PRIVATE PARKING TICKETS DONT PAY THEM and SIGN THE E-PETITION PLEASE

LASTOLITE

LASTOLITE

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Bill
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Hi all - Yes I know nowt to do with you? well yes I agree until you are the recipient of a ticket for 90 notes for staying in a McD's car park for 1 second over the allotted tome:bang: OR visited an ANPR equiped car park twice in one day and the Car Park Co decide to use the IN of the first visit and the OUT of the second visit:bang: OR you have a wheel on a white line in between two bays :bang: or some other ridiculous scam reason for issuing a 150, 90 or whatever £££ charge they see fit to try and extort out of you.


DONT PAY THEM:bat:

PLEASE SIGN THE E-PETITION HERE:

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44858



FOR MORE INFO ON THIS SEE THE Money Saving Expert website here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163


See the BBC WATCHDOG ADVISE ON THIS HERE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA


Please note from 1st oct 2012 changes to the law mean that the Registered Keeper is now "liable" if the driver is not named - But Dont pay still applies.



PLEASE NOTE - This is not my E-PETITION But one that was posted on the Martin Lewis website. I know it does not have the literary finesse many would like - but please see past that IF you can.

Thanks
 
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Simply don't pay it. Unless issued by the police, or a local council parking enforcement officer it is not a fine, it is a speculative invoice. Write to them politely declining thier invoice then put it in a drawer. Each time they contact you, send the same letter.
 
I used to park in a Lidl car park regular & i used to get invoices sent to me demanding payment for fines.
I used to phone on a regular basis,it,s me again i am not paying goodbye,it,s me again not paying,it,s me again,i never ever paid them a penny.:):lol::D
 
Please take a few mins and sign the E-PETITION.....:thumbs:
 
Has an E-petition ever resulted in a successful conclusion?
 
neil_g said:
why? just throw the letters in the bin.
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Better off keeping them, and all other correspondence related (and there will be some), in a drawer.
 
I've had plenty before. Just ignore them.

They can take you to court for the amount of money it would have cost you to park there for your overstay (I.e. pence) but that's all they can do.
 
Indeed, everyone has the absolute right to park on private land any time they want, for as long as they want. The land owners should of course have no mechanism for redress.

Or perhaps not. Anyone remember a topic on here where the public were using the allocated residents spaces under a city centre block of flats to avoid paying in the local car park?
 
petition said:
The government should stop the DVLA selling our vehicle information to private parking companies (PPC's) like Civil Enforcement Ltd who fine motorists with extortionate fee's (£75 fee within 14 days or £150 after) and threaten you with debt collectors and further fee’s.
Further to this, DVLA could be encouraging theft by selling the location of some rare and desirable vehicles.
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Is the petitioner suggesting that they should be able to park on private land with impunity now that clamping and towing on private land is outlawed? Or would they like to see clamping and towing re-introduced?

The petitioner makes no alternative suggestions for dealing with parking on private land where the landowner does not give consent, or outside the terms for which the landowner does consent. If he gets the signatures and the debate and parliament legislates to re-introduce clamping and towing, will he be happy?
 
onomatopoeia said:
Indeed, everyone has the absolute right to park on private land any time they want, for as long as they want. The land owners should of course have no mechanism for redress.

Or perhaps not. Anyone remember a topic on here where the public were using the allocated residents spaces under a city centre block of flats to avoid paying in the local car park?
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I'm not sure anyone here is suggesting that. But I suspect many many tickets issued by the uniformed little blow-hards employed by said parking companies, are done so spuriously, and for no other reason than to achieve targets. Mine was one such ticket, and the company was told rather smartly to place thier invoice in a rather dark orifice.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Is the petitioner suggesting that they should be able to park on private land with impunity now that clamping and towing on private land is outlawed? Or would they like to see clamping and towing re-introduced?

The petitioner makes no alternative suggestions for dealing with parking on private land where the landowner does not give consent, or outside the terms for which the landowner does consent. If he gets the signatures and the debate and parliament legislates to re-introduce clamping and towing, will he be happy?
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Frankly, I have more chance of becoming Pope than that petition does of getting the 100,000 names required for consideration for a debate.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Is the petitioner suggesting that they should be able to park on private land with impunity now that clamping and towing on private land is outlawed? Or would they like to see clamping and towing re-introduced?

The petitioner makes no alternative suggestions for dealing with parking on private land where the landowner does not give consent, or outside the terms for which the landowner does consent. If he gets the signatures and the debate and parliament legislates to re-introduce clamping and towing, will he be happy?
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Have you ever been clamped in a private car park or had a ticket from a PPC?
 
onomatopoeia said:
Indeed, everyone has the absolute right to park on private land any time they want, for as long as they want. The land owners should of course have no mechanism for redress.

Or perhaps not. Anyone remember a topic on here where the public were using the allocated residents spaces under a city centre block of flats to avoid paying in the local car park?
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NOPE

AND NOT THE SAME THING

PPC are operating in LARGE FREE TO PARK retail outlets thats is the issue, not ABUSE of private spaces for residents - read the MSE website there are plenty of people WITH RESIDENT PERMITS getting tickets too:shrug::thinking::bang:
 
I agree with the sentiment, but the wording of the petition is lacking. I can't sign that.
 
LASTOLITE said:
PPC are operating in LARGE FREE TO PARK retail outlets thats is the issue, not ABUSE of private spaces for residents
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You are conflating problems with enforcement with the principle of parking on private land without consent.

By using "FREE TO PARK" you are incorrectly implying that the car parks in retail outlets are fee free under all circumstances. This is not true. Usually they are fee free for a limited period if parked within a marked bay. The fee for exceeding the free period is generally quite high, but if people don't want to be charged that fee then they of course should not stay longer than they are allowed to for free or otherwise breach the conditions required for free parking.

If I park in a normal pay car park and the fees are:

up to 1 hour : £1
up to 2 hours : £2
over 2 hours : £100

I'm making damn sure I'm back and out before two hours are up and if I'm not I'm expecting to pay £100 to get out of the car park. However people seem to think that if the fee for up to 2 hours is £0, then so should the fee for over 2 hours be £0. Why?
 
LASTOLITE said:
...............

PPC are operating in LARGE FREE TO PARK retail outlets thats is the issue...........
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Wrong, totally wrong.

They're operating in private car parks, made available by businesses for the convenience of their customers under certain conditions.
 
It's illogical to think that the next lot of 2 hours is suddenly 50 x more valuable than the previous 2. Free parking for 2 hours then showing rates similar to paid car parks seems more logical to me.

If you offer something for free you are saying it has no monetary value. You cannot suddenly claim after a specific period what was free is suddenly worth a fortune.

Many of the PPC cases have been over turned for that very reason. Also if the car park isn't full then there's zero loss to that space being occupied.

Parking on private land where isn't specifically allowed is another matter entirely.
 
srichards said:
If you offer something for free you are saying it has no monetary value. You cannot suddenly claim after a specific period what was free is suddenly worth a fortune.
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I disagree - providing a service on a limited basis for free does not entitle anyone to that service indefinitely for free. Else if I ever need to engage a solicitor for something, after the free 30 minute initial consultation they all offer ends, I don't think me arguing that as their first half hour had no value, nor should any of the rest of their time.

I have no problem with someone offering a service charging whatever they like for it, even if they chose a charging structure which superficially makes no sense.

Imagine a retail outlet in the Surrey commuter belt, near a train station serving central London. The retailers may well wish to encourage shoppers by offering limited free parking, they are very unlikely to wish to encourage commuters to fill up their car park for the whole day while they are at work. The parking has value, but they elect to subsidise the cost of providing it on a limited basis to benefit their business. That doesn't mean they should be required to subsidise it on an unlimited basis.
 
onomatopoeia said:
I'm making damn sure I'm back and out before two hours are up and if I'm not I'm expecting to pay £100 to get out of the car park.
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If you are not clamped or locked in then you can get out for free.

onomatopoeia said:
However people seem to think that if the fee for up to 2 hours is £0, then so should the fee for over 2 hours be £0. Why?
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They can think what they like. The fact is that unless it is a proper fine from a council or a police parking attendant, you have no legal obligation to pay.

The private parking companies work on the premise that by parking there, you have entered into a contract which allows them to fine you if you outstay your welcome.

This falls down on two points:

1. It's not a contract as you haven't paid anything for the privilege (called consideration in legal terms).

2. They are assuming that you have read their terms and conditions for parking. You quite possibly might have missed the sign on your way in - if there was one there.

These parking charges are not fines and for that reason, they are not allowed to use the word fine in their documentation. They make them look official and sometimes even mention DVLA in a way that makes you think there is some connection.

Whilst I have some sympathy with private land owners who have a problem with people who take advantage of an empty piece of land and park there, I have none with national chains of superstores who employ parking companies to hand out tickets to people who have had the audacity to spend a little bit too long buying stuff in their shop.

Don't pay them, just ignore them.


Steve.
 
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I'm with Mark on this one. I manage a store in London that offers free parking for customers for 90 minutes, anything over that and it's a £90 penalty charge. Signs are perfectly clear on this point and visible from everywhere. However, if a genuine customer has stayed longer than 90 minutes and can prove, by way of a receipt, that they were in the store we will cancel the notice.
This is the only way to regulate parking in many areas.
Too many people like to rage against the establishment but the rules are quite simple in most circumstances.
 
Phil1974 said:
but the rules are quite simple in most circumstances.
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The rules are very simple and you are well within your rights to issue a parking charge. But the law is equally clear and the recipient has no legal obligation to pay.


Steve.
 
Phil1974 said:
I'm with Mark on this one. I manage a store in London that offers free parking for customers for 90 minutes, anything over that and it's a £90 penalty charge. Signs are perfectly clear on this point and visible from everywhere. However, if a genuine customer has stayed longer than 90 minutes and can prove, by way of a receipt, that they were in the store we will cancel the notice.
This is the only way to regulate parking in many areas.
Too many people like to rage against the establishment but the rules are quite simple in most circumstances.
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My objection is not about rage against the establishment AT ALL and in your case outlined above IF PPC's where as fair as you are then fine by me....the issue is their appeals process is NONE EXISTENT and the actual store managers either have no recourse or wont help as they generally say "The car park is not ours"


Look people before you take this all out of context - there is a nasty infestation creeping into car parks across the country and its in the form of the PPC - You would be wise to not ignore it.
 
I think we are going to see more of this now that private parking companies cannot clamp vehicles on private land.


Steve.
 
I park in private car parks everyday for work, upto 5 different car parks a day, in the last 8 years I have only had on fine and that was my own fault went over the time, though I was working in the store who's car park it wa I just sacked it up and paid it, I parked in thier car park mucked up stayed longer than I should have so paid the fine.
 
Steve Smith said:
I think we are going to see more of this now that private parking companies cannot clamp vehicles on private land.


Steve.
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Steve your not wrong....its all kicked off since then

Mate of mine has just had a ticket cancelled - he was at a retail park choosing a kitchen - came out to a ticket for overstay of 30 mins - spoke to attendant who just laughed at him....Goes back into store asked for manager who said not our car park.....mmm he thought.....went over to see kitchen guy and said call up my order and print it off 9000 quid for his full kitchen, went back over to manager and handed him the print out and said - I wont be getting this from you, why sir? he asked ......My mate said while I was choosing it I received a ticket on my car....:shrug:

Are retail managers thick - Allowing a POXY private parking company alienate his customers.....did my mate buy his kitchen...nope not from them, he did have the ticket cancelled though...contacted the LAND OWNER and asked for the agreement between them and the PPC for taking legal action on their behalf - document did not exist - so PPC had insufficient interest in the land to form a legally binding contract with anyone They were also in breach of the BPA COP and the Land owner was a huge insurance co so ther last thing they wanted was the CEO in SCC for 90 notes.

Headline

THE DEMISE OF THE RETAIL PARK IN THE UK.

AMAZON SHARES ROCKET as more and more people shop on line.



Just when the retailers desperately need income genuine customers are having yet another hurdle put in front of them in the form of PPC's -
 
LASTOLITE said:
Steve your not wrong....its all kicked off since then

Mate of mine has just had a ticket cancelled - he was at a retail park choosing a kitchen - came out to a ticket for overstay of 30 mins - spoke to attendant who just laughed at him....Goes back into store asked for manager who said not our car park.....mmm he thought.....went over to see kitchen guy and said call up my order and print it off 9000 quid for his full kitchen, went back over to manager and handed him the print out and said - I wont be getting this from you, why sir? he asked ......My mate said while I was choosing it I received a ticket on my car....:shrug:

Are retail managers thick - Allowing a POXY private parking company alienate his customers.....did my mate buy his kitchen...nope not from them, he did have the ticket cancelled though...contacted the LAND OWNER and asked for the agreement between them and the PPC for taking legal action on their behalf - document did not exist - so PPC had insufficient interest in the land to form a legally binding contract with anyone They were also in breach of the BPA COP and the Land owner was a huge insurance co so ther last thing they wanted was the CEO in SCC for 90 notes.

Headline

THE DEMISE OF THE RETAIL PARK IN THE UK.

AMAZON SHARES ROCKET as more and more people shop on line.

Just when the retailers desperately need income genuine customers are having yet another hurdle put in front of them in the form of PPC's -
Click to expand...

And it is retail park car parks I park in, as I say average of 5 a day 5 days a week, if it is such an infestation as you claim, why have I not had any issues, as I said I have had 1 which was my fault. Going by what you are saying I should have many, not just the one I have had in 8 years.
 
And it is retail park car parks I park in, as I say average of 5 a day 5 days a week, if it is such an infestation as you claim, why have I not had any issues, as I said I have had 1 which was my fault. Going by what you are saying I should have many, not just the one I have had in 8 years.
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Well as long as you are happy with giving a PPC 90 quid - or was that 55 because you got a discount......:wave:

I think it was because you thought it was a legitimate parking Ticket and not just a speculative Invoice. The PPC business model relies on people like yourself who think its their own fault and just pay up.
 
LASTOLITE said:
Well as long as you are happy with giving a PPC 90 quid - or was that 55 because you got a discount......:wave:

I think it was because you thought it was a legitimate parking Ticket and not just a speculative Invoice. The PPC business model relies on people like yourself who think its their own fault and just pay up.
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No I knew exactly what it was, unfortunately I didn't get a discount as it went through the car lease firm first, who put a £30 admin fee on top of it, tbh I was more pee'd at that than the fine. As the car park was managed by a ppc for the I did not have an issue.

Just to turn it round a bit, playing Devils advocate, how would you feel if some one parked on your drive, garden, parking space all day while they went to work, I am sure you would get feed up very quickly, as I see it, this is no different.
 
Davec223 said:
Just to turn it round a bit, playing Devils advocate, how would you feel if some one parked on your drive, garden, parking space all day while they went to work, I am sure you would get feed up very quickly, as I see it, this is no different.
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It's not the same as you don't invite people to park on your drive or garden.

An excess fee would be acceptable if it was no more than the normal hourly rate you would expect to pay at a real car park which charges by the hour but a £50 parking charge is not acceptable in a car park where you are invited to come in and park for free whilst you spend money in their shop.

However, if someone did park on your drive or garden, you are well within your rights to issue them with a parking charge... and they are well within theirs not to pay it!


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
It's not the same as you don't invite people to park on your drive or garden.

An excess fee would be acceptable if it was no more than the normal hourly rate you would expect to pay at a real car park which charges by the hour but a £50 parking charge is not acceptable in a car park where you are invited to come in and park for free whilst you spend money in their shop.
Steve.
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Sorry still private land, makes no difference if they have offered free parking for 2 hours, there are always signs up which state iirc by parking you agree to the terms and conditions as per the signs which includes the amount of time you can park for.

Also any car park that you pay for also have similar fines if you overstay.

Edit I should have said pay and display car parks
 
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LASTOLITE said:
Steve your not wrong....its all kicked off since then

Mate of mine has just had a ticket cancelled - he was at a retail park choosing a kitchen - came out to a ticket for overstay of 30 mins - spoke to attendant who just laughed at him....Goes back into store asked for manager who said not our car park.....mmm he thought.....went over to see kitchen guy and said call up my order and print it off 9000 quid for his full kitchen, went back over to manager and handed him the print out and said - I wont be getting this from you, why sir? he asked ......My mate said while I was choosing it I received a ticket on my car....:shrug:

Are retail managers thick - Allowing a POXY private parking company alienate his customers.....did my mate buy his kitchen...nope not from them, he did have the ticket cancelled though...contacted the LAND OWNER and asked for the agreement between them and the PPC for taking legal action on their behalf - document did not exist - so PPC had insufficient interest in the land to form a legally binding contract with anyone They were also in breach of the BPA COP and the Land owner was a huge insurance co so ther last thing they wanted was the CEO in SCC for 90 notes.

Headline

THE DEMISE OF THE RETAIL PARK IN THE UK.

AMAZON SHARES ROCKET as more and more people shop on line.

Just when the retailers desperately need income genuine customers are having yet another hurdle put in front of them in the form of PPC's -
Click to expand...

No Bill, we retail managers are not thick! However, most are on running stores on retail parks over which they have no control. Our parking control company works with us, as I'm sure many do, and will cancel charges when asked. I'm sure if your friend had been reasonable this would have been remedied, if not a quick letter to the companies head office would have sorted the issue.
The reality is that a the majority of people who receive fines/charges for any sort of parking offence have failed to read, or choose to ignore, relevant signage or are not using the area to shop in the stores they are designed for. They then like to bleat about it to anyone who'll listen. I've been driving/parking for 20 years and have only received one parking fine for being a wally and parking on a yellow line!
 
Steve Smith said:
Whilst I have some sympathy with private land owners who have a problem with people who take advantage of an empty piece of land and park there, I have none with national chains of superstores who employ parking companies to hand out tickets to people who have had the audacity to spend a little bit too long buying stuff in their shop.
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Whereas I have trouble with the whole "I want something for nothing" culture which seems to pervade British society nowadays, evidenced in this case by people wanting to park for an unlimited time on private land for nothing, against the landowners' clearly expressed wishes.

How about the audacity of commuters leaving their cars in retail centre car parks all day while they take the train to work? They aren't buying anything. Or is that OK as well and any "speculative invoice" from the landowner should be ignored?

How about the audacity of shoppers leaving their cars in residential car parks near city centres so the tennants/owners can't park in their own spaces? Should these people also ignore the speculative invoices sent by PPCs?

The legal solution has to fit all of these situations. You and others are considering one instance (shoppers overstaying the permitted free period in retail centre car parks) while ignoring other situations which are governed by the same laws.

Present a solution that protects everyone, landowner, car park users, retailer. What the petition proposes is basically totally unregulated use of private land for parking with no recourse for the landowner.
 
Phil1974 said:
No Bill, we retail managers are not thick! However, most are on running stores on retail parks over which they have no control. Our parking control company works with us, as I'm sure many do, and will cancel charges when asked. I'm sure if your friend had been reasonable this would have been remedied, if not a quick letter to the companies head office would have sorted the issue.
The reality is that a the majority of people who receive fines/charges for any sort of parking offence have failed to read, or choose to ignore, relevant signage or are not using the area to shop in the stores they are designed for. They then like to bleat about it to anyone who'll listen. I've been driving/parking for 20 years and have only received one parking fine for being a wally and parking on a yellow line!
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Excellent post, as you say it's amazing that people think they are hard done by when they get caught flouting advertised parking limits.
 
onomatopoeia said:
You and others are considering one instance (shoppers overstaying the permitted free period in retail centre car parks) while ignoring other situations which are governed by the same laws.

Present a solution that protects everyone, landowner, car park users, retailer. What the petition proposes is basically totally unregulated use of private land for parking with no recourse for the landowner.
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It's true that I am only really considering that scenario.

I am also only responding to it with regards to the legality of issuing parking charge letters and the obligation to pay them.

I have made no comment on the right or wrong of it other than suggesting that a £50 charge is excessive for what would probably only amount to £2 for a few hours parking.

A fair and balanced system would allow private land owners to present people who have parked in excess of their allowed time with a parking charge which they are legally obligated to pay which is equal to a 'normal' charge for such a length of time. i.e. to mitigate their loss rather than profit from a one off £50 or £90 fee.


Steve.
 
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Steve Smith said:
It's true that I am only really considering that scenario.

I am also only responding to it with regards to the legality of issuing parking charge letters and the obligation to pay them.

I have made no comment on the right or wrong of it other than suggesting that a £50 charge is excessive for what would probably only amount to £2 for a few hours parking.

A fair and balanced system would allow private land owners to present people who have parked in excess of their allowed time with a parking charge which they are legally obligated to pay which is equal to a 'normal' charge for such a length of time. i.e. to mitigate their loss rather than profit from a one off £50 or £90 fee.

Steve.
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But why should it equate to a normal parking charge? It's not a public car park, it's private land. You always pay more to go private (schools, healthcare). Where is the deterrent to not overstay if you're only going to be charged £1.50 or whatever?
 
Because only the police and the council have the legal right to issue fines. A private company can only seek remedies to mitigate their loss. That would have to be shown to be relative to a reasonable charge for parking.


Steve.
 
They may also only issue one ticket a day so £50-£90 isn't really making them millionaires is it? Especially if people don't pay it.
 
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