PRIVATE PARKING TICKETS DONT PAY THEM and SIGN THE E-PETITION PLEASE

Steve Smith said:
Because only the police and the council have the legal right to issue fines. A private company can only seek remedies to mitigate their loss. That would have to be shown to be relative to a reasonable charge for parking.

Steve.
Click to expand...

A relative and reasonable charge could/should be the potential loss to the business due to lack of parking caused by illiterate/ignorant drivers :)
 
That is speculation. They would only be allowed to recover what they would have lost in parking charges.

I'm sure many people park in a shop's car park for under the allotted time and walk round the shop without buying anything. They don't get charged for wasting the shop's time.


Steve.
 
why do people think not paying should be punishable?

scenario - I pay every day, over the year £500 pounds, someone else tries it on, and gets fined half of the time and gets away with it half of the time - they only pay £250 despite breaking the rules whilst I cough up twice as much for being honest!

as photographers we regularly complain about copyright infringement and when sending an invoice have factored in unlicensed usage charge, why is parking different?
 
Steve Smith said:
That is speculation. They would only be allowed to recover what they would have lost in parking charges.

I'm sure many people park in a shop's car park for under the allotted time and walk round the shop without buying anything. They don't get charged for wasting the shop's time.

Steve.
Click to expand...

True, but that's pretty common for people to browse for a short period. What's not common is for people to leave their vehicles on private property for several hours and expect to do it for free. Oh, hang on, it is common, hence the need for parking control companies.
 
Davec223 said:
No I knew exactly what it was, unfortunately I didn't get a discount as it went through the car lease firm first, who put a £30 admin fee on top of it, tbh I was more pee'd at that than the fine. As the car park was managed by a ppc for the I did not have an issue.

Just to turn it round a bit, playing Devils advocate, how would you feel if some one parked on your drive, garden, parking space all day while they went to work, I am sure you would get feed up very quickly, as I see it, this is no different.
Click to expand...

Upon thier return they would have a great deal of difficulty removing said vehicle; and I would neither charge them a penny, nor cause an ounce of damage.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
why do people think not paying should be punishable?

scenario - I pay every day, over the year £500 pounds, someone else tries it on, and gets fined half of the time and gets away with it half of the time - they only pay £250 despite breaking the rules whilst I cough up twice as much for being honest!

as photographers we regularly complain about copyright infringement and when sending an invoice have factored in unlicensed usage charge, why is parking different?
Click to expand...

I don't think not paying should be punishable if that is the law. I just think the law should be changed to make it punishable and enforceable to park against the landowners wishes.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
why do people think not paying should be punishable?

scenario - I pay every day, over the year £500 pounds, someone else tries it on, and gets fined half of the time and gets away with it half of the time - they only pay £250 despite breaking the rules whilst I cough up twice as much for being honest!

as photographers we regularly complain about copyright infringement and when sending an invoice have factored in unlicensed usage charge, why is parking different?
Click to expand...

not paying a fine is punishable, but these aren't fines and thats the issue. They are invoices from a private company and nothing else. Pay or don't pay as you wish, but they are dressed up as having a legal standing when they just don't have it
 
My drive doesn't have a sign inviting people to park on it...
 
Rico said:
My drive doesn't have a sign inviting people to park on it...
Click to expand...

Neither does mine, but it's large, and it's happened.
 
boyfalldown said:
not paying a fine is punishable, but these aren't fines and thats the issue. They are invoices from a private company and nothing else. Pay or don't pay as you wish, but they are dressed up as having a legal standing when they just don't have it
Click to expand...

Invoices from photographers are the same thing, an invoice and nothing else. Should companies ripping people off be allowed to bury them in a draw and ignore them?
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Invoices from photographers are the same thing, an invoice and nothing else. Should companies ripping people off be allowed to bury them in a draw and ignore them?
Click to expand...

I'm confused as to who is ripping who off in your post, but as with any invoice you do have the option of using the civil courts to enforce. The fact ppcs issue speculative invoices which will fail in court should tell you something....... Do you get the difference between that and a fine?
 
boyfalldown said:
I'm confused as to who is ripping who off in your post, but as with any invoice you do have the option of using the civil courts to enforce. The fact ppcs issue speculative invoices which will fail in court should tell you something....... Do you get the difference between that and a fine?
Click to expand...

Sorry, other post should have said people ripping companies off by not paying them for the service they provide (parking).

I understand it is an invoice and not a fine, what I was trying to say in response to everyone saying that you can only be invoiced for loss of earnings I was trying to point out the hypocrisy what is often said on here with regards to copyright infringement and following the NUJs stance of charging extra (as part of the invoice, not a fine) for it.
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
Sorry, other post should have said people ripping companies off by not paying them for the service they provide (parking).

I understand it is an invoice and not a fine, what I was trying to say in response to everyone saying that you can only be invoiced for loss of earnings I was trying to point out the hypocrisy what is often said on here with regards to copyright infringement and following the NUJs stance of charging extra (as part of the invoice, not a fine) for it.
Click to expand...

But ultimatly the ripped off photographer only has the same remedy - the civil courts.

I'd agree with you more if there was a formal route to appeal these invoices, as there is with council or police issued tickets and it didn't seem, for the most part like private companies making a fast buck by trying very hard to make their invoices look as close to a council ticket as possible
 
No Bill, we retail managers are not thick! However, most are on running stores on retail parks over which they have no control. Our parking control company works with us, as I'm sure many do, and will cancel charges when asked. I'm sure if your friend had been reasonable this would have been remedied, if not a quick letter to the companies head office would have sorted the issue.
The reality is that a the majority of people who receive fines/charges for any sort of parking offence have failed to read, or choose to ignore, relevant signage or are not using the area to shop in the stores they are designed for. They then like to bleat about it to anyone who'll listen. I've been driving/parking for 20 years and have only received one parking fine for being a wally and parking on a yellow line!
Click to expand...


Sorry Phil - thick i is not the right word I should not have said that.

But I like the way you have made it personal:thumbsdown: Its NOT! its a general statement - on the back of 37 telephone calls I made to every store manager on the retail park where my mate received his ticket. 35 of those managers and assistant managers were clueless as to the relevant law and the way this particular PPC was acting. They also had no idea that the Appeals process was none existent, even though they had individual issues with them. They may well have thought they were isolated? quiet life syndrome maybe?

I know PPC's are not the only reason But they ADD to the hurdles consumers have to negotiate to get to retailers...and what retailer needs hurdles in front of customers these days or any disincentive for that matter.

So Are retail managers foolish? The ones who are blinkered and allow a PPC to dominate there car park and alienate their customers are - just my opinion time will tell in the end wont it.
 
So here we have a massive retail park just outside of town it has parking for 1500 cars and has 40 stores to choose from it has a free too park car park and is owned by a massive insurance investment company its then handed over to a facilities company who look after the day to day nitty gritty cleaning maintenance ect. Now the facilities co is always looking for an additional income stream so they put a TENDER out for a PPC to operate on the land - Surely they need to pay a company to look after the car park??? Nope! The PPC pay them to apply there tickets on the public for any infringement of the list of rules laid down in the bogus contract. The facilities co would have NEVER had a clamping company on the car park NO WAY (too high profile) but since clamping has become illegal many of the clampers have jumped on the band wagon of speculative invoicing for none compliance of a consumer contract that you as a consumer had nothing to do with, you were not party to its drawing up and you did not agree to its terms I mean who would negotiate a contract while driving a car?

The whole sad situation is to generate an income off the backs of minor infringements like a wheel on a white line or overstay of 1 min or some other bogus claptrap.

So 40 stores and a few places to eat - AND NOW A 2 HR LIMIT on the car park surely the retailers on the park want people to BROWSE and SPEND and have something to EAT and stay a while.....:bonk:

ALL this investment and now a PPC is shoving people away after 2 hrs and giving the car park a bad name in the locality for 90 quid tickets:bonk: and the retail establishment managers are clueless - thinking as far as there own snouts - COME ON PHIL see where I am coming from

I tell you what Phil I am going to write a letter to the land owners and see IF they really know whats going on on their land....then we will see the weak link is in all this wont we.
 
Last edited:
Bottom line is that the internet doesn't charge you for taking ages browsing a site. These PPC companies will end up driving away trade as they don't distinguish between a genuine shopper being slow around stores or having a lot to do and someone taking the pee and using the car park for free parking while they go to work or whatever.

If you have a lot of things to do and you want lunch etc then 2 hours is completely inadequate but there is no method to pay for extra time in most of the car parks anyway. Are you supposed to dick about driving off the retail park and returning, re-parking every 1h 59 minutes or just go home at your 1h 59 minutes and come back another day because you can't run around like a blue arsed fly to get everything done?

I've yet to see a limited free parking car park with pay and display machines for buying extra time. If there is no method for paying for an over stay and you can't do what you came to do in the time then that leaves the option of boycotting all these places with these systems.

The retail shop owners have a choice about how they implement these systems. They could make it a 4 hour limited stay. They could just leave a note on cars with a simple way of paying a nominal fee. Provide ticketing machines for extra time. There are so many solutions that don't involve annoying potential paying customers.
 
Davec223 said:
And it is retail park car parks I park in, as I say average of 5 a day 5 days a week,
Click to expand...
When I read that I thought you had some sort of free parking cunning scheme where you pop out the office every few hours to move the car to another free car park :lol:
 
TopBanana said:
When I read that I thought you had some sort of free parking cunning scheme where you pop out the office every few hours to move the car to another free car park :lol:
Click to expand...

No I don't, lol, just my job involves servicing customers on retail parks.
 
I can see arguments for/against enforcement in retail car parks, especially those that are near say a train station which get full of commuters before the shops are even open.

My gripe is with genuine shoppers being penalised for minor infringements. In the example of a "free" car park with a time limit, it would be relatively easy to prove that someone has/hasn't been using the shops if they overstay the alloted time. In those circumstances the parking firm should review any CCTV footage, see person entering/leaving shops and cancel the invoice there and then. Or even simply producing a receipt from one of the shops?

Common sense would prevail however in my experience of these "enforcement" people there is a clear lack of it and "rules is rules"
 
Common sense is the key here. Like I said earlier, chat to the manger if there's an issue with a ticket (do it politely and calmly, you get a much better response :)) If this fails write to their head office and explain you purchased goods and can supply a receipt and would like charge cancelled, simple.
This is all a moot point really if you're not going to pay anyway :shrug:
 
I found a politely worded email to my local mp did the trick. He contacted the company who quashed the ticket in days and not one letter came through my door :)
 
I have a lot of time and sympathy for the small business/flat owners etc who's land is used by people as an alternative to paid parking. And and doing so cause considerable hassle to the legitimate users of that land.

I've far less sympathy for the retail park moaning about people parking in the car park they provide for free, doing exactly what that car park is for and using it while they go shopping and maybe spending slightly longer spending money
 
boyfalldown said:
I have a lot of time and sympathy for the small business/flat owners etc who's land is used by people as an alternative to paid parking. And and doing so cause considerable hassle to the legitimate users of that land.

I've far less sympathy for the retail park moaning about people parking in the car park they provide for free, doing exactly what that car park is for and using it while they go shopping and maybe spending slightly longer spending money
Click to expand...

Sorry Hugh, but I think that's where we're getting mixed up here. Retail parks do not provide a car park for free. They provide an area to park whilst shopping in the stores on the park. Landlords could charge for this but realise the pitfalls of doing so, so they subsidise the cost for a limited time.
I realise this is all semantics and there is no legal need to pay but very few people, in my experience, get tickets for no reason. The argument I absolutely agree with is the need for challenging the process if you have been unjustly charged and this needs addressing.
 
Phil1974 said:
Common sense is the key here. Like I said earlier, chat to the manger if there's an issue with a ticket (do it politely and calmly, you get a much better response :)) If this fails write to their head office and explain you purchased goods and can supply a receipt and would like charge cancelled, simple.
This is all a moot point really if you're not going to pay anyway :shrug:
Click to expand...

In the case of my mate and his missus he asked for the manager and said can you help me, asked him to help with the ticket - the reply was not our car park pal....so he wasnt rude or anything - then he got the kitchen printout and showed the manager he had been in the store for the time choosing a kitchen But as he would not assist he would not be benefiting from his purchase of a kitchen and took his business elsewhere.

As a manager would you have helped anyway:shrug: or after you saw what you as a manager would be loosing as turnover for the business. and IF the later how does that pan out with a customer...I would be thinking, mmm 9k kitchen and if a problem my recourse is with this man...

Honor is a rare thing these days, I cherish it when I am showed it and strive for it in my own life and in how I deal with others, as best I can

I'm not perfect though not by a long shot.


PPC's if honorable would have a legitimate appeals process - as they dont and the government know it POPLA was set up - sad fact is its run by BPA members or ex members AFAIK and so is not fit for purpose.


O well.....
 
LASTOLITE said:
In the case of my mate and his missus he asked for the manager and said can you help me, asked him to help with the ticket - the reply was not our car park pal....so he wasnt rude or anything - then he got the kitchen printout and showed the manager he had been in the store for the time choosing a kitchen But as he would not assist he would not be benefiting from his purchase of a kitchen and took his business elsewhere.

As a manager would you have helped anyway:shrug: or after you saw what you as a manager would be loosing as turnover for the business. and IF the later how does that pan out with a customer...I would be thinking, mmm 9k kitchen and if a problem my recourse is with this man...

Honor is a rare thing these days, I cherish it when I am showed it and strive for it in my own life and in how I deal with others, as best I can

I'm not perfect though not by a long shot.

PPC's if honorable would have a legitimate appeals process - as they dont and the government know it POPLA was set up - sad fact is its run by BPA members or ex members AFAIK and so is not fit for purpose.

O well.....
Click to expand...

I work in exactly the sort of business you describe (large DIY store with kitchen and bathroom business). We ensure we take a note of these customers car registrations and add them to our exempt list so this situation does not occur. The manager you describe does seem naive and unhelpful and there are plenty of them around but in the main there are processes that will avoid the situation you describe.
 
Amazing that the manager didn't say "it's not my car park... but I'll knock the amount of the ticket off the £9000 bill you're leaving my shop with"
 
TopBanana said:
Amazing that the manager didn't say "it's not my car park... but I'll knock the amount of the ticket off the £9000 bill you're leaving my shop with"
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
It's quite a simple solution really. Charge on exit.

Drive in get a ticket, drive out present ticket and pay for time spent in car park. Easy.
Worked in SA. I never had to worry about having parking change, parked as long as I needed and paid for as long as I'd used.

Why can't a so called first world country do the same?
 
ecoleman said:
It's quite a simple solution really. Charge on exit.

Drive in get a ticket, drive out present ticket and pay for time spent in car park. Easy.
Worked in SA. I never had to worry about having parking change, parked as long as I needed and paid for as long as I'd used.

Why can't a so called first world country do the same?
Click to expand...


All for this - I am not unhappy paying for parking at all

:thumbs:Because that's fair and square - that's not what its about here, the PPC is actively looking to give the driver a good kicking in the wallet.



Phil - that's proactive and reassuring - maybe it should be rolled out for ALL customers across the chain you work for:thumbs: In similar circumstances.
 
I too have received an invoice from one of these companies after genuinely using the facilities the car park was provided for. I didn't pay and got lots of very nice letters that I just ignored.

I think the solution might lie with the councils. The councils need money and the retailers want their car parks used only by customers. So, the retailers pay the money they give to the PPC's to the councils instead who then warden their car parks for them.

The councils DO have a proper appeals system in place and I'm sure in 2013 there is some simple way of allowing store managers to put exemptions on customer's vehicles instantly when they are going to go over the allotted time due to extended shopping and therefore not having to go through an appeals system.

The councils get extra revenue and the PPC's get stopped from profiteering. I don't see why residents with private parking issues couldn't use it either.
 
I wish someone would invent an oyster style card that could be used in any car park across the country. It's such a pain trying to find change when it would be better to waft a card at a machine and either get a ticket on the way in or waft it on the way out.
 
onomatopoeia said:
What the petition proposes is basically totally unregulated use of private land for parking with no recourse for the landowner.
Click to expand...

Not read the petition, but logic dictates the landowner has recourse by simply installing a barrier/ticket system, which can still permit free parking for a maximum of 2 hours or whatever their limit is, with charges for staying longer.
 
ecoleman said:
It's quite a simple solution really. Charge on exit.

Drive in get a ticket, drive out present ticket and pay for time spent in car park. Easy.
Worked in SA. I never had to worry about having parking change, parked as long as I needed and paid for as long as I'd used.

Why can't a so called first world country do the same?
Click to expand...

It does work pretty well in SA. As you'll know, some malls have free open parking and paid covered parking, or give you free parking for an hour or two.

Of course, the fun starts in a busy mall like Sandton City when someone gets a misread at the exit, or the system goes vrot and we sit in the queue hooting constantly, because we all know that'll sort the problem out!
 
LASTOLITE said:
Honour is a rare thing these days, I cherish it when I am shown it and strive for it in my own life and in how I deal with others, as best I can

I'm not perfect though not by a long shot.
Click to expand...

You can say that again. :lol:
 
There's at least one shopping area here with a very good scheme. It charges £1 for up to 2 hours (and more for longer, obviously!) and there's a counterfoil which gains you a refund of the parking charge in at least one of the shops when you spend over a tenner. Free parking for genuine customers and other parkers pay.
 
Nod said:
There's at least one shopping area here with a very good scheme. It charges £1 for up to 2 hours (and more for longer, obviously!) and there's a counterfoil which gains you a refund of the parking charge in at least one of the shops when you spend over a tenner. Free parking for genuine customers and other parkers pay.
Click to expand...

That seems to be a perfect system. A branch of Morissons had a similar system here when it was built a few years ago but now they have a crazy system. There is a barrier at the entrance where you have to queue up to take a ticket to get the barrier to open. Then when you leave, there is never anyone in the kiosk so you drive straight out.

The last time I remember anyone checking tickets at the exit was about fifteen years ago. Then if you showed a receipt you got out for free regardless of how long you were parked.


Steve.
 
Last edited:
I'm not going to get into the morals of not paying for parking, but at the end of the day these companies are used generally by commercial organisations who's only goal is to make as much money as possible. As such, you can't compare this to parking on a private individuals land or driveway.

As a side note, my GF was phoned by a ferry company to say there was an urgent package for her at the port that had just come off a ferry and could she come to collect it. She went in, parked in front of their office collected the package and left within 5 minutes, only she didn't pay to 'park' as she wasnt staying or "parking" in the traditional sense. Needless to say one of these scam company's then wrote to her with a pic of her car trying to charge her £100 for the privilege of passing through ( at the request of the landowner no less!)

Needless to say it went in the bin.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top