Printers and printing papers..?

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stevewestern

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So what do you know about different papers ?
I will be starting off using an inkjet to print, and have only ever used 'standard' papers - normally Epson to suit my printer, but I fancy the idea of getting a printer purely for black and white, and trying some 'fine art' paper (what does fine art mean ?)
So, what experience do you have of these things ?
 
From my experience Epson paper on an Epson printer is the best option - I've tried several others but never been 100% happy with the results.

Regarding B&W I believe that many injet printers don't do too well here - maybe post your model number so others can comment ?

simon
 
Well, I have an Epson R220 at present, but am wondering what might be good to devote to just B/W..
 
steveinspain said:
Well, I have an Epson R220 at present, but am wondering what might be good to devote to just B/W..
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Coincidentally I use the R220 too - great printer for colour, as I mentioned personally I'm much happier with the original "premium glossy" paper than any other.

I've also tried several different inks, most of which were not nearly as good as the original either. However I recently tried Jettec & find them excellent, I use these exclusively.

For B&W printing the R220 is o.k but I don't think it's the best - I've read good things about the Canon IP4500, has 2 B&W catridges - here's a link...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Premi...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1202404981&sr=8-1

simon
 
Some suffer from 'gassing' more than others

Some are 'nanoporous'
 
Now I thought that 'gassing' was something that affected elderly people after over-eating, but clearly not - can you please explain dcash29 ?
 
...
 
Atmospheric pollutants, especially ozone, can cause severe image degradation with some unprotected prints. This phenomenon, often known as gas fade is primarily, but not only, associated with dye images on nanoporous papers.
 
Speaking as someone who doesn't print many images to inkjets in RGB, but I am in the print industry... maybe the way to go is to convert your images to CYMK, for B/Ws' just use the black and cyan channels, ie, black at 100% and cyan at around about 40%, does depend on your printer & ink though, but a little experimentation might yield results.
The problem with RGB convertions to CYMK which happens without you realising it is that they can be hit and miss. Best to try and control just two colours, btw, cyan is included to add a bit more body & depth.
Speaking from experience when a customer supplies a PDF of a page if all the images aren't converted in say Photoshop to CYMK our RIP's convert as a default and their far from perfect...think about it...you haven't got red, green and blue inks in your printer!

Might be worth some consideration.

Regards
Tim
 
Timc said:
Speaking as someone who doesn't print many images to inkjets in RGB, but I am in the print industry... maybe the way to go is to convert your images to CYMK, for B/Ws' just use the black and cyan channels, ie, black at 100% and cyan at around about 40%, does depend on your printer & ink though, but a little experimentation might yield results.
The problem with RGB convertions to CYMK which happens without you realising it is that they can be hit and miss. Best to try and control just two colours, btw, cyan is included to add a bit more body & depth.
Speaking from experience when a customer supplies a PDF of a page if all the images aren't converted in say Photoshop to CYMK our RIP's convert as a default and their far from perfect...think about it...you haven't got red, green and blue inks in your printer!

Might be worth some consideration.

Regards
Tim
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that seems like a great bit of advice, and definitely something to look into....thanks Tim :thumbs:
 
shifting to cameras and equipment :) Although it might be better in Processing :shrug: :p
 
steveinspain said:
No ideas about 'fine art' papers anyone..?
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The trouble with trying out all the great fine art papers that are made for ink jets is it's so hard to know you're seeing them at their best.

Firstly you need to get the printer profiled for each and every paper you want to try and then you need to make sure that you're using inks that the paper responds well to.

It's not like darkroom stuff at all, where you could mix and match with ease.

If you're really serious about getting into fine art b&w inkjetting, I would pick a printer that can a run a Lyson black ink CIS system and stick with Lyson papers too.

It will cost far more than a complete darkroom set up and never be quite as good but it might just manage something that looks quite alot like it did on screen.;)
 
Thanks Dazzijl - some food for thought...
As you may have read (well, I do bang on about me a lot here..) I am just starting out with film, and B/W, so am keen to get it right..
Sounds like I ought to contact Lyson about this and see what they say..
Maybe a wet darkroom is the way to go, but at present it might be easier to use inkjet - seems that you are saying that wet printing is just so much better though....
 
seems that you are saying that wet printing is just so much better though....
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In the two finest words of the king.... uh huh. ;)

Not only does a wet print produce better results than you can get from an inkjet but you simply cannot factor out the way you'll feel about a print you've made with your bare hands.
 
Fine art printing is as much about the image as it is about the print. Just changing to a to a fiber based paper rather than the normal glossy doesn't make it fine art.

The problem ,particularly with B&W most printers only have one black ink. High End printers such as the Epson 2400 have 3, plus you need a separate, "Black" for either normal or Matt fiber based papers. It's all to do with the Dmax the paper can produce, as a result of its design.

There is a whole range of different paper surfaces you can try different weights, finishes etc, Best thing is to get hold of some sample packs and find the paper you like. Don't be surprised if at the end you find only 2 or 3 you prefer. PermaJet I know do sample packs. OK it's not free, but it does give you an idea of what is availble
 
In 25 years or so as a working photographer I never made a print outside college.

Always got that nice man with the darkroom or a reliable minilab to do it.

I print virtually all my work now on inkjets at home.

I have one for gloss photographs in colour and am in the process of acquiring a second one specifically for matte/ arty stuff.

I've just looked at an A3 print through my glass and can find no banding, no not just no banding just nothing other than accurate colour, beautiful gloss - Oh just damned GOOD Stuff.

I've had test prints done to identify the next machine and am now confident it too will prove just as good at the matte stuff.

My point.

Pick a printer for what it can do,not for what it might be capable of. The matte printer concerned has three grays and two blacks / but is rubbish at gloss colour.

The modern inkjet is as good as I used to get for what I do and I get real buzz from 'doing it myself'.

Probably haven't put this very well. Sorry about that.

Basically desktop printing can be a really satisfying way to produce an end product - a picture if you choose carefully and put the work in.
 
If you require better mono prints from your inkjet have a profile made, plus have your monitor calibrated and remember the light source you view your prints in has to be the correct temp. together with the room lighting for your monitor.

Tim, tell me more....what happens to all the other information in the yellow and magenta channel?

David
 
and remember the light source you view your prints in has to be the correct temp
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That's really getting into the realms of color matching, which I'm sure will come as no surprise is of little importance in the world of black and white. ;)

I think I get what Steve is looking for here. He's dipping a toe into shooting 120 b&w and wants the images made to look great in print. A darkroom is still probably the most cost effective way of producing fabulous results. It's also more time consuming than hitting "print" and going off to make a coffee to sound of zzzzzzzzzzzp..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzp....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzp.

It's about what meets your individual needs. If the print is the last stage before you can invoice, hell yes, hit that print button.
 
Depends how your print driver works
Dazz... are you saying that the viewing light doesnt matter for a B & W print out of an inkjet??

The most cost effective/colour matched way he can do his prints is upload to a printing house
 
Dazz... are you saying that the viewing light doesnt matter for a B & W print out of an inkjet??
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Well more that the temp of the light isn't going to be changing any colour in a B&W print. :)
 
Dazz if your inkjet uses its colour (CMY etc ) to print the b & W the light source will alter the cast of the print
 
Just got myself the Epson R2400 (3 black cartridges)really impressed so far
 
dcash29 said:
Dazz if your inkjet uses its colour (CMY etc ) to print the b & W the light source will alter the cast of the print
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Ahhh, gottcha. :)

I've found that even with a pretty well profiled printer (because of course they drift the whole time anyway) it's a nightmare chasing colour casts round b&w prints with CMYK inks.

That's exactly why I was suggesting a Lyson CIS system using a set of black inks. See, we're on exactly the same page dcash. :)
 
Hi Dazzajl, regarding the M & Y channels, what I should have infered is that you should make a 4 colour b/w conversion first and then just use the K & C channels, yellow and mag shouldn't contain much infomation at this stage, at home at the moment so wait till I get to work Monday and I'll have a look in greater detail!

Tim
 
That's exactly why I was suggesting a Lyson CIS system using a set of black inks. See, we're on exactly the same page dcash.
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Dazz i'm using third party ink cartridges with an eight colour Canon i9950 i dont chase colour casts.

Tim...Are you working on PC? which way are you suggesting to convert to B & W and still keep control over your image

Customers Tim....they like to dabble dont they

David
 
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