a week for as little pay(when you work it back £ per hour) but Im really happy doing it and would not change it for the world.
.
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Exactly! I tell everyone I could probably get a job filling shelves at ASDA for less hrs and as much money... But I wouldn't enjoy life as much as I do now..



PS Apologies to all shelf fillers out there :)
 
I work as a full time photographer, sure its enjoyable but mostly just really really REALLY REALLY hard work, I spend about 20% of my time taking photos/video, the rest is editing (a lot of it - you have to enjoy an 'office' job to do it all the time).......paper work, lots of paper work, organizing the time table, calendar, a lot of time is spent communicating with customers, arranging stuff.


It's hard to balance work / life, I don’t really have separate parts of my life, it's all sort of one thing, I basically work constantly then when I am not working I spend time with the Mrs, then when she isn't here or she is at work, I work, if she has a night with her friends, I work..........you get the drift..........being self-employed is perhaps one of the hardest things to do, way harder than a salary 9-5 job as you can never 'switch off', because you work when you have a free moment. It only works if you TRUELY love it, you have to ask yourself if you would get sick of it 24/7 (I don't hence why I do it)


Also there is no such thing as true social time, any event I go to I am either working it anyway or people ask if I can bring my camera (also another 'problem', a lot of people don't get there asking freebies, I don’t mind per say, but if I had a dentist friend would I ask for free dental work?, a person works in a shop, would you I get free items from the shop?)


Also, the market is totally and utterly completely saturated - every man and his dog and the dogs pet thinks they can be a photographer, as if it’s a new and good idea -- as if it will solve all their problems, and because they can take a few good photos (anyone can and will at *some* point)...........but it doesn’t, they don’t really know the insane amount of people doing it, you are also faced with various 'grades' of ‘photographers’:

1) The full time employed in some random job who like shooting at the weekend and do events for free because joe bloggs knows them and knows they do photos, so why ask a professional when they can get their mate to do it ?


2) The full time employed in some random job, who gets paid £20 one day for doing photos at some random event, they start thinking at work – man I enjoyed that £20 for that one job I did – then one day Joe bloggs asks them to do photos, and joe doesn’t mind paying £20 as he knows full well that you are ‘experienced’ so are worth the money


3) The full time employed in some random job that is a ‘serious’ photographer, they have a facebook page, website, promote themselves and so on………….all this is fine of course but they are still distracted away from photography at least 40 hours a week doing their main job – yet because they charge £250 for a wedding, people flock, wow so cheap!! Yet joe bloggs doesn’t understand that this person can never be truly immersed in their art because for the main bulk of the week, they do not shoot anything or work on photos at all – all they see is ohhh nice landscape photos, they MUST be able to do a wedding! Right?! -_-


Anyways you get the drift. Paradoxically I get that the above situations are how most people get into paid photography, it’s really the only logical way in – however when you become a full time photographer, people like that pain you – they undercut you and the customer doesn’t understand why they are paying more for a full time professional.


The problem is photography is subjective, to me an ‘alright photo’ to others is an amazing one, factor in money and average joe starts to see the ‘amazing’ photo (that is really just ok and has tons of problems only a pro would notice) as worth paying a little for, but not a lot, certainly not enough that someone could make a living off – the problem is education, a pro is worth it because of a million reasons – google it.


If anyone is thinking of getting into it as a pro you will need:


1) Endless drive – there are 50 photographers living on your street, you have to battle all of them – all other photographers are out to take work off you – me included.

2) Vast sums of cash to invest, really you need 2-3 years’ worth of wages stacked up to live off, at least 15 grands worth of camera stuff to compete with the top players, several more thousand for I.T. infrastructure – you have to process photo/video quickly and efficiently – your further need to store important photos like wedding photos – when you get to the point of regular work you will need hundreds of TB’s of space – expensive !!!!!!

3) It defo helps of course if your naturally talented, get it right in camera yet are also highly skilled at photoshop, lightroom etc - you will get weird requests for photos to be changed frequently, the latest fad is selective coloring – I hate it, looks crap, tacky etc imo but you have to honor the clients wishes, everyone wants b/w photos with the flowers in colour for some reason.

4) Huge piles of cash to pay for insurance premiums for public liability, gear etc

5) Prepare to take very little money for the 1st year or two, remember joe bloggs ? he will much rather pay his mate a couple hundred than someone who can take properly good photos ON DEMAND.


There is loads of other stuff but this is the basic, I guess to summarize all of the above, to be a pro you must take stunning photos every single time ON DEMAND ………. NOT that you have taken 10 amazing (even award winning) photos in the past 5 years……………oh and scrap it out with a billion other people and get paid very little for it (until you reach the top of the pile).


So yeah have a good think, it’s a brutal career choice with a lot of stress and hard work.
 
So combat squirrel doesn't like part timers lol.

Photography is much like any other career if your good, work hard and have some luck you'll get on alright.
 
a1ex2001 said:
So combat squirrel doesn't like part timers lol.

Photography is much like any other career if your good, work hard and have some luck you'll get on alright.
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That's probably reasonable - it must make life difficult if you have to compete against talented people who don't depend on photography for their main source of income and price accordingly.
 
The worst thing about it is listening to other photographers go on and on about how hard it all is, how they're flogging themselves to death 168 hours a week to turn out the incredible and individual work that you could only ever get from them. ;)

Self employed photography is fine, the pay is good, and the hours can be pretty cruisy if you want them to be. Yes, a "9-5" staff job (which could be in photography of course) can be more stable, and make things easier to plan into the future (as compared to any self-employed position, photography or otherwise) - but I can think of much harder ways to make a living than freelance photography. Generally speaking from my experience, photographers are fairly well off, with a rather enviable "work-life" balance.
 
Jayst84 said:
The worst thing about it is listening to other photographers go on and on about how hard it all is, how they're flogging themselves to death 168 hours a week to turn out the incredible and individual work that you could only ever get from them. ;)
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Not somehting I tend to do..
Jayst84 said:
Self employed photography is fine, the pay is good, and the hours can be pretty cruisy if you want them to be. Yes, a "9-5" staff job (which could be in photography of course) can be more stable, and make things easier to plan into the future (as compared to any self-employed position, photography or otherwise) - but I can think of much harder ways to make a living than freelance photography. Generally speaking from my experience, photographers are fairly well off, with a rather enviable "work-life" balance.
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wow... do I need a special passport to get into your world? :)
 
I almost never replied because I'm not full time, I'm currently one of those horrid weekend warriors;).

However I did spend a couple of years shooting full time kids portraits. I hated it! Due to my complete lack of understanding marketing in a wider sense, my customer base was just wrong. Which left me feeling frustrated, which I think showed in my work, which created a vicious circle. Eventually I was offered a crap job, for crap money which was better for me in every other way. The further downside was that I fell out of love with photography, sold all my MF gear, keeping just a 35mm and a set of lenses. I didn't shoot anything 'for fun' or to stretch me for about 5 years, it probably took 10 years to totally get over it.

The lesson learned? Doing what you love for a living is great, but if you get the business side wrong and end up doing something you no longer love, it's as bad as any other job, with all the added disadvantages of being self employed.

I'll probably end up with photography as my primary source of income at some point again, but this time I know what my personal goals are, and I understand how to make that work.
 
I don't hate part timers, at all, I used to be one, and as I mentioned in my post - its the only logical way into becoming a full time photographer.

The OP question was 'general concensus' on what its like to be a full time photographer - so I posted the raw (badum tssh) truth on it.

As I Mentioned its an incredibly difficult business that's over saturated with to many people, millions more if you count the part timers, as harsh as it sounds, I am afraid that is the truth, in my county from my research im in competition with 27 full time photographers and 48 more 'known part timers'........its a small county as well! lol

Photography is awesome, hence why I do it and billions others do also - however I won't lie about the competition and difficulty.........it's uncomfortable reading because its insanly competative.

As also mentioned by a poster above, there are also some really good and talented part timers......there really are, my photos won't be to everyones taste also. However I have been and shot many many more weddings than the part timers can relistically go to in a year - given all of their weekdays are used up, then other stuff in life will at some point spill over into the weekends (i get that done weekdays). Not just me though, ANY full time photographer offers, and at the minimum should offer (generally speaking), good to excellent photo skills, a lot of experience (20+ weddings a year)..........which matter of factually speaking means they are behind the camera in a wedding enviroment many more days than a part timer, and has basically practised a lot more than someone else who works doing something else.

So yeah there are some v talented part timers, but weddings count for experience, getting it right every time so to speak has a better chance of working if its someone who has done it many many times before (also in many more lighting conditions - you dont have the option of 'nice light' at all weddings, you simply have to make it work there and then)........and so on..........going on abit here but you get me :)

To me at least a wedding is the most important thing a photographer can do - the olympics of photography in a way where years of training says you should be able to get it right, and you only have that ONE CHANCE.............sure people will continue to hire part timers, but to me, on an important day would you hire a part timer to fly you across the atlantic ? a 'part time doctor' to deliver your baby ? (someone thats fairly alright at it, has some knowledge, but not done it much)..............you just wouldnt lol, you would be like...... 'get me the pro !!!!' lol

Of course the next consideration is photographic taste, some people love mine, some don't and they hire someone else, so in addition to the above its an industry constantly faced with these difficiulties:

1) Photography is subjective so its difficult for people to appreciate the value of it, in the same way some famous painters art sells for millions and an unknown painter of art with equal 'artistic value' will only be able to sell a painting for £100
2) As mentioned yes, part timers who are good but charge £100
3) The above 2 combined confuses non photographic customers

At the end of the day I feel to succeed you need to work hard as you can, get a good reputation and deliver work professionally and promptly and with results that match or better your portfolio photos, I very much view my work (not just taking photos, all the other stuff that comes with it) as a very serious job, I feel responsible for capturing memories that will last a life time, A LIFE TIME, I have had previous customers thank me months later because loved ones have passed away and the wedding or portrait photos were the last 'good' shots of them and they are used at funerals................when we die, often all that is left of the person in this day and age is photos and video - its how you are remembered.........I take great responsiblity in what I do.

Of course this maybe a little 'deep' but anyone in any 'professional' status should only become a professional because they passionatly believe in what they do somehow benefits people and betters the world they are in, doctors, engineers, I.T. etc to me memories are as important. So I will continue to try my v v v v best but know a lot more hard work is ahead of me, many decades of it, but I constantly try to improve what im doing.

Not just me, any passionate full timer.....I think putting that much into it with consistent results and delivery is worth enough money to at least live off - I see it as, as long as I can live, which gives me the ability to have my entire life to study and continue to learn photography to the day I die (which I love)...........is priceless, in terms of.......... I put 110% into every job I do because I see people who hire me as the facilitators to 'allow me' to follow my love of photography, sure at some point I have to put a monatary price on it, but I charge a lot less than most and only look to earn enough to live, but I get to live my love of photos with zero distractions, I hope somehow in some way this immersion in it, will yeild better results much more frequently.

Anyways, thank you to all my customers, but by no means is it easy and its incredibly hard work, I guess this post is more of the plus points to it.
 
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To me at least a wedding is the most important thing a photographer can do - the olympics of photography in a way where years of training says you should be able to get it right, and you only have that ONE CHANCE.............sure people will continue to hire part timers, but to me, on an important day would you hire a part timer to fly you across the atlantic ? a 'part time doctor' to deliver your baby ? (someone thats fairly alright at it, has some knowledge, but not done it much)..............you just wouldnt lol, you would be like...... 'get me the pro !!!!' lol
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There's very few types of photography where you can have 'another go'. Weddings are however the only one where the client will actually cry if you screw up, rather than sue you / never hire you again....
 
itsdavedotnet said:
There's very few types of photography where you can have 'another go'. Weddings are however the only one where the client will actually cry if you screw up, rather than sue you / never hire you again....
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This is true, take all jobs seriously of course, but yeah especially weddings! lol
 
combat squirrel said:
I don't hate part timers, at all, I used to be one, and as I mentioned in my post - its the only logical way into becoming a full time photographer.
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It used to be common for the more successful photography businesses in London to have several part-time 'operators' who would shoot weddings for them. Worth thinking about if you want to grow your business a bit.
 
Jayst84 said:
Comparing wedding photographers to medical doctors and airline captains... I appreciate the passion for the job, but really, come on.
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Most doctors aren't passionate about the job. They merely chose a career based on earning potential and how early they can retire. Pilots are a different kettle of fish though, I know a few and they are literally in love with their work. Flying is everything to them. As for photographers, well, I don't think you can make any judgements. If you're a wedding photographers, then no, you'll probably not be overly passionate about it, but I reckon Tim Walker is pretty passionate about what he does, as is Nadav Kander, Andy Rouse, Alec Soth, or anyone else who's actually good in their field. It's relative. Take auto engineering: If you're a minimum wage grease monkey fixing 10 year old cars in a back street garage, then no, you'll not be passionate about it no matter how much you like cars. If you're Tim Goss, McLaren's chief engineer though, I bet you literally jump out of bed and can't wait to get to work.

If you're not passionate about something... why go into business doing it? Just get a 9-5 job instead.
 
There life isn't in your hands no... but to say a pilot is more talented than a photographer is a bit unfair. The talents required for a job don't proportionately increase with the jobs importance.
 
I see what your saying of course, however you never had a crying newly wed on the phone begging you to fix 'joe bloggs' photos! lol

At the end of the day even the cheapest of weddings cost thousands, oddly (to me) some then spend £100 or nothing on a photographer and expect perfection...........obviously often that doesnt happen :( , the reason why I find it so immensly important to get it right is the same as the doctor and pilot.........you have ONE CHANCE to get it right....................ONE CHANCE...............I often have to break the news to people that some photos I have seen are just not rescuable (most of the time blurred from to low a shutter speed and obviously badly lit).........there is nothing I can do about that, the day has been and GONE, it will never happen ever again...EVER..................this is why its so vitally important to not mess it up and cheap out and expect happy memories.

Also all wedding planners I Have EVER met recommend never cutting corners on 2 things:

1) Wedding rings
2) Photographer

Why ? Because that is all that is left after the happy day.
 
I posted some shots I took at a mates wedding a few years ago. I took my camera as I thought it would give me a chance to try something other than landscapes.
The B&G were glad I did. The photographer they had booked was a school photographer and turned up with a D90 and kit lens. (I know its not the kit that makes a photographer, If it was I'd be awesome)

I had previously mentioned NOT skimping on a decent wedding photographer but they thought pictures were pictures.
They now regret their decision but at least I had managed to take a couple of half decent shots.



I was also asked to shoot at the inlaws wedding. I said I would but not to expect anything special. I hated doing it. The pressure I was under was immense and I was sweating like a pig. I don't think I would ever want to do this for a living or even just for pocket money
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Most doctors aren't passionate about the job. They merely chose a career based on earning potential and how early they can retire. Pilots are a different kettle of fish though, I know a few and they are literally in love with their work. Flying is everything to them. As for photographers, well, I don't think you can make any judgements. If you're a wedding photographers, then no, you'll probably not be overly passionate about it, but I reckon Tim Walker is pretty passionate about what he does, as is Nadav Kander, Andy Rouse, Alec Soth, or anyone else who's actually good in their field. It's relative. Take auto engineering: If you're a minimum wage grease monkey fixing 10 year old cars in a back street garage, then no, you'll not be passionate about it no matter how much you like cars. If you're Tim Goss, McLaren's chief engineer though, I bet you literally jump out of bed and can't wait to get to work.

If you're not passionate about something... why go into business doing it? Just get a 9-5 job instead.
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That Doctor bit is horse manure. With the training required to be a doctor you can earn more doing other things. Please don't make insulting comments without backing them up.
 
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Sir SR said:
That Doctor bit is horse manure. With the training required to be a doctor you can earn more doing other things. Please don't make insulting comments without backing them up.
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Sorry but my comments are based on my life time's experience of medical doctors, who are rarely sympathetic, have little empathy and seem to want you in and out as fast as possible. Sorry if that's offensive to doctors, or even inaccurate, but if that's my experience, then they'll have to try harder to convince me otherwise.... or do something about how they deal with patients to prevent us feeling like an encumbrance and something to be dealt with, rather than someone they are devoting their lives to helping... because it sure doesn't feel like that to me. If you were expecting an apology, I'm sorry.. none will be forthcoming. I don't need to back anything up in order to give an opinion, and my opinion is that MOST.... doctors clearly aren't going into medicine for altruistic reasons because so many of the ones I've been treated by act like they don't give a crap. If that's not the case, then many need to work on their people skills.
 
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I accept that is your opinion and I'm sorry that is the experience you have.

However the manner in which people work within the constraints of diminishing resources and budgets DOES NOT explain their career choice.

I wouldn't expect an apology as it's not your style, especially as you say you've been rushed in and out of a no doubt busy clinic or surgery.

Retire early....nope. Work 9-5. Nope. Do over and above paid hours....all the time because it's for the good of patients....yes.

Your stated your opinion as if it was fact. It's not.

Again I'm sorry you've had a bad experience but to say that medics choose their career based on retirement age and money is very far off the mark. Try to think of the wider reasons as to why you were rushed in and out.

I wasn't thinking of any of the above when resuscitating a neonate, treating patients on ICU, or anaesthetising patients for their operations. I, like my colleagues, do it for the love of the job and the best we can do for the patients.

Apologies to the op.
 
I have much to say, but this is not the thread for it.
 
Pookeyhead said:
If you're a wedding photographers, then no, you'll probably not be overly passionate about it ...
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:eek: What!!??

Nonsense!

Good grief, man, haven't you looked at a few wedding snappers' websites? Why, practically every one of them is at pains to point out how passionate they are about wedding photography!

Pah!

No idea, some people ...
 
No matter what you do, some people who share your profession will just be metaphorically punching a card until retirement with no great passion for it, and others will be utterly consumed by passion for their role. That's just how people are I suppose.
 
Serendipitous Sid said:
Good grief, man, haven't you looked at a few wedding snappers' websites? Why, practically every one of them is at pains to point out how passionate they are about wedding photography!
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;)

I'm not a pro but I know a man who was. He retrained as a plumber, sold all his MF ans studio gear and is now better off and happier than he was as a photographer. :)
 
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